Job while studying
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Job while studying
I've just started my ATPL's (distance learning) and am looking for a job to supplement it. I thought that getting into the industry would be great not only to put on my CV but to gain an insight into airline operations and economics and maybe gain some important contacts. What are people's views as to which job may be the best to achieve these objectives. I thought cabin crew - closest to those people that matter, pilots? Or ramp services/check-in desk?
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in oct/nov il be in the same situation. It would be great to get a job at the airport. Id lvoe to do cabin crew though, but thats over a months training in it, and the chances of getting a job based at my local (NCL) are slim to none. So i think checkin, or despatcher would be what im looking at.
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Ikea
You'll never get a despatcher job straight away. They tend to go to guys who have worked on the ramp for a while and learned the ropes. Also if you got a CC job you could end up with no time to study - I know a few EZY cabin crew and their rosters are horrendous.
IMHO there would be little to be gained working short term for an airline. They will see you for what you are, and having trained you as Cabin crew or anything else they won't be too happy when in 5 months time you start looking to leave. Or ask for three weeks off for your brush up and exams. I know someone who was CC for 4 years then went to get his fATPL. His old company wouldn't even interview him.
A ground job would be better i think. You will have very little if any interaction with the flight deck but can start straight away and you won't be employed by an airline so if you leave cos they won't give you 3 weeks off you won't be burning bridges.
Even better, but it is rare, would be temp work in an ops/rostering dept. I know it is specialised work, but I know for a fact that EZY use temps with absolutely no background in their rostering and crewing dept.
However I would think again about just how good it will look on your CV. Had you being doing the job for years then loyalty may count for something, but being a loader or check in agent for 6 months isn't going to do much for you. Picture the interview. "So mr Jakes just how much insight into our operations and economics did you gain by standing in the hold stacking suitcases every day?"
You'll never get a despatcher job straight away. They tend to go to guys who have worked on the ramp for a while and learned the ropes. Also if you got a CC job you could end up with no time to study - I know a few EZY cabin crew and their rosters are horrendous.
IMHO there would be little to be gained working short term for an airline. They will see you for what you are, and having trained you as Cabin crew or anything else they won't be too happy when in 5 months time you start looking to leave. Or ask for three weeks off for your brush up and exams. I know someone who was CC for 4 years then went to get his fATPL. His old company wouldn't even interview him.
A ground job would be better i think. You will have very little if any interaction with the flight deck but can start straight away and you won't be employed by an airline so if you leave cos they won't give you 3 weeks off you won't be burning bridges.
Even better, but it is rare, would be temp work in an ops/rostering dept. I know it is specialised work, but I know for a fact that EZY use temps with absolutely no background in their rostering and crewing dept.
However I would think again about just how good it will look on your CV. Had you being doing the job for years then loyalty may count for something, but being a loader or check in agent for 6 months isn't going to do much for you. Picture the interview. "So mr Jakes just how much insight into our operations and economics did you gain by standing in the hold stacking suitcases every day?"
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Don't waste your time on check-in jobs. You will have zero contact with crews and learn very little of any use or relevance. Similarly with baggage handling.
As Silverknapper says, cabin crew work is unlikely for a short period as the airlines put in a significant investment in your training, and they won't waste it if they can get somebody else who wants it for the longer term. However, I would gladly swap my roster for an EZY CC roster.
Dispatch is your best bet, although be aware that the money is rotten and you will be expected to work shifts over a 24 hour period, so there is limited flexibility for other activities. Loads of contact with crews, and they tend to take an interest in you and your career progress if they like you on a personal level. Just try not to upset too many of them as this really is a very small industry and you will earn a bad rep very quickly. Enjoyable way to waste time and won't count against you at interview. I have numerous friends in FO positions who started out in dispatch thanks to the job market post 911.
I can't speak for other stations, but it is nonsense to suggest that you cannot go straight into dispatch with zero experience. That is exactly how it works at NCL. Almost none of the dispatch team in the office came to the job with any prior experience on the ramp. Always vacancies up for grabs. PM me if you want some contact details or to know what you will be letting yourself in for. Your aviation ambitions won't count against you either - there have already been 4 CPL holders through the office in the last 12 months alone.
Also at NCL, there are no operations departments as the airlines use the ground handlers for all services, so the only non-crew airline jobs available are in customer services type roles and again, you will have virtually no contact with crews or any involvement with the operation airside.
As Silverknapper says, cabin crew work is unlikely for a short period as the airlines put in a significant investment in your training, and they won't waste it if they can get somebody else who wants it for the longer term. However, I would gladly swap my roster for an EZY CC roster.
Dispatch is your best bet, although be aware that the money is rotten and you will be expected to work shifts over a 24 hour period, so there is limited flexibility for other activities. Loads of contact with crews, and they tend to take an interest in you and your career progress if they like you on a personal level. Just try not to upset too many of them as this really is a very small industry and you will earn a bad rep very quickly. Enjoyable way to waste time and won't count against you at interview. I have numerous friends in FO positions who started out in dispatch thanks to the job market post 911.
