Does it matter where you trained if you have 4-5k hrs under your belt?
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Does it matter where you trained if you have 4-5k hrs under your belt?
I am a citizen of a South East Asian country but have been living and working in the UK since my late teens. I'm at the moment considering studying for my fATPL either back home or here in the UK.
My long term aim would be to work in the UK (my wife is British), so at first glance doing it here would seem to be the first choice, all other things being equal, however.....
The cost of training in Asia is a third of what it is here (comparing integrated vs integrated), and there also seems to be a growing market in low cost startups in the region which from an employment perspective post graduation seems rather more attractive than UK at the moment (at least on the surface).
That said, the Asian license (based on the old pre-JAR UK system) is obviously not compatible in the UK, so there is the issue of distance learning groundschool to complete the entire JAR syllabus whilst abroad.
Ok, this is probably doable, but my biggest reservation is whether I would be disadvantaged in any way when applying for jobs in the UK (having clocked up 4-5k commercial hrs in Asia hopefully) having done my license in Asia?
I know that its been mentioned on these boards that once you have the hours it does not really matter where you trained, but does this extend to licenses obtained abroad?
Oh, and I am already in my early 30's...
Any comments/suggestions/advice would be most appreciated, many thanks
My long term aim would be to work in the UK (my wife is British), so at first glance doing it here would seem to be the first choice, all other things being equal, however.....
The cost of training in Asia is a third of what it is here (comparing integrated vs integrated), and there also seems to be a growing market in low cost startups in the region which from an employment perspective post graduation seems rather more attractive than UK at the moment (at least on the surface).
That said, the Asian license (based on the old pre-JAR UK system) is obviously not compatible in the UK, so there is the issue of distance learning groundschool to complete the entire JAR syllabus whilst abroad.
Ok, this is probably doable, but my biggest reservation is whether I would be disadvantaged in any way when applying for jobs in the UK (having clocked up 4-5k commercial hrs in Asia hopefully) having done my license in Asia?
I know that its been mentioned on these boards that once you have the hours it does not really matter where you trained, but does this extend to licenses obtained abroad?
Oh, and I am already in my early 30's...
Any comments/suggestions/advice would be most appreciated, many thanks
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It shouldn't really matter. If you are appropriately certificated under the JAR regulations it doesn't really matter if your flying experience is from another part of the world since the flying is the same. Maybe you aren't up to date with JAR OPS if you have worked outside Europe but that should really not be a problem.
The only issue I see is that employers tend to prefer references from an employer that is in the region, not in the other part of the world. I guess that the same goes with all other occupations.
The only issue I see is that employers tend to prefer references from an employer that is in the region, not in the other part of the world. I guess that the same goes with all other occupations.
Why do it if it's not fun?
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From a legal point of view, you can't fly a G-registered aircraft commercially without either a UK or a JAR license.
If I understand you correctly (not quite sure I do, so correct me if I'm wrong) but the training you are looking at getting would not give you that? Therefore, you would have to convert your license to JAR before applying for jobs in the UK.
The more hours you have, the less arduous the conversion is, but the general opinion seems to be that it's easier to get the JAR license from the start. This isn't an area that I know much about, but there are plenty of people on these forums who have been there and done it.
Apologies if I've misunderstood you.
FFF
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If I understand you correctly (not quite sure I do, so correct me if I'm wrong) but the training you are looking at getting would not give you that? Therefore, you would have to convert your license to JAR before applying for jobs in the UK.
The more hours you have, the less arduous the conversion is, but the general opinion seems to be that it's easier to get the JAR license from the start. This isn't an area that I know much about, but there are plenty of people on these forums who have been there and done it.
Apologies if I've misunderstood you.
FFF
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many thanks for the replies Martin, FFF
Martin, re references, I agree that employers would rather get references from other airlines that they are familiar with but hopefully the airline/airlines I would hopefully be working for (a good dose of optimism here) will be well know enough to alleviate any concerns of experience gained with a sub-standard outfit.
