Is it that much cheaper to train in the US?

[TJF97]

Scameron77,
Initially I've set myself a goal of just obtaining a PPL. I'm not sure if I'm going to take it any further after that, I'm getting too old to change careers (29 years old!!)

I've come up with four locations I'd consider training, two in the UK and two in the States. I'd appretiate any views on them;

USA;

EFT, Florida

UK;

1) Stapleford Flying Club, (Because its my local FTO)

2) Midland Air Training, Coventry (Very good price for training on PA28 and just round the corner from evil in-laws!!!)

Regards

Simon

[Slopey]

Highland aero club at Inverness. JAA PPL £4000, no landing fees. Someone just completed in 3 weeks (much better Wx than ABZ).

I'll look into that also (I'm keeping an open mind on the whole thing), but problems from my end are going to be;

1 being based in Aberdeen - 2.5 hr drive north on that damn road

2 our head office is there so I won't be left alone, althought I might be able to wangle something with that.

3 I'd need to stay there for the duration as I'm no way going to commute (see 1), and B&B's around £30 pn, plus subsistance, you're looking at another £1000.

But I'll look into it. The no landing fees are interesting, the £16 at Aberdeen will be doing my head in when I get onto circuits.

Actually, I see they do a 5 hour thing for £499, I might go up and try that out and see what i think, if anything, it'll add another 5 hours instruction and into the log book for £175 less than Aberdeen.

[GusHoneybun]

Slopey


The Gunn in Ardersier (just next to the airport) does a Bed only rate of about 15 squid a night. This was last year, so it might be worth checking. The room is the size of a matchbox, but is clean and above a pub!.
PM me if you want any more info on the school. I used to work there full time before getting my hands on something altogether more sexy than a tomahawk.

[Slopey]

Thanks, will do

[scameron77]

TJF97,

Mate, I'm 28 in October, however I don't have a significant other, so wasn't an issue. Read a post by 'Pilot Pete' about his story, very inspirational.

If you plan to get a PPL for UK use then learn in the UK just for the primacy issue (things learned first will stay with you). Be aware that the UK summer, although crappy in places still offers the best chance you have of attaining your licence with minimal distruption due to weather. Also closer to home the beter, you have a lot to remember, a intensive course does offer you the chance to be immersed in flying.

In answer to your questions:

USA;

1) EFT - I contacted them last year, no repsonse, not impressed as I was looking at their prof pilot scheme.

UK;

1) Stapleford Flying Club - I looked at them too when I lived in London as they were one of the closest to me, decided against it when I looked into the USA. Good tie-ins with Astraeus, but as long as no 'flip-flops' fly into buildings in the next couple of years the industry should be bouyant enough to pay for Type Ratings for new pilots. However you aren't interesed in going that much further as yet.

2) Midland Air Training, Coventry - Can't comment, no experience, just do a search and bear in mind for every good comment on a place there are 2 negative, just that way of the world. However I do beleive 'where there is smoke there is fire' so do your homework. In-Laws and PPL in 3 weeks, are you a pain junkie?

[glidehigh]

I've got a mate who just came back from the USA having got the full JAR PPL in about 5 weeks. His actual flying is very good, but when i asked him about his RT he hadnt a clue, as the little GA field he was at accepted anything said over the radio, even if it wasn't good RT. The airspace practise in the South East UK I got flying from Cranfield doing my PPL was definately worth the extra bit of money, as I am confident flying through controlled airspace round EGGW and EGSS, whereas my friend who paid only a few hundred less to fly in the states wouldn't even consider trying to get a zone transit through some Class D. It's your choice, but Cranfield worked for me, £5000 for a JAR PPL, for everything.

[scameron77]

I'd agree on the whole American RT is pretty poor in comparrison to UK RT

It could be argued that its maybe a little too rigid back home. But here 'errm, Seneca no sorry, Cessna 121BM, 3,250 feet with Juliet Information, looking to land at the airport, needing taxi progressive upon landing, do you have a pilot shop? Thanks', also on tower frequency 'Just cleared the active runway and it'd be nice if I could taxi back?' isn't that uncommon.

I'm lucky to be training in very busy airspace with Bravo, Charlie and Delta airports almost touching each other. I'm also being instucted by a CFI/CFII/MEI with both JAA and FAA instructor ratings. So my RT will be to UK standard even though I'll have to do an RT exam before flying iin the UK.

Essentially what I'm saying is that as long as you do your homework with respect to the location of the school and the background of the instructor then you shouldn't have any issues. Just identify where you are going to do the majority of your flying and plan around that. A £3000 PPL in the US might end up costing another £3000 in the UK when you have to undo bad habits and bring the standards up if you don't choose where you go with enough consideration.

[IRISHPILOT]

well,what's wrong with other JAA states?

Here in CZ, our PPL is around 4100 GBP, beers 60p.

Have a look at Bemoair,
i have some good personal experience with them.

All English, a small, personal CAA to deal with, examiner on staff. And the Zlins are fun too.

JAA initial class 1 medical: 110 GBP

[Slopey]

Ok, I'm looking again at costs, many thanks to all the posters so far. I've now come up with the following:

On a like for like basis I've worked out accurate costs for some scenarios which others my find helpful.

