CPL on a twin?

[six-sixty]

Morning all, quick question. My shortlisted school for CPL/IR do their CPL training on a twin. Does anyone have any experience or opinion about the pro's and cons of doing it this way?

I am thinking that the CPL will probably be harder as the aeroplane will be faster thus making being on the ball on VFR navigation more important. Hopefully having sorted out the twin earlier would be one less thing to worry about on the IR.

Any opinions?

PS anyone who hasn't seen the thread at the top of Private Flying on the proposed Eurocontrol airspace charging scheme has only 3 days left to read and respond.

[v12merlin]

I am thinking that the CPL will probably be harder as the aeroplane will be faster thus making being on the ball on VFR navigation more important. Hopefully having sorted out the twin earlier would be one less thing to worry about on the IR.

Very true. I did the multi CPL found it very challenging, but it definitely payed off on the IR.

If you do go for the multi CPL think about trading some single time for twin, I think I converted 10 hours. My package was 19 single and 9 multi which IMO was totally unrealistic. So think carefully before you start, extra training in a twin isn't cheap!

Whichever way you look at it it's going to cost you more than the single CPL then a multi rating. At least thats been my experience.

My experience: Everything takes twice as long and costs twice as much as advertised.

Best of luck,

Merlin.

[Penworth]

I dont have any experience of twin flying yet, but that was my plan, to do the full 28 hour CPL course on the twin in the hope that all that extra ME time will make flying a twin on the IR slightly easier, and will put a little more twin time on my CV.

Besides, by doing it in the USA, its still going to be a little cheaper than doing a 20 hour SE/ 8 hour ME CPL course in the UK.

PW

[six-sixty]

Thanks for the advice, seems I may be thinking on the right track.

Unfortunately the school in question doesn't have a complex single, which means no opprtunity to swap hours.

cheers

[jollypilot]

Not all of a CPL has to be done on a complex - I think up to 20 hours can be done on a 'simple' single - although check the exact number of hours in LASORS. So long as you do the minimum hours required in the multi (or complex single if you were to do a SE CPL) you can do as many of the remainder in a simple aircraft as you like.

I do agree with everyone else though - if you can afford more hours do.

A word of warning though - I did SE CPL then MEP. A number of my good friends did ME CPLs. Unless you can afford alot of extra hours in the multi it is alot harder. If you do SE CPL you can concentrate on 'nailing' the CPOL aspects of the test instead of trying to learn to fly a multi aswell. Then on MEP you learn only how to fly the multi. CPL with assymentric etc ontop of the extra speed adds another dimention to the test.

I emphasise it is only my opinion - but it is chearper, and more importantly easier to do them seperate. However - if you want to go to that school because it is right for you, then that should have the final say.

JP

[divorcingjack]

Hi all,

I am currently in canada doing a CPL and multi IFR. The IFR will be on the schools twin, a beech 95 travelair. When I get back to the UK, I am hoping to find a school that uses a similar twin for the CPL and IR. My plan is that if I have a good number of hours on the twin from the candadian multi rating and IFR, the JAR conversion using the twin for both should be easier than learning to fly a whole new complex single. Any thoughts on this logic ? Criticism gladly appreciated !

divorcingjack

[VFE]

It is tougher and more expensive to do the MEP CPL than the SEP CPL. I did it and wish I hadn't. V12Merlin hit the nail on the head saying that everything takes twice as long and is twice as expensive.

On the practical side you do not have such a clear view for VFR nav in a twin because of the two engines. As already pointed out - you are going faster and with the CPL the navigation is a tough component of the course. Picking out chicken shacks amongst forests pretty much sums up the detail you go into! Doing that at +/-140kts with what JAR stipulate as minimum hours is one helluva tall feat.

My first CPL nav-ex in a MEP was a crippling emotional experience and everything went to a ball of chalk very quickly. Obviously, not everyone is as crap as me but I was deemed "average" so take from that what you will......

Having twin time behind me when I finally graduated to the IR was indeed a bonus but that was mainly down to the fact I'd had extra hours practice in the things (which crippled my budget) owing to the difficulties of CPL VFR navigation (and ****e UK wx) in a twin.

Do the MEP seperate so you can nail the flying part first without the added stress and money of fulfilling the CPL syllabus at the same time. Just get your CPL as cheaply as possible because in the scheme of things it's the IR that matters to your future employer, not the glorified PPL which is the JAR CPL .

VFE.

[englishal]

Funny how the world is totally different.

I went the FAA route, and did the IR first as a PPL, then the Private ME, then the ME CPL then the SE CPL. The only one I ballsed up first time was the SE CPL.......which I found really tough. All those "stupid" VFR manouvres . In the USA if you do the initial CPL in a ME, you are excempt from the requirement to do the navigation in a SE, and you are also excempt from the requirement to do it in a complex.

The ME test was good fun, a VFR from Long Beach to Vegas with a diversion, and on the way back the examiner told me to "go as fast as I can" as he needed to take a leak...so 160kts across the LA basin, back in time for lunch

Just a thought, to get some "cheap" ME experience, it'd be worth going to the USA for a week or so and flying at $170 per hour before embarking on the UK ME training......

[Delta Echo Bravo]

I did my CPL on a multi. I already had significant multi-engine time from flying overseas. I don't think it's cost effective at all. That was one of my reasons for choosing the school I attended, but working through the costings it would have been cheaper to have done my CPL on a single then upgrade for the IR, plus then in one years time your multi and IR run out at the same time, just saving renewal hasstle and potentially cost.

I genuinly don't think there is any long term benefit to be gained, but I do think there is long term cost!!!

[EGBKFLYER]

I did MEP first as PPL (mainly to get the twin flying going at cheaper-than-commercial rates and without as much pressure).

Then I did the IR. The twin experience definitely speeded up the learning when it came to doing it all in the plastic cloud. I reckon I would have found things a lot harder if I was learning to fly the aircraft as well as conduct the flight in under IFR.

I chose to do a multi CPL for two reasons - I saved money by doing the IR first and decided to spend it on more multi experience, and I like flying twins!

The VFR nav was a little more taxing with the cowlings in the way but if you're navigating to CPL standard it isn't really a big deal IMO. A big bonus was no PFLs. A number of people I spoke to had partialled on PFLs in the single. Though I had some assymmetric work, I was up to speed on that after the IR.

Overall, I think what I did suited me but wouldn't work for everyone. If your time on complex a/c, single or twin, is low I would follow the 'normal' route. Twins at commercial rates are frighteningly expensive and you don't want to load yourself with any more learning than you have to at that price...