ATPL exams - what are we paying for?
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ATPL exams - what are we paying for?
I recently attended Gatwick for the july sittings of the ATPL theory exams. Anyone who sat the Met exam will know exactly what im talking about already! - You could not make heads nor tails of the Met charts, they appeared to have been photocopied with a fax machine (cheep fax machine!).
Hence the question, what exactly do we get for our 55 pound per exam? unreadable/unanswerable questions then a letter through the post telling us we hav failed (i may have passed - who knows!). If that i all them have a excelent idea for a new business - that way i too can drive fancy 911's like the civil servents who moderate the exams!!!
I'm aware that this is not the first time a post like this has been posted, im also aware of the advise given contact trading standards etc -which i will be doing tommorrow, I ask anyone else who felt let down/didnt get value for money from the CAA to do the same (contact details to follow) so we can try and sort this out.
If no one does anything it will only continue/get worse!
Hence the question, what exactly do we get for our 55 pound per exam? unreadable/unanswerable questions then a letter through the post telling us we hav failed (i may have passed - who knows!). If that i all them have a excelent idea for a new business - that way i too can drive fancy 911's like the civil servents who moderate the exams!!!
I'm aware that this is not the first time a post like this has been posted, im also aware of the advise given contact trading standards etc -which i will be doing tommorrow, I ask anyone else who felt let down/didnt get value for money from the CAA to do the same (contact details to follow) so we can try and sort this out.
If no one does anything it will only continue/get worse!
Better red than ...
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The pass/ fail letters are very well written though. Excellent printing. No change of misunderstanding there ....
(But what of the Comms 'papers' rip off. Surely VFR and IFR could be combined to save the customer £55 for having to do the 'same' paper twice in a day)
h-r
(But what of the Comms 'papers' rip off. Surely VFR and IFR could be combined to save the customer £55 for having to do the 'same' paper twice in a day)
h-r
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I have to agree that some of the annexes were very poor quality.
The temperature question for FL160 wasnt too hard to figure out but of course the trap was you were looking at a chart for FL180.
I thought the annex supplied for the upper wind direction and speed question was exteamly poor although it must be said that the average direction of 230 wasnt hard to see.
The sig weather chart..well that should have gone straight into the bin...
The temperature question for FL160 wasnt too hard to figure out but of course the trap was you were looking at a chart for FL180.
I thought the annex supplied for the upper wind direction and speed question was exteamly poor although it must be said that the average direction of 230 wasnt hard to see.
The sig weather chart..well that should have gone straight into the bin...
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The CAA need to get money for champagne for the annual dinner dance from somewhere!
They also need to pay people to dream up ever-increasingly meaningless twaddle (which supposedly passes as questions) to try and do us out of re-sit money!
They also need to pay people to dream up ever-increasingly meaningless twaddle (which supposedly passes as questions) to try and do us out of re-sit money!
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they take the mick! all we are doing is buying a lience, learning mostly rubbish that will never affect us!
Its a shame as they could really make these exams usefull!
Its a shame as they could really make these exams usefull!
Last edited by G-SP0T; 10th Jul 2005 at 17:24.
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G-SPOT,
I am not one to argue, but the stuff that your are learning now will stand you in good stead for when you come to a type rating course....trust me....it is the foundation knowledge for the whole of your career...yes it is expensive, yes it is annoying, but dont think for one minute that what your studying will not affect you....thats just arrogant to think that.
A good pilot is one that soaks up as much information and uses it wisely and to better his ability as a commercial pilot.
I am not one to argue, but the stuff that your are learning now will stand you in good stead for when you come to a type rating course....trust me....it is the foundation knowledge for the whole of your career...yes it is expensive, yes it is annoying, but dont think for one minute that what your studying will not affect you....thats just arrogant to think that.
A good pilot is one that soaks up as much information and uses it wisely and to better his ability as a commercial pilot.
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I agree in principle, but - I feel that more could be done to prepare you for flying with the airlines, eg HP+L, why not include more Multi crew, this would after all standardise the training more.
The exam its self was comman sence, and yet, the organic bit behind the stick STILL causes more accidance than anything else! this has been fact for some 20 years - so why haven't JAR (caa etc) managed to change this if they believe the only way to do it is through training (ie exams), this takes me right back to my first question what do they do with all this money!!!
I am not argueing that exams are a waste of time, but that JAR do not do enough to make them most effective.
The exam its self was comman sence, and yet, the organic bit behind the stick STILL causes more accidance than anything else! this has been fact for some 20 years - so why haven't JAR (caa etc) managed to change this if they believe the only way to do it is through training (ie exams), this takes me right back to my first question what do they do with all this money!!!
I am not argueing that exams are a waste of time, but that JAR do not do enough to make them most effective.
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Forgive me lord for I am about to sin...................
Whilst I neither like nor dislike the way the exams are produced, there are a couple of conclusions I reached.
Firstly the breadth of the subject to be tested is mammoth. It must encapsulate the PA28 Flying instructor, the oil rigs helo and the would be 747 ace. In addition to this, it must conform to the standards of all of the other participating countries – point is, it’s bigger that the CAA.
