ATPL Integrated course jobsearch
Thread Starter
Joined: Feb 2004
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From: Manchester
ATPL Integrated course jobsearch
I have recently passed selection for the Airline Preparation Programme at Oxford Aviation Training and commence training on the 20th September 2004 for 65 weeks. Upon qualification I am in a position to self fund a type rating and even work the first 12 months as first officer with no remuneration package, can anybody please point me in the right direction for some feedback on such a proposal, many thanks. Dean Hewart
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 1,122
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From: Neither Here Nor There
Wow!
You don't have a part time job that involves taking large bank overdrafts (between 2 - 4 a.m.!!!!). Any vacancies?
Can't help with your question but best of luck, Dean. I look forward to the advice you get.
You don't have a part time job that involves taking large bank overdrafts (between 2 - 4 a.m.!!!!). Any vacancies?
Can't help with your question but best of luck, Dean. I look forward to the advice you get.
at OATS should be able to point you in the right direction.....or even get you a job. thats the whole point of the APP scheme anyway.Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 272
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From: UK
someone who is planning on working for a year for nothing even before starting their training really needs their head examined. Have a look at some of the threads in rumours and news to see what professional pilots think about wannabes planning on working for free 
What's next, provide your own plane???
What's next, provide your own plane???
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 80
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From: somewhere
Did you ever asked why airlines are going to exploit pilots and why salaries are going lower and lower ?
You actually want to buy your first job. That's not training anymore, that's SLAVERY. Facts.
I'm sorry to say that but people like you are going to ruine the whole profession, and i'm not kidding.
One day (not so far away i fear) you'll be asked to pay for the privilege to put your ass on the left seat too.
Please think twice, you're not alone
You actually want to buy your first job. That's not training anymore, that's SLAVERY. Facts.
I'm sorry to say that but people like you are going to ruine the whole profession, and i'm not kidding.
One day (not so far away i fear) you'll be asked to pay for the privilege to put your ass on the left seat too.
Please think twice, you're not alone
Jet Blast Rat
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 2,081
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From: Sarfend-on-Sea
If you can afford that, dhewart, why not go the "traditional" route? Get a CPL/IR from a modular course*, then an FI(R). Instruct for a year instead of working for free. Current evidence from my acquaintances suggests that if you want an airline post you're more likely to get a proper, paid job in that first year than you are to get offered immediate work after self-sponsored type rating.
You will spend less, and have more flight experience. At the same time you will learn a fantastic amount about how to fly (my FI course was a revelation, and subsequent experience has made my flying better than it has ever been), and probably a lot about aviation. You will gain more respect from fellow pilots and the job will be with an employer who respects you. You cannot expect decent treatment from anyone willing to let you work without pay.
You may even find, as I have, that you actually like flying so much you'd rather take reduced pay and wait a little longer to find a job flying smaller aircraft than hop straight into pushing buttons in a big jet
* Modular seems to be better for people who are going to instruct PPL students, in my limited experience, because they know how a well-structured PPL course runs and have flown independently.
You will spend less, and have more flight experience. At the same time you will learn a fantastic amount about how to fly (my FI course was a revelation, and subsequent experience has made my flying better than it has ever been), and probably a lot about aviation. You will gain more respect from fellow pilots and the job will be with an employer who respects you. You cannot expect decent treatment from anyone willing to let you work without pay.
You may even find, as I have, that you actually like flying so much you'd rather take reduced pay and wait a little longer to find a job flying smaller aircraft than hop straight into pushing buttons in a big jet
* Modular seems to be better for people who are going to instruct PPL students, in my limited experience, because they know how a well-structured PPL course runs and have flown independently.
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 361
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From: uk
How about getting through the course first before asking for such advice. In the aviation world, things can change pretty quickly - just look at what happened after Sept 11th. Hundreds lost their jobs, there is now an excess of qualified pilots all looking for jobs. If something similar to 9/11 happens again, we could all be up !!!!! creek.
Good Luck with your training, but I'd at least get half way through before you start searching for a job and offering to work for free.
Good Luck with your training, but I'd at least get half way through before you start searching for a job and offering to work for free.
Chieftan o'the Pudden Race
Joined: Nov 1997
Posts: 826
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From: Scotland usually, and often other parts of Europe
I continue to be dumbfounded.
To all those who want to pay to work, keep going you are just going to kill the industry for the rest of us - but why should you care?
For an industry that relies on people being able to work closely together as team, we seem to quite adept at stabbing each other in the back.
I believe there is now an organisation that is offering 500 hours of line experience for people who have completed a type rating, to my befuddled brain that equates to a first officer paying to work for year. Top deal for the company involved, as they can dump the F/O at the end of the year and there is another mug ready to part with yet another 10,000 or 20,000 pounds for the "privilege" of operating a 737 or A320. Makes you wonder what the insurance implications are if there was an incident. I guess we wont find out until there is an accident.
I wont go over the familiar trodden ground about the ethics and effectiveness of buying a type rating again, but I am getting sick to the back teeth of people assuming that they need to buy a type rating. I am beginning to see this aviation industry slowly becoming a mugs game if you want to be a pilot, and we are all walking into it with our eyes wide open.
Where is BALPA and the IPA in all of this? This is a much more serious threat to safety, employment standards & terms and conditions than flagging out ever was.
There might be that fantastic feeling of punching through low overcast to sun drenched white puffy cloud tops while driving a nice shiney jet, but for goodness sake, it is still a job which should pay the mortgage, service the bank loans required to get the licence and keep feeding the kids. Sadly the more I read PPRuNe the less likely I see that becoming.
To all those who want to pay to work, keep going you are just going to kill the industry for the rest of us - but why should you care?
For an industry that relies on people being able to work closely together as team, we seem to quite adept at stabbing each other in the back.
I believe there is now an organisation that is offering 500 hours of line experience for people who have completed a type rating, to my befuddled brain that equates to a first officer paying to work for year. Top deal for the company involved, as they can dump the F/O at the end of the year and there is another mug ready to part with yet another 10,000 or 20,000 pounds for the "privilege" of operating a 737 or A320. Makes you wonder what the insurance implications are if there was an incident. I guess we wont find out until there is an accident.
I wont go over the familiar trodden ground about the ethics and effectiveness of buying a type rating again, but I am getting sick to the back teeth of people assuming that they need to buy a type rating. I am beginning to see this aviation industry slowly becoming a mugs game if you want to be a pilot, and we are all walking into it with our eyes wide open.
Where is BALPA and the IPA in all of this? This is a much more serious threat to safety, employment standards & terms and conditions than flagging out ever was.
There might be that fantastic feeling of punching through low overcast to sun drenched white puffy cloud tops while driving a nice shiney jet, but for goodness sake, it is still a job which should pay the mortgage, service the bank loans required to get the licence and keep feeding the kids. Sadly the more I read PPRuNe the less likely I see that becoming.
