Is it that much cheaper to train in the US?
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Is it that much cheaper to train in the US? DECISION TIME!!!
Can someone tell me if its that much cheaper to train in the States?
I think that once you add all the extra's on to your training abroad its nearly the same price as training in the UK.
I've put a few figures together, I've based these on a 4 week course and the fact that most people need another 5 - 10 hours extra lessons on top of the minimum 45 to complete the PPL. Then additionaly having to pay for a check test in the UK at the local club before you can hire a plane.
These figures are only approx.
JAA PPL 45 hour course = £3000
10 Hours extra lesson's on top of the 45 = £500
Air fare = £300
Accomadation = £400
Food/Drink = £300
Visa's = £100
3 - 4 hour Check test at local club = £400
That's a grand total of £5000!!
What do people think?? Should I just stay in the UK and cycle the 8 miles to my nearest club??
I think that once you add all the extra's on to your training abroad its nearly the same price as training in the UK.
I've put a few figures together, I've based these on a 4 week course and the fact that most people need another 5 - 10 hours extra lessons on top of the minimum 45 to complete the PPL. Then additionaly having to pay for a check test in the UK at the local club before you can hire a plane.
These figures are only approx.
JAA PPL 45 hour course = £3000
10 Hours extra lesson's on top of the 45 = £500
Air fare = £300
Accomadation = £400
Food/Drink = £300
Visa's = £100
3 - 4 hour Check test at local club = £400
That's a grand total of £5000!!
What do people think?? Should I just stay in the UK and cycle the 8 miles to my nearest club??
Last edited by TJF97; 6th Oct 2005 at 15:02.
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Hello Mate
You are quit right, for a small PPL course you might aswell stay at home and do it there, i am doing a full JAA ATPL course in America, i am going to save around £20,000-£30,000, so it depends on the course that you are going for.
Hope this has helped,
Feel free to ask me any questions
Cya
Jamie
You are quit right, for a small PPL course you might aswell stay at home and do it there, i am doing a full JAA ATPL course in America, i am going to save around £20,000-£30,000, so it depends on the course that you are going for.
Hope this has helped,
Feel free to ask me any questions
Cya
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Don't go cheap on training. Safety is paramount. If you want to fly in the uk, train in the uk. You have crap weather, congested airspace, controlled airspace everywhere, which is brilliant for experience, improving airmanship, and teaching you to cope in a difficult environment. This all makes you a better pilot in my opinion especially if you want to fly in the uk.
So many guys who come back from a 3 week jaunt in the US don't have the experience to cope with these conditions. Where I live in the south east, the airspace is so crowded, I am glad that i trained over here. Especially if you want to go professional.
So many guys who come back from a 3 week jaunt in the US don't have the experience to cope with these conditions. Where I live in the south east, the airspace is so crowded, I am glad that i trained over here. Especially if you want to go professional.
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Bit of a blinkered view Girdler,
I have done quite a bit of flying in the US, as well as the UK and have to say that you can get as much weather over there as you can handle! If you want good weather you can find it just as you can find really crap weather to go and use your IR in.
I did my PPL in California and you can fly in CAVOK, to ski resorts (yes I kid you not within 40mins flying time), the marine layer (which can catch out the unwary), not to mention your usual overcast skies just as in the UK.
You may want to look up Long Beach (KLGB), very crowded Class B airspace and everything there from GA, to commercial and the military flying the C17.
I did an hours checkout at two clubs on my return and was signed off straight away at both.
In LGB rates are
Aircraft (C152/172) = $45/$70 Hr
Accomdation = $38/Night.
Food = Roughly $20 for good 3 course meal (If you can eat 3 courses yank sized!!!!)
Beer = Domestic beer for about $3 a pint, we drank Guiness thought at a whopping $5.50 pint!!!
BTW mate who I learnt with has just landed a job flying A320s in the UK so training cant be that bad
Fly where you want to at the end of the day, I have done both and enjoy both.
Julian.
I have done quite a bit of flying in the US, as well as the UK and have to say that you can get as much weather over there as you can handle! If you want good weather you can find it just as you can find really crap weather to go and use your IR in.
I did my PPL in California and you can fly in CAVOK, to ski resorts (yes I kid you not within 40mins flying time), the marine layer (which can catch out the unwary), not to mention your usual overcast skies just as in the UK.
