L1011 MCC Bournemouth

[Just another student]

Is anybody familiar with the Tristar MCC at Bournemouth? Would anyone recommend the course. I could see it being an exciting challenge and would be my hearts choice.However my brain is telling me 737 or A320.

Any thoughts?

Thanks as always

JAS

[scroggs]

MCC is about CRM training in a fligght deck environment. It has nothing to do with the type represented by the simulator the course uses. Frankly, you could do it on two chairs with MS Flight Sim running in front of you. Don't get hung up on what simulator you may or may not do it on.

Scroggs

[Just another student]

Scroggs, would you make the choice based on the cost of the course then? I've not really looked into the subject in depth yet, it would seem from what I have read, you practice emergency procedures etc working in a team. Is it purely designed to help you the individual work as part of a cockpit and crew unit?

From what I have read in past posts, people seem to advise to go in a sim that may help you later on so to speak.That's the main reason I asked the question. The L1011 comes in at around 2300 GBP, where as others can be as much as 3500 (757, A320 etc)

If I could do it with FS2004, I may aswell stay in my bed room lol

Cheers

[Canada Goose]

I know 2 guys who went there about a month ago and they both highly recommended it !! The L1011 is a full motion sim and the chap who teaches is apparently very good and very experienced !!
Hope it helps ........... if/when I do my MCC I will probably go there. One thing they did say was it's easier to do if you've linked up with someone in advance, otherwise you have to wait til there's another person who is on there own !!

CG.

[Just another student]

Thanks CG, people do seem to speak highly of the course.

Just a simple matter of passing a CPL, MEP and IR check ride first

[Snigs]

I did mine there, albeit a long time ago (late 2001). I'd recommend the sim, it's full motion and hence is a good laugh and very educational!

Scroggs,

you could do it on two chairs with MS Flight Sim running in front of you.

You know that's not true! How would you do the emergency decompression drill, or pilot incapacitation, of for that matter the RTO with all the bells going off for an engine fire with MS Flight Sim????

I agree that is doesn't matter which sim but I feel that it should be done in an authentic full motion sim, which MS FS isn't!

[Hufty]

I went there in early 2003 and had a great time. It would be useful to do it on an EFIS equipped aircraft, but the big jet handling experience you get is really helpful when it comes to a sim ride. You get the CRM experience whatever sim you do it on, but I found it helpful to get used to the inertia of such a big "aeroplane".

When I was there BCFT (I think) used that sim as did another crowd MCT. I used MCT and they were very good indeed.

Hufty.

[ATP_Al]

It doesn't matter what sim you do it on, but if you can fly an FNPT2 for £2000 or a Tristar for £2400 take the Tristar just for the experience!

I did mine with BCFT in February and loved it - the course covers a lot more than the basic syllabus and I learned quite a bit about jet handling during the week.

Al

[Just another student]

I would love to experience the Tristar sim and it does seem to be one of the better priced courses. I have not heard or read (so far) a bad word said about the course.

Cheers

JAS

[Irish Steve]

You know that's not true! How would you do the emergency decompression drill, or pilot incapacitation, of for that matter the RTO with all the bells going off for an engine fire with MS Flight Sim????

Most of that is type specific, so you'll end up doing it in the sim anyway.

A long time ago, not long after Kegworth, Aer Lingus needed to get a group of cadets through an MCC course, and at that time, they were new CPL's with very little ME time, let alone jet time.

For operational reasons, they decided that the best way to do this training was with a specialised FS4 (that tells you how long ago it was) based dual control system, using specialised scenarios that developed the MCC aspects of the training.

It worked.

It wasn't a motion sim, it wasn't even an enclosed cockpit, and there were other limitations, but it worked.

The important aspect wasn't that it bounced hard if the landing wasn't right, it was that they could correctly develop the interpersonal skills needed between the crew members in an aviation related environment, which FS4 was able to provide.

[spitfire747]

I did the MCC there with BCFT last week and it was the best 20 hours i think i have done. The Tristar is an excellent sim and although not EFIS equipped, is more like the sort of sim you will be using for a sim ride in the future, so from that point of view the handling is very helpful.

