Flyer Training Show - What did you think?
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Flyer Training Show - What did you think?
For all of you out there who attended the Professional Flight Training Show at London Heathrow on Saturday (8th November 2003), what did you all think?
To ensure no misunderstandings - I work for BCFT who were exhibiting up there.
I am not looking for comments specifically about us, but am interested to hear what you all felt about the day, ie - the venue, exhibitors, seminars etc. It would also be interesting to know what your basis for attending was - full ab-initio course, licence conversion etc.
We enjoyed the day and look forward to your comments.
To ensure no misunderstandings - I work for BCFT who were exhibiting up there.
I am not looking for comments specifically about us, but am interested to hear what you all felt about the day, ie - the venue, exhibitors, seminars etc. It would also be interesting to know what your basis for attending was - full ab-initio course, licence conversion etc.
We enjoyed the day and look forward to your comments.
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You certainly had a good spot - and an eye catching 'multi' offer there too. Just wandering around and 'punter-watching' myself there did seem to be a lot of people coming in which I hope translated to 'new blood' and good leads.
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Hello,
I really enjoyed the show and it has definitely influenced how I am going to go about getting my fATPL licence. Aside form the presentations; I thought the exhibition was informative (though I nearly passed out from the heat at one point!) I did somehow manage to not blow the rest of my credit card limit at the pilot warehouse stand, though it was a close call!
After talking to a GAPAN chap, the thought of taking the aptitude tests isn't as scary to me now as it was before the show (I am a complete coward about tests) So I will be taking them at some point in the not too distant future (well, as long as I pass my medical)
If all goes well I'll also be giving BALPA membership some serious consideration, especially after the Britannia/Balpa presentation.
I couldn't hear most of the BA presentation as I was right by the (constantly opening and closing) door, slightly late as I had been talking to BCFT! But BA did seem to value the integrated route over the modular. Though to be honest I wannabe a freight dog so I was of the opinion that I hadn't missed too much.
To my utter shame I missed the DHL talk because being on the road since 5am on an empty tum, I was chomping my way through potato wedges (which incidentally took half an hour to arrive at the table otherwise I would have heard it!). Humblest apologies to the DHL speaker, in future I will abandon the spuds. If anyone out there made any DHL notes can I borrow them please?
Full marks to Atlantic Freights' Captain Newberry for looking like he just stepped off a Milan/London/New York/Paris catwalk and proceeding to tell us (with a straight face) that being a pilot is not a glamorous life.
The Astraeus talk was inspirational, good reminder that you have to keep trying, take some calculated risks and just hang on through the not-so-good times. Perspective.
Anyway, the result for me is that I have so far managed to whittle my preference of flight schools down to three and even if I score the lowest ever points on the aptitude tests the feeling I get when I just think about flying (tummy tickles, it's either aviation or the potato wedges!) means I won't be able to give it up.
SR
P.s.
Fogbound, I know you ain't fishing for compliments but
prowling around the exhibition with another wannabe, we both agreed that BCFT were the friendliest bunch there with very balanced views on training.
I really enjoyed the show and it has definitely influenced how I am going to go about getting my fATPL licence. Aside form the presentations; I thought the exhibition was informative (though I nearly passed out from the heat at one point!) I did somehow manage to not blow the rest of my credit card limit at the pilot warehouse stand, though it was a close call!
After talking to a GAPAN chap, the thought of taking the aptitude tests isn't as scary to me now as it was before the show (I am a complete coward about tests) So I will be taking them at some point in the not too distant future (well, as long as I pass my medical)
If all goes well I'll also be giving BALPA membership some serious consideration, especially after the Britannia/Balpa presentation.
I couldn't hear most of the BA presentation as I was right by the (constantly opening and closing) door, slightly late as I had been talking to BCFT! But BA did seem to value the integrated route over the modular. Though to be honest I wannabe a freight dog so I was of the opinion that I hadn't missed too much.