FFF, you are right in that the training would not be JAR compatible so it would be a matter of distance learning (with a 2-3 week refresher course in the classroom) whilst flying to pass the 14 papers required.
Following on from FFF's post, is there anyone out there who has gone through a JAR conversion having obtained an ATPL elsewhere, especially via distance learning? How difficult was it compared to what your initial expectations were?
cheers
Martin, re references, I agree that employers would rather get references from other airlines that they are familiar with but hopefully the airline/airlines I would hopefully be working for (a good dose of optimism here) will be well know enough to alleviate any concerns of experience gained with a sub-standard outfit.
FFF, you are right in that the training would not be JAR compatible so it would be a matter of distance learning (with a 2-3 week refresher course in the classroom) whilst flying to pass the 14 papers required.
Following on from FFF's post, is there anyone out there who has gone through a JAR conversion having obtained an ATPL elsewhere, especially via distance learning? How difficult was it compared to what your initial expectations were?
cheers
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friend who just converted
A buddy of mine just completed the 14 exams, and was exempt from the distance learning because of his time. 500 hours on a type rated medium jet and heavier providing that you do the type rating on the jet. He studied only 1 day for each exam and has completed them all. Granted he was an instructor in Canada so a lot of the stuff was review and he is flying over in Europe at the moment so he had some experience under his belt. I am in the same situation and I am exempt from the distance learning because of my time. I plan on sitting my first 8 exams in March so I will let you know how it goes. If anyone tells you the exams are too tough just let those comments run off of you, its either because they dont have the experience or dont have the drive to study....
510
510
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Given that your experience is obtained on relevent aircraft types run by reputable airlines - who can be contacted for proof of experience - and your licence conversion goes smoothly, there is no reason why you should not be welcomed with reasonably open arms.
There may be some minor issues: if your experince is shorthaul, say within China, you will be at a serious disadvantage to those who have European shorthaul experience in a considerably busier environment. If, however, your experience is longhaulm you will be pretty much the same as any longhaul pilot worldwide, as we all go to much the same places!
Scroggs
There may be some minor issues: if your experince is shorthaul, say within China, you will be at a serious disadvantage to those who have European shorthaul experience in a considerably busier environment. If, however, your experience is longhaulm you will be pretty much the same as any longhaul pilot worldwide, as we all go to much the same places!
Scroggs
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good luck for the exams 510
Scroggs, in my ideal world I would of course have a lot of longhaul hours before trying to move back, but I think that chances are that my experience would be shorthaul.
Given that (I think anyway, please correct me if I am wrong) the traffic in SEAsia is not as busy as Europe, I would be as, per your post, at a disadvantage to guys who flew shorthaul in Europe.
But for the moment at least, it would seem that the opportunity of landing your first commercial job is better in SEAsia. My thinking then is that it's better to get your foot in the door and start building the hours rather than train here and face longer odds of getting the first job (my perception, who knows in 15 months things could be reversed!) even though the flying, once started, would be in busier airspace. So basically I'm looking at maximising my chances of my first job.
Any thoughts/comments? How much do you think this disadvantage (less busy airspace flying) would hinder my chances at your company in the future, for instance?
thanks and please keep the posts coming!
Scroggs, in my ideal world I would of course have a lot of longhaul hours before trying to move back, but I think that chances are that my experience would be shorthaul.
Given that (I think anyway, please correct me if I am wrong) the traffic in SEAsia is not as busy as Europe, I would be as, per your post, at a disadvantage to guys who flew shorthaul in Europe.
But for the moment at least, it would seem that the opportunity of landing your first commercial job is better in SEAsia. My thinking then is that it's better to get your foot in the door and start building the hours rather than train here and face longer odds of getting the first job (my perception, who knows in 15 months things could be reversed!) even though the flying, once started, would be in busier airspace. So basically I'm looking at maximising my chances of my first job.
Any thoughts/comments? How much do you think this disadvantage (less busy airspace flying) would hinder my chances at your company in the future, for instance?
thanks and please keep the posts coming!