I can't speak for other stations, but it is nonsense to suggest that you cannot go straight into dispatch with zero experience. That is exactly how it works at NCL. Almost none of the dispatch team in the office came to the job with any prior experience on the ramp. Always vacancies up for grabs. PM me if you want some contact details or to know what you will be letting yourself in for. Your aviation ambitions won't count against you either - there have already been 4 CPL holders through the office in the last 12 months alone.
Also at NCL, there are no operations departments as the airlines use the ground handlers for all services, so the only non-crew airline jobs available are in customer services type roles and again, you will have virtually no contact with crews or any involvement with the operation airside.
I was basing it on mates at LPL, where dispatch jobs seem to go to guys already at the handlers. Always ready to accept when I'm wrong!
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MC,
When u say that the only non-crew jobs are customer related and don't tend to have much contact with the crew i disagree slightly.A friend that i studied with and is cpl/ir is an asr at ncl.Obviously there is a large customer svc side to his job but he prepares the flight plans/wx etc for the crews on a daily basis and speaks to them in the crew room to make sure they have everything they need,then again airside on the a/c.
Again i dont think the money is great but sounds like valuable experience to me,and may put him in a good light when he decides to apply for a flying position. I don't know if all airlines have asr s and if so how many there are but it sounds fun to me!
PP
When u say that the only non-crew jobs are customer related and don't tend to have much contact with the crew i disagree slightly.A friend that i studied with and is cpl/ir is an asr at ncl.Obviously there is a large customer svc side to his job but he prepares the flight plans/wx etc for the crews on a daily basis and speaks to them in the crew room to make sure they have everything they need,then again airside on the a/c.
Again i dont think the money is great but sounds like valuable experience to me,and may put him in a good light when he decides to apply for a flying position. I don't know if all airlines have asr s and if so how many there are but it sounds fun to me!
PP
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I got myself a job on check-in when I was studying.
I was promoted to dispatch after 5 days on check-in!
I think that was just luck - right background-right place-right time.
Dispatch for an independant handling agent is a great way of networking with a large number of airlines in a short space of time. You work closley with flight crews all day.
Now I've completed my training I've already had one interview as a direct result of a contact (chief pilot) made one day whilst dispatching.
The support and advice given by many pilots is also very valuble to a wannabe's career.
Good luck
I was promoted to dispatch after 5 days on check-in!
I think that was just luck - right background-right place-right time.
Dispatch for an independant handling agent is a great way of networking with a large number of airlines in a short space of time. You work closley with flight crews all day.
Now I've completed my training I've already had one interview as a direct result of a contact (chief pilot) made one day whilst dispatching.
The support and advice given by many pilots is also very valuble to a wannabe's career.
Good luck
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PP
Sounds like your mate may work for either TCX or BY then. I don't think any of the other airlines based at NCL have any support of that kind. It does tend to be a primarily customer-driven job, and although you do see the reps airside, they don't do a great deal other than chat to the hosties. Anybody wanting to be a pilot would quite naturally be more interested with the flight crew operation and dispatch has the advantage there. The drawback with seeking work as a rep for the charters is that during the winter at NCL there is very limited charter activity.
Working as a dispatcher for either of the two handling agents would give anybody a far greater level of contact with crews in the more interesting environment of the aircraft itself, and the advantage of working with a much wider variety of airlines. As Captain 101 points out, it is a great way to make contacts, and even if they cannot assist directly, they almost certainly know someone else who can. Glad to see you also consider moving from check-in to dispatch as a 'promotion'.
Sounds like your mate may work for either TCX or BY then. I don't think any of the other airlines based at NCL have any support of that kind. It does tend to be a primarily customer-driven job, and although you do see the reps airside, they don't do a great deal other than chat to the hosties. Anybody wanting to be a pilot would quite naturally be more interested with the flight crew operation and dispatch has the advantage there. The drawback with seeking work as a rep for the charters is that during the winter at NCL there is very limited charter activity.
Working as a dispatcher for either of the two handling agents would give anybody a far greater level of contact with crews in the more interesting environment of the aircraft itself, and the advantage of working with a much wider variety of airlines. As Captain 101 points out, it is a great way to make contacts, and even if they cannot assist directly, they almost certainly know someone else who can. Glad to see you also consider moving from check-in to dispatch as a 'promotion'.
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crew hours
Thanks for your replies, I've got some interviews with airlines regarding cabin crew vacancies and am waiting on interview date for check-in/ramp job at southampton, but am now a little concerned with claims that I won't get much time to study if i'm cabin crew. So how many hours (on average) are you required to work as cabin crew (I know it probably varies airline to airline)? I've given myself a year to finish the ATPL's. Is this realistic if I worked as crew?
Thanks.
Thanks.