To my utter shame I missed the DHL talk because being on the road since 5am on an empty tum, I was chomping my way through potato wedges (which incidentally took half an hour to arrive at the table otherwise I would have heard it!). Humblest apologies to the DHL speaker, in future I will abandon the spuds. If anyone out there made any DHL notes can I borrow them please?
Full marks to Atlantic Freights' Captain Newberry for looking like he just stepped off a Milan/London/New York/Paris catwalk and proceeding to tell us (with a straight face) that being a pilot is not a glamorous life.
The Astraeus talk was inspirational, good reminder that you have to keep trying, take some calculated risks and just hang on through the not-so-good times. Perspective.
Anyway, the result for me is that I have so far managed to whittle my preference of flight schools down to three and even if I score the lowest ever points on the aptitude tests the feeling I get when I just think about flying (tummy tickles, it's either aviation or the potato wedges!) means I won't be able to give it up.
SR
P.s.
Fogbound, I know you ain't fishing for compliments but
prowling around the exhibition with another wannabe, we both agreed that BCFT were the friendliest bunch there with very balanced views on training.
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After the initial shock of my face turning red when a friends mobile started spurting out a christmas melody half way through BA's seminar (prompting everyone else to turn their mobiles off), we recovered and found the exhibition to be pretty good overall.
However, we found the seminar's, although good this time round, seemed to be in a different style to April's. The seminars in April's seemed to be geared towards people who were starting out on their flight training road whereas this time around was more geared towards individual airline requirements etc.
Before Saturday I had my mind made up about which ground school I was use (Bristol Ground School), but now since speaking to London Metropolitan University, I am torn between the two schools.
I like the sound of the three modules instead of two, the three weeks of classroom revision instead of four (easier for time off work, even though there will be a couple of extra days for exam sittings), etc... London Met's notes seemed pretty good and quite compact within their books, instead of folders that all other ground schools seemed to use.
Trying to make up my mind... still I have the pre-course information / brush up maths and physics revision notes being sent to me from London Metropolitan University.
We did miss the Astreus seminar so wouldn't mind someone writing a little bit on here?
We were hoping for someone to cancel so fogbound could carry out an impromptu seminar...
Best wishes,
Charlie Zulu.
However, we found the seminar's, although good this time round, seemed to be in a different style to April's. The seminars in April's seemed to be geared towards people who were starting out on their flight training road whereas this time around was more geared towards individual airline requirements etc.
Before Saturday I had my mind made up about which ground school I was use (Bristol Ground School), but now since speaking to London Metropolitan University, I am torn between the two schools.
I like the sound of the three modules instead of two, the three weeks of classroom revision instead of four (easier for time off work, even though there will be a couple of extra days for exam sittings), etc... London Met's notes seemed pretty good and quite compact within their books, instead of folders that all other ground schools seemed to use.
Trying to make up my mind... still I have the pre-course information / brush up maths and physics revision notes being sent to me from London Metropolitan University.
We did miss the Astreus seminar so wouldn't mind someone writing a little bit on here?
We were hoping for someone to cancel so fogbound could carry out an impromptu seminar...
Best wishes,
Charlie Zulu.
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CZ,
Astraeus, speaker John Mahon, this is what I can remember, sorry if it is a bit muddled:
He mentioned how he applied four times to Aer Lingus before getting a place on their sponsorship scheme based at Oxford. (The third time he applied to AL the HR lady asked him why he thought he hadn’t been successful so far and he commented on the fact that his father was not an AL captain!) . At the end of his training AL had no places for new pilots and everyone in his group was assigned to ground jobs, which he managed quite well as he had been working in that area whilst applying to AL but some of the rest of his group didn’t hack it and went off to fly for other companies. He thought it had been worth it though as it gave a good insight into other aspects of aviation and the running of an airline, and then when the time came he was flying. He pointed out that no matter how many times you apply for jobs etc you only need one to employ you. Anyway, after AL he moved to Cardiff. He also mentioned being flexible about where you are based with an airline and the fact that it can cause some hassle within your family.
