Oxford vs Bournemouth eptauk
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: UK
Posts: 603
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Sorry! I apologise for the little dig 
I just knew this was going to be another Integrated vs Modular debate!!
MikeChannon.com; firstly need to loose the music, I cringed but doesn't look like any of them have got jobs despite flashy websites. Althoug I imainge that will change. SOme of these guys will find employment, just like many others from different school, flying training background etc. What matters is you. You can spend 70k or 30k on training. If you are a tw*t you arent going to get hired.
Like I have said channex do not take integrated only, they took two modular guys through CTC's ATP scheme March 2003.
I just knew this was going to be another Integrated vs Modular debate!!
MikeChannon.com; firstly need to loose the music, I cringed but doesn't look like any of them have got jobs despite flashy websites. Althoug I imainge that will change. SOme of these guys will find employment, just like many others from different school, flying training background etc. What matters is you. You can spend 70k or 30k on training. If you are a tw*t you arent going to get hired.
Like I have said channex do not take integrated only, they took two modular guys through CTC's ATP scheme March 2003.
Jet Blast Rat
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Sarfend-on-Sea
Age: 51
Posts: 2,081
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
BillieBob, all the Channex pilots I know did modular training. Same with Citiex, if that was a typo. All the airlines in which people I know have got jobs recently have taken modular students on the same basis as integrated, except those that sponsor (even some of them now use CTC, a modular course). As WWW says, there is no recruiting at the moment thet requires integrated training, except for some of the sponsorship schemes. I now work for a modular school (BCFT in Bournemouth), by the way, but was very irritated when I was training by a school that offer both only trying to sell me a completely inappropriate integrated course, and not even telling me there was another option.
Join Date: Nov 1999
Location: uk
Posts: 29
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
OOOOO ! ! what a lot of egos on display. The whole point of WWW forever posting 'his 'route' is that he probably was clever than most and he was going to succeed whatever route he took.You should ask the less gifted who took the same route as WWW how did they fare? Answer :- about £20,000 more for the same thing as WWW. However, he is man enough to admit that integrated will suit some but not others. I have met some incredibly sharp and erudite students on integrated and equally I have met some incredibly dull and whatever on modular. So long as there is no selection process for wannabees to enrol in a course to attempt to attain a Commercial Flying Licence then FTOs will exist to 'nurture these young men/girls dreams'. At the end of the day I have seen students on their SIXTH attempt to pass the IRT suceed....and believe me or not go on to attain Airline jobs.
In my Royal Air Force days it was always the the boring old f...ts who in my experience found their way into airlines and the really sharp cookies who stayed in 'interesting jobs...I haven't one hour of second pilot in my log book they would boast....
Horses for courses but as I listened today to all the Airline pilots buzzing around DTY, BADIM, CPT 'no speed restriction' FL110 by Westcott' etc. etc I am reminded of the BMI student who taxying past the aircraft parked and ready to fly to the Antarctica said to me' Now that's the job I really want' !
In my Royal Air Force days it was always the the boring old f...ts who in my experience found their way into airlines and the really sharp cookies who stayed in 'interesting jobs...I haven't one hour of second pilot in my log book they would boast....
Horses for courses but as I listened today to all the Airline pilots buzzing around DTY, BADIM, CPT 'no speed restriction' FL110 by Westcott' etc. etc I am reminded of the BMI student who taxying past the aircraft parked and ready to fly to the Antarctica said to me' Now that's the job I really want' !
By the same token, I have seen some incredibly sharp and erudite students on modular courses and some incredibly dull and whatever on integrated. I well remember the CAP509 course student who finally passed his IRT on the third attempt in the third series, after which the CAA, in those far off days, would refuse to continue testing.
Don't get me wrong, there is nothing wrong with the integrated course, and its structure and discipline suits some people better than modular. The point we are trying to make is that there is no inherent advantage to integrated over modular, despite the hogwash that the marketing departments of the 'major' schools may wish to peddle, and there is certainly no demonstrable advantage to Oxford's risible APP course.