Secondly and never forget this, the exams are nothing more than a selection process, a sift to weedle out those who are not committed or those who can barely walk and talk at the same time.
I too think that the exams could be better produced, but the CAA is a company which wants to make money and repro charts is a good cost cutter – not a convincing argument, but a sad reality.
I noted G-SPOT’s comment on more multi-crew HP&L, and in principle agree. However as a CRMI, this particular area is one that is better left to discussion and debate to get the best answers rather than academic answers. This way you arrive at a more informed answer that will stand you in good stead for the future.
My advice for what it is worth – grin and bare it. Extract the relevant info and forgo the rest.
Promise I don’t work for the CAA!
Whilst I neither like nor dislike the way the exams are produced, there are a couple of conclusions I reached.
Firstly the breadth of the subject to be tested is mammoth. It must encapsulate the PA28 Flying instructor, the oil rigs helo and the would be 747 ace. In addition to this, it must conform to the standards of all of the other participating countries – point is, it’s bigger that the CAA.
Secondly and never forget this, the exams are nothing more than a selection process, a sift to weedle out those who are not committed or those who can barely walk and talk at the same time.
I too think that the exams could be better produced, but the CAA is a company which wants to make money and repro charts is a good cost cutter – not a convincing argument, but a sad reality.
I noted G-SPOT’s comment on more multi-crew HP&L, and in principle agree. However as a CRMI, this particular area is one that is better left to discussion and debate to get the best answers rather than academic answers. This way you arrive at a more informed answer that will stand you in good stead for the future.
My advice for what it is worth – grin and bare it. Extract the relevant info and forgo the rest.
Promise I don’t work for the CAA!
To be strictly correct, it is not the CAA's choice - they are required by government to cover their costs and make an operating profit. It's that nice Mr Brown you should be complaining to/about.
If you really want something to moan about, have a look at the massive hike in costs the joint industry/CAA review team are about to foist on GA - all because BA are fed up with subsidising your puddle-jumpers.
If you really want something to moan about, have a look at the massive hike in costs the joint industry/CAA review team are about to foist on GA - all because BA are fed up with subsidising your puddle-jumpers.
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Met Annex's
Yeah agree guys regarding the quality of the Annex's...I thought we were in the 21st too, how silly of me....
I spotted that sneaky one too re FL180/FL160 temp....it was only 1 point as well as far as I remember....
Did anyone work out a logical answer for the sig chart where you had to pick the best statement, I think it was a 3 pointer..
Turkish
I spotted that sneaky one too re FL180/FL160 temp....it was only 1 point as well as far as I remember....
Did anyone work out a logical answer for the sig chart where you had to pick the best statement, I think it was a 3 pointer..
Turkish
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Turk, i went for Amsterdam-Copenhagen.
The North/South moving front over Spain was bo**ocks although i nearly went for that one thanks to the crap quality of the chart. The Jet over Bordeaux was 100 knots so it couldn't have been that choice. Can't remember the other option. What do you reckon?
The North/South moving front over Spain was bo**ocks although i nearly went for that one thanks to the crap quality of the chart. The Jet over Bordeaux was 100 knots so it couldn't have been that choice. Can't remember the other option. What do you reckon?
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the N/S front, was a bit tricky, at first glance it looked to be well off to 45* or something like that, but you had too bear in mind that N/S on the chart is not top/bottem on the paper, due to the curve of the earth.
We will have to wait and see! is it this friday we get results? or next week?
We will have to wait and see! is it this friday we get results? or next week?
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Haha think I picked the N/S front...never mind...I had about 45 mins left and was just going over and over it again and I thought even if I stare at this all day I'm still going to guess...
Thanks to Bristol GS on line I recalled quite a few of the questions...got one of the altimeter ones wrong, FL20, -40 etc answer was 19 thousand and something...I took mine in Florida sometimes the exams are the same sometimes they are not...
Not sure if results will be here Friday, that would be nice as I wanted to take my last 2 in August, but not going to until I see how I got on in July...Took GNAV...left my F........G compass at home!!! what a disaster as there was 3 two pointers requiring a compass....I kick myself every morning when I wake up!!
Thanks to Bristol GS on line I recalled quite a few of the questions...got one of the altimeter ones wrong, FL20, -40 etc answer was 19 thousand and something...I took mine in Florida sometimes the exams are the same sometimes they are not...
Not sure if results will be here Friday, that would be nice as I wanted to take my last 2 in August, but not going to until I see how I got on in July...Took GNAV...left my F........G compass at home!!! what a disaster as there was 3 two pointers requiring a compass....I kick myself every morning when I wake up!!
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These exams are a bit like a lottery. Of all the results i've gained, none were really what i expected! I'm sure they fiddle around with peoples marks based on the national trend!!
I can't see them coming this Friday. Probably Friday week based on previous experience.
I'm sitting here looking at the 14 sets of notes, 4 large lever arch files piled with feedback (and a few pages of notes....), praying that i can soon shut the door on them for good!
Good luck to all waiting.
I can't see them coming this Friday. Probably Friday week based on previous experience.
I'm sitting here looking at the 14 sets of notes, 4 large lever arch files piled with feedback (and a few pages of notes....), praying that i can soon shut the door on them for good!
Good luck to all waiting.