He talked about all the start –up companies he had been involved in (quite a lot!) and the various flying and non-flying duties (introducing different aircraft into airlines, {he has a “can do” attitude to undertaking some tasks that perhaps others would think twice about}) he had within them. How he made contacts in various areas of aviation and was able to call on them at different times (networking!). He worked very hard. He intends to open an Irish, aviation themed pub in Aruba in the not too distant future (though I reckon he may well end up with a worldwide chain rather than one pub!)
He mentioned the ten second glance at a CV and what he looks for (am at work right now, my notes are at home and I can’t remember the entire list)
He also talked about flying with a chap named Bruce who is quite into music. (I may well be the last person on this planet to have realised who Bruce is, but I had visions of the E Street band doing ATC for Springsteen until it clicked (on Monday morning! Oh the shame!) Astraeus/Iron Maiden/Pprune Dec 1st. D’OH!)
TRon,
The DHL speaker was Chris Hall. Somebody somewhere must have made notes?!
SR
Astraeus, speaker John Mahon, this is what I can remember, sorry if it is a bit muddled:
He mentioned how he applied four times to Aer Lingus before getting a place on their sponsorship scheme based at Oxford. (The third time he applied to AL the HR lady asked him why he thought he hadn’t been successful so far and he commented on the fact that his father was not an AL captain!) . At the end of his training AL had no places for new pilots and everyone in his group was assigned to ground jobs, which he managed quite well as he had been working in that area whilst applying to AL but some of the rest of his group didn’t hack it and went off to fly for other companies. He thought it had been worth it though as it gave a good insight into other aspects of aviation and the running of an airline, and then when the time came he was flying. He pointed out that no matter how many times you apply for jobs etc you only need one to employ you. Anyway, after AL he moved to Cardiff. He also mentioned being flexible about where you are based with an airline and the fact that it can cause some hassle within your family.
He talked about all the start –up companies he had been involved in (quite a lot!) and the various flying and non-flying duties (introducing different aircraft into airlines, {he has a “can do” attitude to undertaking some tasks that perhaps others would think twice about}) he had within them. How he made contacts in various areas of aviation and was able to call on them at different times (networking!). He worked very hard. He intends to open an Irish, aviation themed pub in Aruba in the not too distant future (though I reckon he may well end up with a worldwide chain rather than one pub!)
He mentioned the ten second glance at a CV and what he looks for (am at work right now, my notes are at home and I can’t remember the entire list)
He also talked about flying with a chap named Bruce who is quite into music. (I may well be the last person on this planet to have realised who Bruce is, but I had visions of the E Street band doing ATC for Springsteen until it clicked (on Monday morning! Oh the shame!) Astraeus/Iron Maiden/Pprune Dec 1st. D’OH!)
TRon,
The DHL speaker was Chris Hall. Somebody somewhere must have made notes?!
SR
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Scenic Route,
Glad you found it interesting. I found it difficult to know where to pitch the presentation, learning as I did very late what the topic was.
I am a bit humbled at your recollection, you were obviously taking notes.
The fundamental point I was getting to was that with a LOT of perseverence you can go a long way in this industry. Along the way you have to take some measured risks.
But never, never forget the reason you started...namely the sheer love of flying.
H
Glad you found it interesting. I found it difficult to know where to pitch the presentation, learning as I did very late what the topic was.
I am a bit humbled at your recollection, you were obviously taking notes.
The fundamental point I was getting to was that with a LOT of perseverence you can go a long way in this industry. Along the way you have to take some measured risks.
But never, never forget the reason you started...namely the sheer love of flying.
H
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I'd already done my homework on looking for a distance learning groundschool, so the exhibition was very useful for talking to the final two, and choosing from there. As it turned out I found a realistic third in the shape of BCFT, and the chat I had with three of its staff was very helpful. I then got talking with the other two, Oxford Aviation Training and Bristol Groundschool, and both gave me very no-nonsense, upfront and open advice.
Having the CAA guys there was also very useful. I managed to get a key question answered on the spot, so the trip was made worthwhile by that alone.
Not much in the seminars for us rotorheads, though.
Dan
Having the CAA guys there was also very useful. I managed to get a key question answered on the spot, so the trip was made worthwhile by that alone.