Thanks for your comments, Send Clowns - QED methinks.
Don't get me wrong, there is nothing wrong with the integrated course, and its structure and discipline suits some people better than modular. The point we are trying to make is that there is no inherent advantage to integrated over modular, despite the hogwash that the marketing departments of the 'major' schools may wish to peddle, and there is certainly no demonstrable advantage to Oxford's risible APP course.
Thanks for your comments, Send Clowns - QED methinks.
40yr flyer - except that wasn't my route. 400hrs on service aircraft, an abridged BCPL FI course with a job already lined up taking me into commercial instructing.
My illustration was merely to refure the point that Integrated is 'quicker' than Modular. I threw in cheaper and better for the hell of it.
Cheers
WWW
My illustration was merely to refure the point that Integrated is 'quicker' than Modular. I threw in cheaper and better for the hell of it.
Cheers
WWW
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Dorset
Posts: 775
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I will make no comments concerning integrated courses because I have never been involved in them. But I can confirm that modular training can be completed much more quickly than many people imagine.
As an example, one of our students who joined the ATPL groundschool last November completed his MCC during early August this year. If we make a reasonably generous allowance of three months for the PPL and hour building (August to October) before starting the groundschool, that makes 12 months (August 2003 to August 2004). ( or 12.5 months if we want to be pedantic). This is not at all unusal and is probably achievable at any of the modular schools.
The student in question was quite bright, but by no means unique. He actually failed one module 2 groundschool exam, but picked it up at his second attempt along with first time passes at all of his module three exams.
I can also recall another student who had major problems with his groundschool exams (failed most of module 1). But he still completed his entire training (PPL, groundschool, CPL, IR and MCC) within 15 months.
If you have enough determination you can complete all of your training very quickly through the modular route. You can of course do it more slowly if you wish.
As an example, one of our students who joined the ATPL groundschool last November completed his MCC during early August this year. If we make a reasonably generous allowance of three months for the PPL and hour building (August to October) before starting the groundschool, that makes 12 months (August 2003 to August 2004). ( or 12.5 months if we want to be pedantic). This is not at all unusal and is probably achievable at any of the modular schools.
The student in question was quite bright, but by no means unique. He actually failed one module 2 groundschool exam, but picked it up at his second attempt along with first time passes at all of his module three exams.
I can also recall another student who had major problems with his groundschool exams (failed most of module 1). But he still completed his entire training (PPL, groundschool, CPL, IR and MCC) within 15 months.
If you have enough determination you can complete all of your training very quickly through the modular route. You can of course do it more slowly if you wish.
I have already heard from an old oat student about oxford.
What would be useful if any current or ex students of EPTAUK Bournemouth could express their first hand experiences of the flight school on this thread.
Would be a great help
Best regards
Mooneyboy
What would be useful if any current or ex students of EPTAUK Bournemouth could express their first hand experiences of the flight school on this thread.
Would be a great help
Best regards
Mooneyboy
What looks to be the case is that you can be farting around in modular or intergrated ( look at those people who finnished OAT). I suppose luck can also come into it.
Mooneyboy
Mooneyboy
Butler - what precisely was 'farting about'?
As I have gone to some lengths to illustrate you can complete the modular training in less time than the integrated.
You will then have more money in your back pocket and an equal chance of an airline job to someone who has just finished at Kiddlington, de La Frontera or Bedford. With said money you can qualify as a Flying Instructor if you are good enough or pay for a type rating or enrol on a plumbers course.
Believe me - the farting around involved is very high when you are one of 14 on a course in a school of 14 courses trying to fly one of 14 serviceable aircraft this morning. I've seen it and worked in it.
Student / Instructor / Aircraft ratios - the thing that schools really don't want to tell you...
Cheers
WWW
As I have gone to some lengths to illustrate you can complete the modular training in less time than the integrated.
You will then have more money in your back pocket and an equal chance of an airline job to someone who has just finished at Kiddlington, de La Frontera or Bedford. With said money you can qualify as a Flying Instructor if you are good enough or pay for a type rating or enrol on a plumbers course.