You may want to look up Long Beach (KLGB), very crowded Class B airspace and everything there from GA, to commercial and the military flying the C17.
I did an hours checkout at two clubs on my return and was signed off straight away at both.
In LGB rates are
Aircraft (C152/172) = $45/$70 Hr
Accomdation = $38/Night.
Food = Roughly $20 for good 3 course meal (If you can eat 3 courses yank sized!!!!)
Beer = Domestic beer for about $3 a pint, we drank Guiness thought at a whopping $5.50 pint!!!
BTW mate who I learnt with has just landed a job flying A320s in the UK so training cant be that bad
Fly where you want to at the end of the day, I have done both and enjoy both.
Julian.
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I agree. I have done the majority of my flying in Florida (in summer) and never had any problems.
I would advise anyone to go out there and the money you save on a PPL, IMC, Night and Multi you can pay for a full ATPL ground school course
I would advise anyone to go out there and the money you save on a PPL, IMC, Night and Multi you can pay for a full ATPL ground school course
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I can see why people go to the States as it does look cheaper on paper. The point I was making was that after adding all the additional expenses (flights, accomodation and food) it appeared to me that it wasn't that cost effective??
I was just after some advice from you guys that have been over to the States, I'm I right or wrong about the cost??
Julian, I've looked at the flight schools in Long Beach but they don't seem to offer JAA training instead they issue a JAR Complient licence which as far as I'm aware is a FAA licence. Wouldn't this make things complicated if I carried on with further training (CPL/IR etc)??
Regards
Sidyboy75
I was just after some advice from you guys that have been over to the States, I'm I right or wrong about the cost??
Julian, I've looked at the flight schools in Long Beach but they don't seem to offer JAA training instead they issue a JAR Complient licence which as far as I'm aware is a FAA licence. Wouldn't this make things complicated if I carried on with further training (CPL/IR etc)??
Regards
Sidyboy75
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Well you have to live and eat no matter where you are, those are fixed expenses. Brition's have a long tradition of coming to the States for Flight Training. I know Gunness is not cheap here for some reason, I like that too much. When you come here to train, if you are going to be here for a while, take in consideration, that when you look for housing, make sure you have a kitchen so you can do your own cooking. You can buy a lot of food here for not a lot of money if you know how and were to shop. Is it less expensive that Europe, I don't know I never did any flying there or traning, right now with the exchange rates, I would think it would be a good value for some.
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TJF,
I think there are a couple of JAA schools round CA, I have seen then mentioned on the forums but couldnt tell you the names I am afraid.
The 'JAA Compliant' licence is nonense I am afraid, its an FAA PPL with air law and RT added to it as far as I am aware. A JAA compliant licence does not exist! For your initial PPL is does not relaly matter which you do as you can enter a CPL with an ICAO PPL. I know of at least one school that is UK run and has a base in Oxfordshire, they take you right through all the FAA ratings to CFI/CFII/MEI but also includes training to JAA standards to allow you to take the JAA IR conversion on your return to the UK as well as your ATPLs. They are quoting £28.500 and that includes 8 months accomadation!
http://www.usajaa.co.uk
From website:
"This program is aimed at taking the candidate from zero hours flight time to over 1500 hours total time to include:-
FAA ATP
JAR frozen ATPL
FAA Flight Instructor with single engine, multi engine and instrument instructor ratings."
Included
All aircraft rental1
Flight and Ground Instruction2
All FAA test fees
JAR ATPL Groundschool Course3
FAA to JAR CPL & IR conversion4
Eight Months Accommodation
Appropriate VAT and local taxes
Instructor Uniform6
Training books and materials
Not Included
Accommodation after the first eight months
Aviation Medicals
US Visa processing fee (approx £115)
Flights to and from the United States
JAA professional examination & licensing fees
General Living Expenses
Personal Flying Equipment
Personal Flying Equipment
TSA fee (approx. $160)
So not a bad deal if you can take the time off, unfotunately not an option for me!!! And as George says when you factor in items, such as food, beers, etc. that you would be paying for in the UK anyway it looks pretty reasonable.
Julian.
I think there are a couple of JAA schools round CA, I have seen then mentioned on the forums but couldnt tell you the names I am afraid.
