Electronic Flight computers or WhizzWheels for ATPL exams?
Thread Starter
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From: Ireland
Electronic Flight computers or WhizzWheels for ATPL exams?
I'm looking for a professional flight computer and was just wondering would it be worth getting an electronic one. I know some of them have memory registers so would that mean that i couldnt use them in my ATPL exams? Thanks
Steve
Steve
Jet Blast Rat
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From: Sarfend-on-Sea
Electronic flight computers are not allowed at all in JAA exams. Use the CRP-5 - it is used by the examiners to calculate the answers. It is also in many ways superior to an electronic flight computer, expecialy for genuine planning. This is mostly because of the estimating required and the visual nature of the vector calculator making mistakes obvious if you are good at using it.
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From: seat 0A
The CRP-5 whizzwheel is the only flight computer the CAA will allow you to use in the ATPL exams, which makes the decision fairly simple.
You are also allowed to use an electronic calculator, but it must be non-programmable and have a non-alphanumeric memory.
Hope that helps,
Al
You are also allowed to use an electronic calculator, but it must be non-programmable and have a non-alphanumeric memory.
Hope that helps,
Al
Jet Blast Rat
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From: Sarfend-on-Sea
Doesn't actually have to be a CRP-5 model (that is specifically the Pooley's one) but that is the best I know on the market, and I teach Gen Nav. Other cheaper flight computers often do not have all the required functions (e.g. compressibility), and might not be so clear in presentation and in labeling.
TightYorksherMan
Joined: May 2002
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From: Peak District
I have the ARC 1 - its the same size and does all the functions of the Pooleys CRP5. However I find it much clearer and I think its about £10 cheaper than Pooleys.
AFE sell the ARC1
Best of luck
Jinkster
AFE sell the ARC1
Best of luck
Jinkster
Joined: Dec 2003
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From: Derby
Crp-5's
Learn to use them because you'll also need them for flying anyway.
Besides that, Crp5's are not that much different from the inaccurate (or so they say) E6-B. It works the same way except the wind is marked down from the grommet instead of up from the grommet.
The real deal is though that the E6-B cannot help you with questions involving liters/kg/lbs with specific gravity of .75/.73/ etc.
It cannot help you calculate for incrompressibility errors. It cannot convert yards into inches.
Other differences> The Crp5 doesn't have info on the back side to help you do the calculations like the E6-B does. There's a low speed side and a high on the Crp-5 (On the Ebby you have only one speed/wind side).
The good news> If you used the E6-B then the conversion over to the Crp-5 shouldn't take you more than a week to get used to.
To those who own electronic gadgets that they hope to use in the exams> Don't bother, they won't let you go in there with anything else but a calculator (a normal none programmable one where you can press fancy buttons like> Sin, Cos, etc.) and your Crp-5 as well as of course any chart you may need for the exam.
Besides that, Crp5's are not that much different from the inaccurate (or so they say) E6-B. It works the same way except the wind is marked down from the grommet instead of up from the grommet.
The real deal is though that the E6-B cannot help you with questions involving liters/kg/lbs with specific gravity of .75/.73/ etc.
It cannot help you calculate for incrompressibility errors. It cannot convert yards into inches.
Other differences> The Crp5 doesn't have info on the back side to help you do the calculations like the E6-B does. There's a low speed side and a high on the Crp-5 (On the Ebby you have only one speed/wind side).
The good news> If you used the E6-B then the conversion over to the Crp-5 shouldn't take you more than a week to get used to.
To those who own electronic gadgets that they hope to use in the exams> Don't bother, they won't let you go in there with anything else but a calculator (a normal none programmable one where you can press fancy buttons like> Sin, Cos, etc.) and your Crp-5 as well as of course any chart you may need for the exam.
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From: Escapee from Ultima Thule
I've used the CR type (a CR5, specifically) for all my ATPLs, incl. the UK one. I find it easier & quicker to use than a slide type - especially for some problems. It's also pocket sized.