Standard items in addition to the actual flying time itself I've listed as

• Exams - estimated at £140
• Food - estimated at £200 pw
• Club Membership
• R/T Exam - approx £100
• Medical - approx £100
• Skills Test Examiner Fee - approx £150
• CAA Licence Fee - £146
• Return Lessons/Checkride - 3 to 5 hrs at ABZ added to non ABZ options
• Loss of Earnings - if I take unpaid leave for the US option (the others I may be able to work into my schedule - ie go into the office if the Wx is crap)
• Flights and Accomodation as necessary (UK based accomo priced circa £35 pn to get an idea, I'm sure there'll be cheaper)

With a like for like comparison and additional costs where necessary, for a PPL with Night rating (55 hours instruction - no sim), the scores on the doors come out at (obviously, this has a Scottish focus as I'm in Aberdeen):

Note these include Acommodation and travel so don't take them as the actual package costs! They're specific to me!

UK, Aberdeen - £8733
UK, Tayside - £7903
UK, Inverness - £7006
US, Florida - £6353

The US cost also assumes that I'd be down £1000 on loss of earnings if I had to take unpaid leave as I don't want to use all availiable hols. I can head to the office for scrubbed days for both Inv and Abz so thats not included.

Aberdeen are expensive due to the £16 landing fee and the lack of a publicised PPL package, I'll quiz them about that next time I'm there and see if I can cut a deal.

But if I used more of my holiday allowance to reduce the £1000, or remove it completely, for me to get the PPL and Night in the US would come out £3,380 - £2,380 cheaper, including 5 hours instruction back at ABZ when I get back.

That's a lot of cash. The Inverness option is more attractive at only £700 more than US assuming the £1000 loss of earnings.

However - Option 2 - is get the NPPL.

Realistically, Im going to be flying VFR only within the UK anyway (although given the winter up here I would like a Night rating). If I run the same exercise for NPPL at 32 hours and no medical costs, it comes out at:

Inverness - £5152
Aberdeen - £5989
Tayside - £6159

So ultimately, that may be my best option. Hope that's of use to some one aside from me - it's amazing how the exam, medical, licence and other costs add up beyond "Get your PPL for XXX"

[strafer]

Slopey,

I don't know how you got a figure of £6,353 for a PPL in Florida, especially as Concorde has been discontinued. Here's what it cost me for a PPL & night rating at OBA:

Course: Now around £2,900?
Flight: £250
4 hours post-PPL UK training at WLAC - £440
A kneeboard - £30
Err,
That's it

Everything else excepting JAA medical was included, no exam fees, study equipment free, gratis bikes for making your way to the airfield etc. I didn't add the cost of food and accomodation as accomodation was included and I also like to eat food in England. (The money I saved by only going out on the lash one night in three weeks, was a bonus). Admittedly, you now have to add the cost of going to London and getting a visa. But there are many reasons for going to London anyway, not least a Class One if you need it.

Only fools and horses fall for the 'UK PPL is best' bollox.

[Slopey]

I'm not falling for it, it was an accurate costing of the trip.

For example - assuming I'm going Oct-Nov and flying from Glasgow (although from Abz down to London is about the same):

I get:

test
£2,795 45 Hours PPL
£ 328 +5 Hours additional (in case I don't make it + night in 45)
£ 609 Flights - Glasgow to US - Continental
£ 0 Accomodation Included (shared)
£ 0 Exams Inc
£ 600 Food/Drink etc while out there
£ 146 CAA Licence Fee
£ 675 Return Lessons/Checkride (5hrs at Aberdeen)
£1,000 Loss of Earnings - if I take unpaid leave

£ 6153


I take it an Verbal R/T exam is taken as part of the skills test? If not then I had £100 in the budget for that.

Also, I only see reference to an FAA medical - I'm presuming I'd need a CAA Class 2 also? (which is why I've got 6353 in the below ie +£100 allowance for that and the R/T).

As I said earlier, the £1k earnings loss is particular to me if I'm away for 4 weeks - if I do it in the UK I can probably avoid taking the full allowance by heading to an office on bad weather days.

I'm including everything to get an accurate comparision - £2,795 may be the price of the course itself, but there are significant additional costs to consider. I've factored the same costs in for all the examples so I'm comparing like for like.

[TJF97]

I've just sat and worked out a figure:

Course = £2795
5 Additional Hours Tuition = £328
Visa = $100 (£53)
Flight = £333 (LGW to Orlando 1/11/05 - 28/11/05 ebookers.com)
Return Check Test in UK = £550
CAA Licence Fee = £146
CAA Class Two Medical = £20 (You need to know where to look!!)
Food & Drink = £600

Total = £4825

This figure dosn't include car hire

If you need a cheap medical contact a local LGV training school, they should have the list of doctors who do medicals for the DVLA. Its very similar to the CAA medical, I paid £20 last year at a doctors in Kent.

On paper is is starting to look cheaper BUT in reality it could be a whole different experience!!!