The 'JAA Compliant' licence is nonense I am afraid, its an FAA PPL with air law and RT added to it as far as I am aware. A JAA compliant licence does not exist! For your initial PPL is does not relaly matter which you do as you can enter a CPL with an ICAO PPL. I know of at least one school that is UK run and has a base in Oxfordshire, they take you right through all the FAA ratings to CFI/CFII/MEI but also includes training to JAA standards to allow you to take the JAA IR conversion on your return to the UK as well as your ATPLs. They are quoting £28.500 and that includes 8 months accomadation!
http://www.usajaa.co.uk
From website:
"This program is aimed at taking the candidate from zero hours flight time to over 1500 hours total time to include:-
FAA ATP
JAR frozen ATPL
FAA Flight Instructor with single engine, multi engine and instrument instructor ratings."
Included
All aircraft rental1
Flight and Ground Instruction2
All FAA test fees
JAR ATPL Groundschool Course3
FAA to JAR CPL & IR conversion4
Eight Months Accommodation
Appropriate VAT and local taxes
Instructor Uniform6
Training books and materials
Not Included
Accommodation after the first eight months
Aviation Medicals
US Visa processing fee (approx £115)
Flights to and from the United States
JAA professional examination & licensing fees
General Living Expenses
Personal Flying Equipment
Personal Flying Equipment
TSA fee (approx. $160)
So not a bad deal if you can take the time off, unfotunately not an option for me!!! And as George says when you factor in items, such as food, beers, etc. that you would be paying for in the UK anyway it looks pretty reasonable.
Julian.
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I've just started out on my PPL and I'm intending to go to the US to do most of it - on the costs front:
As you say:
JAA PPL 45 hour course = £3000
10 Hours extra lesson's on top of the 45 = £500
Air fare = £300
Accomadation = £400
Food/Drink = £300
Visa's = £100
3 - 4 hour Check test at local club = £400
That's a grand total of £5000!!
But in the UK - certainly at Aberdeen where I'm based it would be:
45 Hour Course = £6075
Don't forget landing fees, none in the US, £16 a pop at Aberdeen
10 Hours extra lessons on top of the 45 = £1350
Food/Drink = £300 (still have to drink and eat!)
That's a grand total of £7725!!
So US £5000
and UK £7725
The other major benefit for doing it in the US (to my mind) is the time factor. I know for a fact that if I try and do it over the course of a year, I'd have trouble arranging more than 1 hour every 2 weeks because of my working schedule. Couple that with the crap weather up in Scotland for a large part of the year, and it becomes a no-brainer.
Luckily, I've got the time off work and I'm trying to tie it into a visit to a stateside office which would save me another £400 in flights.
I plan to do another 5-6 hours instruction once I'm back in the UK to get up to speed on the slightly different procs - the key thing for me is that I'll be able to dedicate a whole month to it, and can afford to hour build for an additional week when Im out there for around £45 per hour, which is a third of the price of the UK.
As you say:
JAA PPL 45 hour course = £3000
10 Hours extra lesson's on top of the 45 = £500
Air fare = £300
Accomadation = £400
Food/Drink = £300
Visa's = £100
3 - 4 hour Check test at local club = £400
That's a grand total of £5000!!
But in the UK - certainly at Aberdeen where I'm based it would be:
45 Hour Course = £6075
Don't forget landing fees, none in the US, £16 a pop at Aberdeen
10 Hours extra lessons on top of the 45 = £1350
Food/Drink = £300 (still have to drink and eat!)
That's a grand total of £7725!!
So US £5000
and UK £7725
The other major benefit for doing it in the US (to my mind) is the time factor. I know for a fact that if I try and do it over the course of a year, I'd have trouble arranging more than 1 hour every 2 weeks because of my working schedule. Couple that with the crap weather up in Scotland for a large part of the year, and it becomes a no-brainer.
Luckily, I've got the time off work and I'm trying to tie it into a visit to a stateside office which would save me another £400 in flights.
I plan to do another 5-6 hours instruction once I'm back in the UK to get up to speed on the slightly different procs - the key thing for me is that I'll be able to dedicate a whole month to it, and can afford to hour build for an additional week when Im out there for around £45 per hour, which is a third of the price of the UK.