The argument concerning 'CRP5 is the one the examiners use' is irrelevent. In the class with ~ half doz. CR users using the smallest or second smallest type (and therefore least accurate) we all consistantly got a smaller spread of answers between us than the CRP5 users. Our answers always agreed with the median answers from the CRP5 users.
The catch with using one in the UK is of course the lack of instructor knowledge about them although the instruction book is easy enough to follow.
Curious that the UK never embraced or has hardly even heard of them...
The argument concerning 'CRP5 is the one the examiners use' is irrelevent. In the class with ~ half doz. CR users using the smallest or second smallest type (and therefore least accurate) we all consistantly got a smaller spread of answers between us than the CRP5 users. Our answers always agreed with the median answers from the CRP5 users.
The catch with using one in the UK is of course the lack of instructor knowledge about them although the instruction book is easy enough to follow.
Curious that the UK never embraced or has hardly even heard of them...
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From: Blighty - On secondment
"The catch with using one in the UK is of course the lack of instructor knowledge about them although the instruction book is easy enough to follow.
Curious that the UK never embraced or has hardly even heard of them... "
Which flight computer you use all depends on uniform!
The Pooleys computer requires a jacket to be worn up front. Nice blazer with four bars complete with breast pocket for the rather large wind slide thingy. The rest of us just slip the Jepp CR machine into our shirt pocket.
Why even carry a flight computor these days? Isn't that what the FO for? I guess it is a bit like carrying a spare bulb for your torch when flying at night, you never know when you might need it. Flight computer, I never leave home without one!
Curious that the UK never embraced or has hardly even heard of them... "
Which flight computer you use all depends on uniform!
The Pooleys computer requires a jacket to be worn up front. Nice blazer with four bars complete with breast pocket for the rather large wind slide thingy. The rest of us just slip the Jepp CR machine into our shirt pocket.
Why even carry a flight computor these days? Isn't that what the FO for? I guess it is a bit like carrying a spare bulb for your torch when flying at night, you never know when you might need it. Flight computer, I never leave home without one!
Joined: May 2001
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Err when did I last use a whizz wheel at work?
Last used in anger on my Gen nav exam for my ATPL's
Tried to use it for planning on my IR and got laughed at and shown the clock face, max drift method. Back in the bag again.
CPL, didn't even think about using it.
PPL instruction, took it out the bag about once every 2 months to show a student the differences between a CRP 1 and 5.
As a first officer: used the edge of the wind bit to scrape the ice off a hire car window.
MJ
Last used in anger on my Gen nav exam for my ATPL's
Tried to use it for planning on my IR and got laughed at and shown the clock face, max drift method. Back in the bag again.
CPL, didn't even think about using it.
PPL instruction, took it out the bag about once every 2 months to show a student the differences between a CRP 1 and 5.
As a first officer: used the edge of the wind bit to scrape the ice off a hire car window.
MJ
Joined: Dec 1998
Posts: 4,282
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From: Escapee from Ultima Thule
Yes. At work I always have mine in my shirt pocket. I frequently have to operate at night along a route without an on-track DME in range & with the sole available alternate at maximum fuel range. If the wind increases it can put my alternate(s) out of range. Using my CR5 I can monitor my G/S using an off-track DME.
Plus there's the handy fuel<-->mass conversion.
Plus there's the handy fuel<-->mass conversion.
Joined: May 1999
Aviation Qualifications: ATP+Mil
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From: Quite near 'An aerodrome somewhere in England'
It always causes raised eyebrows when I go to programme meetings and whip out the trusty whizz-wheel to do IAS/TAS/IMN conversions!
Use the reverse side more than the front face - and I only use that for the occasional track/GS calc to check students' work. But the GS v time bit on the back is so simple for working out time at visual fix points. Far easier than an electronic one - you just set up the analogue once rather than having to perform the calc every time digitally.
Steam whizz-wheels don't have batteries which go flat either! I'd never bother buying an electronic nav computer!
Use the reverse side more than the front face - and I only use that for the occasional track/GS calc to check students' work. But the GS v time bit on the back is so simple for working out time at visual fix points. Far easier than an electronic one - you just set up the analogue once rather than having to perform the calc every time digitally.