[strafer]

Slopes,

let's forget the fact that you think £609 is the cheapest flight from UK-USA and that you have added on 5 hours for some reason and that you work in a job where you get less than 3 weeks holiday a year. Why are you (and others) adding on food and drink? Are you intending to fast for the duration of your PPL in the UK?

To answer your specific questions:
1) The R/T verbal is a separate exam and is included.
2) You need a FAA student medical (included) for your training and a CAA class 2 (not included) for license issue. Although as the CAA medical and license costs are identical for whatever method of training you choose, I did not include them.

PS A mate of mine on my course was from Aberdeen. He now has around 200 hours but hasn't been near Aberdeen airport in his life due to their high costs.

[Slopey]

£609 is the cheapest I can find from Scotland to the US. Yeah, ok, I can go via London via BMI which would save about £200 which is the way I'd do it, but then I'll have another trip to London to visit the embassy, so that then becomes marginal.

The food/drink is included in that list as I've included it in all of my scenarios - compared with the UK options its a benefit on the US ones due to the exchange rate and the lower cost of living over there.

I get 28 days holiday a year, inc public, so removing chrimbo (which works out well this year) leaves me with 25 (hol year starts 1st Oct). So 5 weeks. I need 2 weeks out of that to keep the wife happy, so that leaves me with 3 weeks. Depending on the Wx, getting the PPL could take 4+, so I was estimating 5 weeks total which is 2 weeks unpaid leave. Given the costs I'd hate to be unlucky with the weather or worse, not pass, and have to come back rather than stay on for another week and get finished.

1) Ok, cool
2) Thought so, again, I've included them to get an up front idea of additional costs. There are only 2 CAA approved medical examiners in my area as far as I can see, I'll check costs again.

On Aberdeen - Tell me about it, although my tuition there so far has been excellent, it's hellish expensive.

All in all, the US definately appears to be the cheapest option.

[GoldenMonkey]

Just adding my tupence in here, although not directly related to the last few posts. If you are seriously thinking of going to the states to 'cram' in your course over a few weeks, I would urge you to try and take the 7 ground exams in the UK before you go. That will take a large strain off your training, allowing you to concentrate more on the flying and enable you to get more sleep due to less revising.
Of course there are arguments for studying the theory along side the practical training. But I feel you stand more chance of getting through in a time constrained manner (3-4 weeks) if you have those theory papers out the way first.

Have a goodun what ever you choose.

[Julian]

GMonkey has a very good point, do your exams before you go! I did and found it a whole lot easier, a lot of the guys were stuck in their rooms at night cramming for exams whilst I took it easy and concentrated on the flying...

Couple of things, mainly in relation to TJFs breakdown.

- Never needed 5 hours training on return! Just done the club checkout which was an hour which you would have to do on joining a club anyway.

- Never needed a car! Both the hotel and the flight school I have used run a free minibus/pickup service so unless you are going to do some major touring you wont need one - but anyway if you are then you may as well fly yourself and build those hours

- Confused as to what "Return Check Test in UK = £550" is? If this is the GFT thats notmally included in the price so you do it in the US. Retakes for partials were $250 for the PPL if remember rightly.

The other to remember is that its also one hell of an experience flying over in the US. I go back for at least one flying holiday each year though more if I can get the time off work. Only down side is their beer is cr@p so end up paying through nose for Guiness which is a half decent pint!

Julian.

[strafer]

Taking all or some of your exams before you go to the States, will certainly give you an easier time & a chance to have some holiday also.

However, the point of this thread is the cheapest way to gain a PPL and you are unlikey to get much if any, of a discount from the course price for having done the exams. Certainly not enough to make up for the money you've spent on tuition, books, study aids & exam fees in the UK. All of which are included in most US courses.

Doing everything in three weeks means long hours and hard work. But, I had a great time.

[TJF97]

GoldenMonkey,
Sorry should have explained myself better for you, I was thinking worst case scenario when I came up with my figures. It may be the case that after 45 hours the school will say/suggest an additional amount of tuition ie; 5 hours is required.

Secondly the 5 hour check test in the UK referred to when you go to your local club, I've read several posts on here where people have been required to have lengthy check rides with the local club before they can hire a plane because the club may be concerned over the standard of training received in the USA and in particular the R/T procedure. The 5 hour figure is again worst case scenario.

Having spent several hours yesterday going through the figures it appears the saving is roughly £1500 - £2000 over doing a similar course in the UK. So I've decided that I'm going to take a few lessons over here and then go to the states to complete the PPL. The way I see it is that I will be able to practice the UK R/T procedure and get used to flying in UK airspace, then complete the course in a much shorter time.

My next decision is to decide which JAA school to go to!! I've got the choice down to three, two are in Florida (O.B.A and E.F.T) and the third (whose name I'm not allowed to mention) and is not in Florida. I'm actually swaying towards the non-Florida option but then one of the schools in Florida includes the night rating!

Decisions decisons..............

[Slopey]

TJF97 - Yep, I'm in the same boat and looking at the same schools you are - if you wan't to compare notes, drop me a PM as that's probably starting to get off topic for here, especially concering they-who-must-not-be-named.

[TJF97]

Slopey, I've sent you a PM