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US of A
I chose the US of A rather than Europe because of cost and I was assured that I would be trained within a FAA environment to JAA standards. That promise made to me has been proven to be true, if it wasn't this website would be the first place I'd air it. I was in the same position as you lot are exactly a year ago and have no problem shopping anyone I encounter who pulls a fast one on me and my money, after all I am Scottish and have national stereotypes to uphold.
My training from 0 to ATP & ATPL(f) licences will works out at around £18,000 ish after my accomodation is paid and renummeraiton for instructing. With living expenses, £6k for on a budget, £12k living comfortably. I chose the latter.
Only thing is I might not have the 'executive elevator' to a airline at the end of my training that some big European schools we all know of promise/boast of/spin/and in some cases actually deliver, however I hope that 1,500 hours in busy airspace and CFI/CFII & MEI licences may grease me into that first gucci job.
Stephen
NB - KLGB is class Delta airspace, the only Bravo in the basin is LAX. However I have been told Long Beach is the 13th busiest airport in the world in terms of aircraft movements, not 100% sure on that one tho
My training from 0 to ATP & ATPL(f) licences will works out at around £18,000 ish after my accomodation is paid and renummeraiton for instructing. With living expenses, £6k for on a budget, £12k living comfortably. I chose the latter.
Only thing is I might not have the 'executive elevator' to a airline at the end of my training that some big European schools we all know of promise/boast of/spin/and in some cases actually deliver, however I hope that 1,500 hours in busy airspace and CFI/CFII & MEI licences may grease me into that first gucci job.
Stephen
NB - KLGB is class Delta airspace, the only Bravo in the basin is LAX. However I have been told Long Beach is the 13th busiest airport in the world in terms of aircraft movements, not 100% sure on that one tho
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I'm still not convinced it really is that much cheaper if all you are after is a JAA PPL, Hey prove me wrong!!
Scameron77 your in a lucky position fella where you have moved lock stock over to the States, I'm not so lucky! I would have to keep flying over to complete a course/licence and then fly back which adds up. Plus I know I would have to pay for food and drink regardless of where I am but I also have to pay a mortgage so adding accommodation on top dosn't help!!
The thing that puts me off about doing my PPL in the states and in particular Florida is that all the UK schools don't seem to rate the training. Do you think I'd be better off if I went one of the schools in LA or even Canada??
Scameron77 your in a lucky position fella where you have moved lock stock over to the States, I'm not so lucky! I would have to keep flying over to complete a course/licence and then fly back which adds up. Plus I know I would have to pay for food and drink regardless of where I am but I also have to pay a mortgage so adding accommodation on top dosn't help!!
The thing that puts me off about doing my PPL in the states and in particular Florida is that all the UK schools don't seem to rate the training. Do you think I'd be better off if I went one of the schools in LA or even Canada??
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It is a subject which has been done to death over the years, both here and on the private flying boards. There are many opinions about, and a search will reveal some interesting, some boring and indeed some heated arguments.
I think you're right. Do just do a PPL, with the intention to fly here you should train here. Airfares, accomodation etc all add up. Also there is no substitute for being at the flying club you'll continue to use once you have a licence. Get to know everyone and you'll end up going on a lot of trips and perhaps even getting freebies whenever aircraft go on maintenance.
The guy who reckons he is saving £30k on a commercial licence in the states is talking rubbish. People who have done it all frequently come home and say they saved a negligible amount overall. I know a few guys who have done it and they all wish they hadn't.
Your training is important, don't skimp on it. You are dead right in my opinion, stay here.
Slopey
Highland aero club at Inverness. JAA PPL £4000, no landing fees. Someone just completed in 3 weeks (much better Wx than ABZ).
I think you're right. Do just do a PPL, with the intention to fly here you should train here. Airfares, accomodation etc all add up. Also there is no substitute for being at the flying club you'll continue to use once you have a licence. Get to know everyone and you'll end up going on a lot of trips and perhaps even getting freebies whenever aircraft go on maintenance.
The guy who reckons he is saving £30k on a commercial licence in the states is talking rubbish. People who have done it all frequently come home and say they saved a negligible amount overall. I know a few guys who have done it and they all wish they hadn't.