Believe me - the farting around involved is very high when you are one of 14 on a course in a school of 14 courses trying to fly one of 14 serviceable aircraft this morning. I've seen it and worked in it.
Student / Instructor / Aircraft ratios - the thing that schools really don't want to tell you...
Cheers
WWW
Join Date: Dec 1997
Location: Suffolk UK
Posts: 4,927
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I think The Butler's point was that he can't be bothered to do any of the legwork involved in your route, WWW, he wants it all handed to him on a plate! Methinks he might have a shock coming.....
Scroggs
Scroggs
Join Date: May 2003
Location: North
Posts: 24
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Surely the moderators of this site ought to be setting a better example than sinking the the level of those who choose to be personally critical about others here?
I have a feeling that the glitch in Flying Farmer's training report was connected with the demise of SFT and the connection between that company and EPTA. If so commiserations from a fellow sufferer.
Once again, DON'T pay up front for training, or learn the hard way like I did.
I have a feeling that the glitch in Flying Farmer's training report was connected with the demise of SFT and the connection between that company and EPTA. If so commiserations from a fellow sufferer.
Once again, DON'T pay up front for training, or learn the hard way like I did.
Don't look to us as examples - we reserve the right to be total miscreants.
Cheers
WWW
Cheers
WWW
Join Date: Dec 1997
Location: Suffolk UK
Posts: 4,927
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
zcar, I'm not a servant to those who would rather the work was done by others. I am happy to inform, but I reserve the right to express my opinion of those who I think are wasting our time, or wasting their own, by denying the legitimacy of our advice without offering reasons for an alternative course of action or thought.
I'm not here to massage egos. If I think someone's a tw@t, I'll say so. You may note that I haven't said so in this case.
Scroggs
I'm not here to massage egos. If I think someone's a tw@t, I'll say so. You may note that I haven't said so in this case.
Scroggs
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: UK
Posts: 244
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
After some extensive perusal of various aviation-related sites (including this one) and after having sent for various FTO brochures and spoken to various pilots on the line at the airline I work for, I can't honestly see any reason to choose Oxford's (integrated) courses over those (modular) ones available at places such as eptauk. Indeed, I intend to go down the modular route myself.
However, what gets me are comments on ppjn such as:
What are we supposed to make of such comments? - you could be forgiven for concluding that successful completion of an integrated course at Oxford or Jerez would increase your chances of ending up with GB/flybe./Britannia.
I know for a fact that the airline I work for employs pilots with a huge variety of training backgrounds, but does this apply at all UK airlines? I guess not.
Still, I'm going down the modular route, which I believe represents better value. I find it quite depressing that some quite deserving people might be shelling out £55000+ for a licence but no job. Still, this industry can be a b****!
regards
However, what gets me are comments on ppjn such as:
Low hours F/O's (requirement of 40 during 2004) are only taken from Oxford Aviation and at present are all going onto Q400 fleet.
Cadet - Jerez or Oxford ab initio graduates with 200 hours.
I know for a fact that the airline I work for employs pilots with a huge variety of training backgrounds, but does this apply at all UK airlines? I guess not.
Still, I'm going down the modular route, which I believe represents better value. I find it quite depressing that some quite deserving people might be shelling out £55000+ for a licence but no job. Still, this industry can be a b****!
regards
Jet Blast Rat
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Sarfend-on-Sea
Age: 51
Posts: 2,081
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I know for a fact that the airline I work for employs pilots with a huge variety of training backgrounds, but does this apply at all UK airlines?
Other airlines will compare a modular graduate (230 hours off the course, £12,000 saved to spend on other courses, some independent flying under their belt) favourably with an integrated graduate (170 hours of closely-monitored flying).
Join Date: May 2003
Location: North
Posts: 24
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Scroggs, I don't mind if you do, as I don't know you.
I don't think my point was directed at you in particular, although your remark did provoke me to write, as has your second remark.