Not much in the seminars for us rotorheads, though.
Dan
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notes on seminars
Hi folks,
I took some notes during all seminars (especially BA and DHL).
It was Chris Hall (CP) who gave the DHL presentation.
I will be putting my notes into PDF format some time soon so if someone wants them you are more than welcome to PM me and I'll mail a copy. They're not 100% accurate but there's a good insight into BA's requirements and DHL's view on recruiting low houred "cadets".
I have no training whatsoever under my belt so I found the whole lot of seminars/exhibitors stands quite useful (esp GAPAN and BALPA stands).
C
I took some notes during all seminars (especially BA and DHL).
It was Chris Hall (CP) who gave the DHL presentation.
I will be putting my notes into PDF format some time soon so if someone wants them you are more than welcome to PM me and I'll mail a copy. They're not 100% accurate but there's a good insight into BA's requirements and DHL's view on recruiting low houred "cadets".
I have no training whatsoever under my belt so I found the whole lot of seminars/exhibitors stands quite useful (esp GAPAN and BALPA stands).
C
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BA talk at Flight Training Show..
Wrote the following on the other Flight Training show thread - might be useful;
The BA talk from John Monks was along the usual lines;
What they look for - teamwork, captains for the future etc.
Min requirements;
For entry as TEP (the cadet sponsorship not currently running) - 2 A-Levels/5 GCSEs.
Self-sponsored (SSP) - Frozen ATPL from an approved INTEGRATED course. The school has to actually recommend you.
Direct Entry (DEP) - ATPL (1500hrs min) with line experience (doesn't matter where you trained)
Obviously this can change according to their needs but it doesn't look to good for wannabes keen on BA. The message seems to be go and work for EJ/Ryanair etc. then come and see us when you've got jet time.
I'm still a bit unsure why they continue to promote the 'Integrated route' only.
I thought the modular/integrated training didn't matter as long as you had a licence. The talk form Alan (?) Cooper of Britannia & BALPA didn't seem to support this view either. He said s/th along the lines of "If you can get daddy to pay for your training then go to Oxford and do integrated.."
Has anyone else got any thoughts on this?
Cheers!
Digga
The BA talk from John Monks was along the usual lines;
What they look for - teamwork, captains for the future etc.
Min requirements;
For entry as TEP (the cadet sponsorship not currently running) - 2 A-Levels/5 GCSEs.
Self-sponsored (SSP) - Frozen ATPL from an approved INTEGRATED course. The school has to actually recommend you.
Direct Entry (DEP) - ATPL (1500hrs min) with line experience (doesn't matter where you trained)
Obviously this can change according to their needs but it doesn't look to good for wannabes keen on BA. The message seems to be go and work for EJ/Ryanair etc. then come and see us when you've got jet time.
I'm still a bit unsure why they continue to promote the 'Integrated route' only.
I thought the modular/integrated training didn't matter as long as you had a licence. The talk form Alan (?) Cooper of Britannia & BALPA didn't seem to support this view either. He said s/th along the lines of "If you can get daddy to pay for your training then go to Oxford and do integrated.."
Has anyone else got any thoughts on this?
Cheers!
Digga
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notes
Folks,
the notes are almost done I'll have them into PDF format very soon.
To all those who PMd me:
thanks for your interest in my notes, they'll be in your mailboxes soon.
C
the notes are almost done I'll have them into PDF format very soon.
To all those who PMd me:
thanks for your interest in my notes, they'll be in your mailboxes soon.
C
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I was really impressed by the whole show and found it to be a very intersting and insightful day.
I managed to attend all the lectures,a long day in all. Luckily they decided to lower the temperature in the lecture hall to what felt like sub-zero for Capt John Mahon's talk,which meant all were fully awake!
I didn't manage to hear all of John Monks talk as I was one of those right at the door and spent most of my time letting people in and trying to stop the door banging.What he said has mostly been covered. The main theme was "Intergrated training". It was interesting however.