Your training is important, don't skimp on it. You are dead right in my opinion, stay here.
Slopey
Highland aero club at Inverness. JAA PPL £4000, no landing fees. Someone just completed in 3 weeks (much better Wx than ABZ).
Last edited by silverknapper; 15th Jul 2005 at 18:00.
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Rubbish is it!
I agree with slopey it has been done to death, and heated arguments do end up taking over, no doubt caused by comments like 'that guy is talking rubbish'.
The long and short of it is, I'm being trained in some of the busiest airspace in the world. I can buzz about at 4,500 over LAX, you can't even fly near London as its class Alpha. I've looked at UK charts and yes, at this stage in my training they seem daunting compared to US sectionals, too busy and too many restrictions but I don't don't doubt that when it comes to sitting my JAA CPL/IR at Tayflight after 1,500 hours in the States, instructing everything from 152's to Seneca's, 172's with glass cockpits and Diamond twins (again with glass cockpits) and having completed my 14 ATPL exams by distance learning, I'll have the ability to absorb it.
By the time I return to the UK and complete my CPL/IR I will have spent £30,000 total, I will have 1,500 hours and I will be as happy as a pig in sh!t.
£4000 is a great price for a JAA PPL, TJF97 I'd certainly look into that especially if you want to do all your flying in the UK, you've also got the best time of year to do it in terms of the weather and getting continious flying. Accomodation in the UK is no less than £30 in a B&B. Also flights to Inverness are around £250 from Heathrow. However there is nothing to do in Inverness, except look at the pretty scenery so that'll aid studying.
I was in a postion when I moved here that I had no ties back home, only a house which is now on the market. However I'm going from 0 to the full shebang so there is no way I could have done it other than moving out here. The type of training you undertake depends on your situation, funds and needs.
TFJ97, I'm unsure at what level of licence you want to get to.
Stephen
The long and short of it is, I'm being trained in some of the busiest airspace in the world. I can buzz about at 4,500 over LAX, you can't even fly near London as its class Alpha. I've looked at UK charts and yes, at this stage in my training they seem daunting compared to US sectionals, too busy and too many restrictions but I don't don't doubt that when it comes to sitting my JAA CPL/IR at Tayflight after 1,500 hours in the States, instructing everything from 152's to Seneca's, 172's with glass cockpits and Diamond twins (again with glass cockpits) and having completed my 14 ATPL exams by distance learning, I'll have the ability to absorb it.
By the time I return to the UK and complete my CPL/IR I will have spent £30,000 total, I will have 1,500 hours and I will be as happy as a pig in sh!t.
£4000 is a great price for a JAA PPL, TJF97 I'd certainly look into that especially if you want to do all your flying in the UK, you've also got the best time of year to do it in terms of the weather and getting continious flying. Accomodation in the UK is no less than £30 in a B&B. Also flights to Inverness are around £250 from Heathrow. However there is nothing to do in Inverness, except look at the pretty scenery so that'll aid studying.
I was in a postion when I moved here that I had no ties back home, only a house which is now on the market. However I'm going from 0 to the full shebang so there is no way I could have done it other than moving out here. The type of training you undertake depends on your situation, funds and needs.
TFJ97, I'm unsure at what level of licence you want to get to.
Stephen
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also flights to Inverness are around £250 from Heathrow
However there is nothing to do in Inverness
Will be interesting to see just how easy you find this route, and indeed if it works out as advertised. Guy I used to instruct with went out on one of these programs. Came home asap. But I guess you know it all Scameron.
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I will never profess to knowing it all, however I know what I've experienced so far. I will however not stoop to patronising people on this thread.
I stand corrected about the flights, I was going on BA fairs as I remembered them. I forgot about Pikeyjet.
Second, if someone want to complete a PPL in three weeks, its in their advantage that there is little to do, less distrations as there is a hell of a lot to absorb.
Inverness is a pretty town with amazing scenery nearby, however its not London's Wst End, Las Vegas or Soho in New York. Please on't inform the Highlands and Islands Tourist Board of my coments of I may get taken out by an elite sniper.
Third, I've been here since Januay, I'm loving it, all aspects, the mates I've met, the flying, the women, the sun and the US of A. If I come home it'll be for blue extra chewing gum, Motherwell in a cup final or for a mates wedding.