I just think it would be better for moderators to rise above instead of sinking to a level. That way the position of moderator would be well deserved.
Presently some moderators may seem, in the eyes of some readers, to be making similarly cheap comments as those they are supposed to be moderating. This is a shame.
The backstabbing and bickering which occurs spoils this site for those who have no interest in getting involved in it.
I don't think my point was directed at you in particular, although your remark did provoke me to write, as has your second remark.
I just think it would be better for moderators to rise above instead of sinking to a level. That way the position of moderator would be well deserved.
Presently some moderators may seem, in the eyes of some readers, to be making similarly cheap comments as those they are supposed to be moderating. This is a shame.
The backstabbing and bickering which occurs spoils this site for those who have no interest in getting involved in it.
zcar - moderators have little remit to be moderate. I regularly stir things up around here - it can get somewhat stale...
Backstabbing and bickering is part of the industry so get used to it - though I think mostly here it is banter. To be frank with you the fact is that the most useful information - the most informative threads - are often those that feature heated debates.
Very many threads fall into the worthy but dull category, impart little and are soon forgotten. Some of the hum dingers we have had have illuminated a range of important issues that otherwise go unknown to many Wannabes.
Look at Wannabe threads that run over 4 pages or more and they are usually argumentative and inflammatory. Nevertheless - they tend as a class to contain more insight and information than the norm.
Cheers
WWW
Backstabbing and bickering is part of the industry so get used to it - though I think mostly here it is banter. To be frank with you the fact is that the most useful information - the most informative threads - are often those that feature heated debates.
Very many threads fall into the worthy but dull category, impart little and are soon forgotten. Some of the hum dingers we have had have illuminated a range of important issues that otherwise go unknown to many Wannabes.
Look at Wannabe threads that run over 4 pages or more and they are usually argumentative and inflammatory. Nevertheless - they tend as a class to contain more insight and information than the norm.
Cheers
WWW
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: UK
Posts: 16
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
What's important here is not what the hiring is like now, its what its gonna be like in 2 yrs time when us wanabees are looking for that first job. If things carry on as they are doing at the mo, i.e/ gradually picking up and more hiring slowly but surely (so I believe) then what does anyone reckon the difference is gonna be then? Will there be any preferences over modular or integrated? Any thoughts WWW or Scroggs?
Ive heard loads of opinions from different people already in the industry, some saying that you're best doing integrated and others saying its a waste of money. So what the f do ya do?
Another thing, the main problem with deciding on the route is that its only really for that first job. Once you\'ve got the hours behind you in a jet, its a lot easier to find work yeah? no matter where you went.
Ive heard of these places in the states where you can buy a type rating AND hours flying on them as a package. An expensive package, I think $55000 for 737/757/767 with x number of hours. I can\'t remember the exact amount sorry.
Integrated + type rating + living costs etc = c.£100,000
Modular + type rating + 250 or so hours on type + extra = more like £75,000?
Im not going for exact figures here so dont have a go about them, my point is that its quite a bit less and you\'ve got a little bit of experience.
I haven\'t looked into these deals properly yet but they sound like a good idea. Any thoughts?
Sounds like a lot of farting about though...
Ive heard loads of opinions from different people already in the industry, some saying that you're best doing integrated and others saying its a waste of money. So what the f do ya do?
Another thing, the main problem with deciding on the route is that its only really for that first job. Once you\'ve got the hours behind you in a jet, its a lot easier to find work yeah? no matter where you went.
Ive heard of these places in the states where you can buy a type rating AND hours flying on them as a package. An expensive package, I think $55000 for 737/757/767 with x number of hours. I can\'t remember the exact amount sorry.
Integrated + type rating + living costs etc = c.£100,000
Modular + type rating + 250 or so hours on type + extra = more like £75,000?
Im not going for exact figures here so dont have a go about them, my point is that its quite a bit less and you\'ve got a little bit of experience.
I haven\'t looked into these deals properly yet but they sound like a good idea. Any thoughts?
Sounds like a lot of farting about though...