Chris Hall and the Dhl Cargo talk was a great insight into the world of cargo flying. Unfortunaly his video about DHL and their operations wasn't working. He talked about how they take on low hours pilots,often from within the company but also outside.He also mentioned the advantages of not having a plane full of passengers to annoy you but you do have to make your own tea.
The Britannia talk by Capt. Alan Cooper told his story as a self sponsored pilot making his way up through the system. It was very amusing in parts and portrayed Britannia as an excellent company to work for. Their recruitment plan for the future looks quite positive with a number of pilots needed to fill up the holding pool and also the possibility of another cadetship quite soon.
Catain Jim Newberry's talk on Atlantic Airlines was another insightful look into the world of cargo flying. He dispelled a number of myths about the industry, such as needing a separate licence to fly cargo, that its poor pay (he mentioned a FO earning in the region of £30-35K starting) and that they only fly rust buckets. They will be looking for up to 30 pilots and are running a sponsorship scheme at the moment also.
I really enjoyed Capt John Mahon's talk. Scenic Route covered the bulk of what he said above. His talk showed that you can get a lucky break and that you never know where your next job might come from.
In all honesty if I could, I would choose to have Capt Mahons career anyday rather than that of someone who joins a major airline straight out of flying school and then retires with the same company 35 years later.
As a wannebe to which integrated traing is nowhere near in my reach and most likely never will be, the last four talks showed there is always a chance as long as you have the desire and the passion to fly.
Overall it made a nice change from the often crap filled and depressing posts which people often fill these boards with.
Aerfungus
I managed to attend all the lectures,a long day in all. Luckily they decided to lower the temperature in the lecture hall to what felt like sub-zero for Capt John Mahon's talk,which meant all were fully awake!
I didn't manage to hear all of John Monks talk as I was one of those right at the door and spent most of my time letting people in and trying to stop the door banging.What he said has mostly been covered. The main theme was "Intergrated training". It was interesting however.
Chris Hall and the Dhl Cargo talk was a great insight into the world of cargo flying. Unfortunaly his video about DHL and their operations wasn't working. He talked about how they take on low hours pilots,often from within the company but also outside.He also mentioned the advantages of not having a plane full of passengers to annoy you but you do have to make your own tea.
The Britannia talk by Capt. Alan Cooper told his story as a self sponsored pilot making his way up through the system. It was very amusing in parts and portrayed Britannia as an excellent company to work for. Their recruitment plan for the future looks quite positive with a number of pilots needed to fill up the holding pool and also the possibility of another cadetship quite soon.
Catain Jim Newberry's talk on Atlantic Airlines was another insightful look into the world of cargo flying. He dispelled a number of myths about the industry, such as needing a separate licence to fly cargo, that its poor pay (he mentioned a FO earning in the region of £30-35K starting) and that they only fly rust buckets. They will be looking for up to 30 pilots and are running a sponsorship scheme at the moment also.
I really enjoyed Capt John Mahon's talk. Scenic Route covered the bulk of what he said above. His talk showed that you can get a lucky break and that you never know where your next job might come from.
In all honesty if I could, I would choose to have Capt Mahons career anyday rather than that of someone who joins a major airline straight out of flying school and then retires with the same company 35 years later.
As a wannebe to which integrated traing is nowhere near in my reach and most likely never will be, the last four talks showed there is always a chance as long as you have the desire and the passion to fly.
Overall it made a nice change from the often crap filled and depressing posts which people often fill these boards with.
Aerfungus
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notes again
Hi all,
those who requested my notes should have a copy of them by now in their email inbox.
Some people requested notes as well but did not give an email. I am not quite sure I can PM pdf files (or any files for that matter..).
If so, if these people are still interested I would very happily email them with the file.
Thanks all the wannabes for your interest in my notes. Hope they're of some use.
C
those who requested my notes should have a copy of them by now in their email inbox.
Some people requested notes as well but did not give an email. I am not quite sure I can PM pdf files (or any files for that matter..).
If so, if these people are still interested I would very happily email them with the file.
Thanks all the wannabes for your interest in my notes. Hope they're of some use.
C