Steam whizz-wheels don't have batteries which go flat either! I'd never bother buying an electronic nav computer!
Joined: May 2003
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From: UK
I've just started the JAA groundschool (distance) in order to convert my ICAO CPL.
With regards to the circular slide I have never really found this type of computer useful. I bought three different types during my PPL training many years ago and in the hope of finding one I could comfortably get to grips with. I fumbled along like this for some time - flight planning was a mammoth task sometimes. Eventually, I got introduced to a CX-2 electronic device. I find this easy, accurate and quick. I understand it's limitations but have never had cause to question it's usefulness - neither at planning stage nor in-flight.
My concerns came when I met to discuss my first flying contract - non airline. I raised the question of flight planning and equipment. The operator said that it's a matter of personal opinion but that most pilot's used an electronic type if required. My CX-2 was still of use.
I don't knock the use of CRP5 or similar kit (just because I couldn't get to grips with them) but neither should an electronic device be scorned. One might even say that you need to be more careful with the data you put in to an elec device - I agree entirely. But that could be considered the same as with a GPS unit - or, pehaps more appropriately, an FMC. Garbage in = garbage out. As for batteries, reliability etc - it's part of your kit, you look after it, it remains serviceable. Batteries are to the computer like batteries are to my torch or fuel to my aircraft.
The electronic flight computer. It's just my opinion guy's. I have never had a problem with it whether flight planning or in-flight. I am not affraid to tackle any flight planning issues with it. It's a useful device that is not cumbersome.
I get smirks from student pilots when i mention that I use this device - like I am cheating or something. But infact the opposite was true when talking amongst my fellow pilots on contract.
Any how. I must now get back to my studies. Looks like the next chapter talks about the CRP5 - so here goes £70.
Cheers.
With regards to the circular slide I have never really found this type of computer useful. I bought three different types during my PPL training many years ago and in the hope of finding one I could comfortably get to grips with. I fumbled along like this for some time - flight planning was a mammoth task sometimes. Eventually, I got introduced to a CX-2 electronic device. I find this easy, accurate and quick. I understand it's limitations but have never had cause to question it's usefulness - neither at planning stage nor in-flight.
My concerns came when I met to discuss my first flying contract - non airline. I raised the question of flight planning and equipment. The operator said that it's a matter of personal opinion but that most pilot's used an electronic type if required. My CX-2 was still of use.
I don't knock the use of CRP5 or similar kit (just because I couldn't get to grips with them) but neither should an electronic device be scorned. One might even say that you need to be more careful with the data you put in to an elec device - I agree entirely. But that could be considered the same as with a GPS unit - or, pehaps more appropriately, an FMC. Garbage in = garbage out. As for batteries, reliability etc - it's part of your kit, you look after it, it remains serviceable. Batteries are to the computer like batteries are to my torch or fuel to my aircraft.
The electronic flight computer. It's just my opinion guy's. I have never had a problem with it whether flight planning or in-flight. I am not affraid to tackle any flight planning issues with it. It's a useful device that is not cumbersome.
I get smirks from student pilots when i mention that I use this device - like I am cheating or something. But infact the opposite was true when talking amongst my fellow pilots on contract.
Any how. I must now get back to my studies. Looks like the next chapter talks about the CRP5 - so here goes £70.
Cheers.
Joined: Jan 2004
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From: Hill Street Blues
I bought a CX-2 or what ever its called when i was in Florida doing my PPL in 2003, I could not get the hang of the EB-6.
As you are only alowed to use the a Whizz wheel on your ATPL's well i bought a crap-5. I now dont know where i would be with out it.
I may be sad, but you have to be good with it to pass you Gen Nav, if you haven't mastered it by then you are in the crapper.
Once you get used to using one you are laughing, would not be without it now, no idea where i put the electronic gadget.
FF
As you are only alowed to use the a Whizz wheel on your ATPL's well i bought a crap-5. I now dont know where i would be with out it.
I may be sad, but you have to be good with it to pass you Gen Nav, if you haven't mastered it by then you are in the crapper.
Once you get used to using one you are laughing, would not be without it now, no idea where i put the electronic gadget.
FF