I've never experienced anyone starting a program out here and leaving.
Everything is working out fine, the owner of the company is now also my friend, I'm sure I'll be fine and dandy.
Stephen
I stand corrected about the flights, I was going on BA fairs as I remembered them. I forgot about Pikeyjet.
Second, if someone want to complete a PPL in three weeks, its in their advantage that there is little to do, less distrations as there is a hell of a lot to absorb.
Inverness is a pretty town with amazing scenery nearby, however its not London's Wst End, Las Vegas or Soho in New York. Please on't inform the Highlands and Islands Tourist Board of my coments of I may get taken out by an elite sniper.
Third, I've been here since Januay, I'm loving it, all aspects, the mates I've met, the flying, the women, the sun and the US of A. If I come home it'll be for blue extra chewing gum, Motherwell in a cup final or for a mates wedding.
I've never experienced anyone starting a program out here and leaving.
Everything is working out fine, the owner of the company is now also my friend, I'm sure I'll be fine and dandy.
Stephen
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i dunno if this helps anyone but from what i have heard is that because alot of people were travelli8ng to america to train as a pilot the us are being more tight on it now and are not letting as as many people, not 2 sure weather that is true or not but yea i got told by some pilots that it is actually cheaper to train in the us then over here but lyk another person said it depends which for
also another place to think about going to is new zealand apparently it is cheap to train out there but anyway good luck with things and when your rich and a fully qualified pilot u can help me out! lol
gd luck with everything
chris
also another place to think about going to is new zealand apparently it is cheap to train out there but anyway good luck with things and when your rich and a fully qualified pilot u can help me out! lol
gd luck with everything
chris
Time spend (or wasted) is an important factor and the aircraft rentals are a lot cheaper in the US.
The more training the higher the savings.
You can do zero to CPL ME IR in the US in 4 months for $35,000 to $40,000.
After conversions back in Europe you should still come out on top.
The more training the higher the savings.
You can do zero to CPL ME IR in the US in 4 months for $35,000 to $40,000.
After conversions back in Europe you should still come out on top.
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I think the long and short of it is, what floats my boat might not do it for someone else. If you're planning on taking the odd flight at weekends and bank holidays around the UK, do your PPL at home.
However if you want to go down the career route, I can't really argue with the US. I'm very lucky that I did my homework on PPRuNe last year - a few of the other Europeans I know out here aren't as happy as me, especially when they compare what I'm getting to what they have paid, however overall when they look at the US and the UK/Spain they still feel justified by coming out here.
I would also echo the comment made by B2N2, people come out here all the time from the UK to do FAA IR's for around $5,000 then convert back home for a fraction of the price of a JAA IR, I'm not 100% but you might actually end up with more hours and two licences, opening up November registered aircraft in addition to Golf.
However if you want to go down the career route, I can't really argue with the US. I'm very lucky that I did my homework on PPRuNe last year - a few of the other Europeans I know out here aren't as happy as me, especially when they compare what I'm getting to what they have paid, however overall when they look at the US and the UK/Spain they still feel justified by coming out here.
I would also echo the comment made by B2N2, people come out here all the time from the UK to do FAA IR's for around $5,000 then convert back home for a fraction of the price of a JAA IR, I'm not 100% but you might actually end up with more hours and two licences, opening up November registered aircraft in addition to Golf.
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Actually, the most extremes of weather are found in the US, as are the most congested airports - try flying into Chicago during snow time or Atlanta in a thunderstorm if you don't believe me although as a neophyte PPL you really shouldn't be in these types of environment. I welcome mixing with you on the KLGB approach but there are limits!
Acquisition of handling skills is the paramount goal and the wise realise that the laws of physics have little respect for nor pay attention to national boundaries - in other words, go where the flying is cheapest with an eye on the conversion process should you intend to return from whence you came. A few hours back home with a local flight instructor is all that's required to become familiar with parochial protocol and fetishes.
Acquisition of handling skills is the paramount goal and the wise realise that the laws of physics have little respect for nor pay attention to national boundaries - in other words, go where the flying is cheapest with an eye on the conversion process should you intend to return from whence you came. A few hours back home with a local flight instructor is all that's required to become familiar with parochial protocol and fetishes.