I had an amazing time and the value of the course in relation to working together as a team is very very good. well worth the extra pounds in my opinion.. reward yourself at the end of the CPL/IR training.

[Just another student]

Spitfire 747 check your pm's please

JAS

[GuinnessQueen]

L1011

Yep, I couldn't agree more with Spitfire747, a great course, very valuable in how to operate as a team and good fun flying the jet hands on by the end of the course.

I'm happy to recommend the course to anyone. Originally I was just going to settle for the cheapest option I could find, but with hindsight, well worth the £400 more.

Of course Spit, you could mention how wonderful the course was made by the person sitting next to you (excusing my frequent 'blonde monemet's)!

Cheers

GQ

[CAT3C AUTOLAND]

Nice pictures Spit.

Scroggs, I don't think sitting on two chairs in front of MS flight sim would be quite as much fun as completing the course in a full motion jet simulator. I can share the enthusiasm these guys have for wanting to do their MCC's in decent simulators.

[Send Clowns]

You didn't come and say hi, Spit!

[spitfire747]

guiness queen.... never knew you liked the black stuff ...yes of course the whole experience is made all the better by having a good partner who you can work well with and mine was ace ... i don't know about any blonde moments but i do know how good it felt on the final day when we flew it from london heathrow to prestwick, turnaround and back to heathrow, all by ourselves, even seating the cabin crew for moderate turbulence at FL330... with the only words from the instructor were radar headings to steer on departures.

have to agree with Cat3C, doing this course infront of an mssim on milk crates would not have te same impact, sure you woul learn the same things and probably work together just as well, but the sheer "wow" factor is missing..

send clowns.. i did say hi, i think, i asked you for a job ! unless i have you confused with somone else

now i must get on with my cv's can't wait to do this airline flying for a full time job !

enjoy

[Addy]

I did the MCC with EPTA on the Tristar, and I think it's the best thing I've had so far! If you are a competent pilot you'll get out of there with a lot of confidence, the guys teaching (especially Cpt. Smith He's also the guy that has loads of experience on the Tristar as someone said, so he knows exactly how to work the thing) are top blokes and they'll sort you out with multi crew cooperation in no time (if you do put some effort in yourself that is)

We had a group of 4 guys that were all pretty experienced and who knew how to fly, so we didn't really come across any problems. Just do it I'd say, you won't regret it!
(plus like you said, it's pretty cheap compared to others who use the 73 sim, but hey MCC is MCC, you're not doing a type rating, you won't learn how to use EFIS or whatever, you just get a first impression to big jet handling.)

good luck

[Just another student]

Thanks for all the responses. I've just got the small matter of a CPL/IR to contend with before hand

Cheers

JAS

[scroggs]

I think a few people have hit the knub of the matter without really understanding it! The point is that it's the quality of the instruction that's the most important factor. It is quite irrelevant what tool the FTO uses for the student to imitate airline-style procedures. It may make you feel more motivated to be in a genuine airliner simulator, but it is actually irrelevant to the content of the course.

As for learning handling skills that you can take on to your first airline job, I'm sorry, but you're deluding yourselves! Other than getting a loose idea of what is involved flying a big jet, you will learn relatively little about the specific type. That's what your type-rating course is for (whether you or an airline pays for it...). I repeat, don't get hung up on the device the school uses. An FNTP2 is quite adequate. There's a perfectly reasonable argument that says that a complex, unfamiliar flight deck is a distraction from the crew co-operation training you are supposed to be receiving.

That said, I have nothing against people doing MCC training in a 'proper' simulator other than the fact that you're paying a lot of money to use a tool that is way too sophisticated for the task at hand. It's your dosh! And remember, MCC was supposed to be part of the airline type-rating course...

Scroggs

[avrodamo]

Did my MCC there about 4 weeks ago. It was superb. Every bit as good as you would expect, and if you knuckle down do as your told, and then apply that in the Sim it will go great. A bit of work after class learning your SOPs will help you out no end