JAA CPL checkride is it hard???

[Jimmy The Big Greek]

Hi I tried to find info about the JAA CPL checkride but could'nt find any revelevant info.
I just saw some really basic manuvers like 45 degree turns, full stalls.

There where NO 60 degree turns, lazy eights, chandells stall in turn etc.

I also could'nt find any info regarding allowable altitude and heading deviations.

Is the JAA CPL easier than the FAA ATPL checkride.

[FlyingForFun]

Manoevres such as chandelles and lazy eights are specific to the FAA CPL. I don't know if that necessarilly means that the JAR CPL is easier, though - just different - but not having done an FAA CPL I don't really know.

There is very little information available on what is involved in the CPL - and it's for precisely that reason that I kept a diary of my CPL on this forum. The search facility has been disabled right now, so I can't easilly find it, but if you go back through the archives it should be there somewhere - the last post would have been towards the start of December 2003. Bear in mind, if you read my diary, that the syllabus has changed since I did my CPL - there is far less emphasis on instrument flying now than there was then.

FFF
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[The Yank]

FAA Vs. JAA

Having taken (and still teach) both the FAA and JAA Skills tests they are both just different. The FAA is more geared toward A/C handling where the JAA is more toward navigation, and all around piloting skills. Visual General Handling (upper air work) on the FAA is more difficult but the JAA incorporate an Instrument GH section witch is much harder than the FAA. The FAA seem less concerned about Pilotage and Dead reckoning on the navigation and without a little extra training somebody passing the FAA check ride would find the JAA a little difficult.

[Send Clowns]

I knew that there was a lot of manoeuvring on the FAA PPL (the only PPL I ever had) but why do the FAA want commercial pilots to perform aerobatics - albeit very gentle ones like the lazy 8 and chandelle? Seems very strange. Always did think the lack of stall in the final turn in the JAA skills test was an oversight though.

[Jimmy The Big Greek]

ok thanks for the very quick respons (sa usual).

So, aren't there any maximum deviations. Like when I took the FAA ATPL it was maximum +- 25ft if I'am nor remembering wrong.

Can you give more specific example how they test deadreckoning and pilotage.

I beleveive that I need MORE training in VFR navigation. I was never so good at it. Hated it. Then again I was really good in IFR.
Haven't flown VFR navigation past 1200 hours or so

[FlyingForFun]

Jimmy,

Limits in JAR-world are only ever recommendations, the examiner is always able to use his discretion, e.g. if it happens to be a particularly bumpy day. (There are exceptions to this - minima for an instrument approach, for example, are always absolute - but none that apply to the CPL as far as I know.)

I can't remember the exact recommended maximum deviations - someone like Keygrip may be able to help you with the exact details. From memory (so they may be wrong), it's +/- 100' altitude, +/- 2 mins to arrive overhead or within a set distance (3nm?) of your destination, +/- 10kts on all airspeeds. I may have that completely wrong, though.

One thing which the examiner will make clear (well, Keygrip made it clear to me, I don't know if all examiners are the same) is that discretion can work both ways. For example: +/- 100' on altitude. If you notice the altitude is 110' higher than it should be, and immediately comment on it, and smoothly apply a positive correction, you won't fail. On the other hand, if you fly the whole of your navigation leg 90' above the altitude you planned, you will fail. So the message, really, is not to get too fixed on the details, but just fly as accurately as you can.

Once again, I refer you to my CPL Diary thread, because at the end of the thread Keygrip made a couple of excellent posts, including a complete transcript of a typical pre-flight brief from examiner to candidate for the test, and this will probably include most, if not all, of the requirements for the test.

FFF
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[Keygrip]

Altitude - normal flight - plus or minus 100 feet.
Simulated single engine (if you decide to do the flight in a twin) - plus/minus 150 feet.
Limited Panel Instrument Flying - plus/minus 200 feet.

Radio aid tracking - plus/minus 5 degrees

Heading - all engines - plus/minus 10 degrees
Simulated engine failure - plus/minus 15 degrees
Limited Panel Instrument - plus/minus 15 degrees

Speeds: (knots)

Take off (Vr) plus 5, minus zero
Climb & Approach plus/minus 10
Vat/Vref plus five, minus zero
Cruise, plus/minus ten
Limited Panel, plus/minus ten
Simulated engine failure, plus ten, minus five
Blue Line, plus/minus five
maximum error at any time - plus/minus ten

[LFS]

You should read: http://www.caa.co.uk/docs/33/SRG_FCL_03.PDF 'Guidance Notes For Candidates Taking The CPL Skill Test' for full details of the test profile.

[Jimmy The Big Greek]

ok, thanks alot

[Jimmy The Big Greek]

One last question.

If somebody fails the checkride. Must he do the checkride from the beginning or just the part he failed.

[Keygrip]

Sigh,

Jimmy - would it be SO hard to read the link that LFS posted for you. All the asnwers are there.

CPL checkride is in five "sections" for single engine aircraft and six sections for multi engine.

Failure of any one single section is called a "Partial Pass" and requires that the candidate be retested on that failed section PLUS the departure from (section one) and return to (part of section four) the airfield.

Failure of any one of those sections then requires the whole thing to be flown again - all five (or six) sections.

Failure of more than one single section in the first attempt is classed as a 'FAIL' and the entire flight test must be repeated (and paid for again).