Wannabes Borrowing Money for training......................
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Wannabes Borrowing Money for training......................
Hello,
Dont want to waffle on about HSBC bank loans again (as I know its already been covered several times!!!), but Im talking about banks in General. Those of you who have loaned over 20K for a Frozen JAA Atpl Licence or most of your training and went into the bank with a glossy business plan etc but no security, what did you tell your bank manager when they asked surely the most important question any banks ask when lending loans such as this:
"So if we lend you the required amount for your training but at the end of it (and perhaps for a long perod after!) you cannot find employment at an airline, how are going to pay back the bank??"
I mean ive heard stories of a lot of you going for these loans, some well over 20K unsecured too! plenty of talk about going in dressed in a suit etc, and walking out smiling ear to ear with a granted loan seemingly quite easily achieved!
It does seem strange to me that this can be the case, as its extremely risky for the bank to do so. Especially with the state of the Jobs/ recruitment market in general at current (and even worse for new gradutes etc). Did any of you mention to the bank in your plans the number of new graduates each year, the number of unemployed pilots, and the number being recruited each year?
Normally banks dont lend mone to people (whether business or anything else etc) unless they know they are gonna get paid back in the worst case scenario (which is why they'll take your house if you dont keep up payments on secured loans !)
How long did you guys get to pay back the loan afterwards? and if you were trying to get employed at an airline and had to get a Flying instructor rating, how will this effect your ability to pay off a loan? (with being on lower wages as a flying instructor etc)
Im Just wondering about business plans etc as Im Looking possibly at paying for PPL and hourbuilding myself, then going to the bank for the rest for a CPL + IR + MCC course etc.
Forgot to mention...the main point Im making here is, in terms of risk for the bank, If the Loan is called a "professional studies" loan for career development, then surely from the banks point of view, the ariline business is the 'riskiest' career of them all! I mean if you wanted to borrow 10K to study for a Job in I.T (if it ever cost that much) there is a massive demand for IT trained people. one jobsite on the web advertises over 20,000 vacancies. but how many pilot jobs ever get publicised or become vacant? Id guess less than 20 at any one time (for major airlines etc) and thats being optimistic.
Does this not effect the way the bank sees you, as a potential debtor to them!?
bonjourno
Dont want to waffle on about HSBC bank loans again (as I know its already been covered several times!!!), but Im talking about banks in General. Those of you who have loaned over 20K for a Frozen JAA Atpl Licence or most of your training and went into the bank with a glossy business plan etc but no security, what did you tell your bank manager when they asked surely the most important question any banks ask when lending loans such as this:
"So if we lend you the required amount for your training but at the end of it (and perhaps for a long perod after!) you cannot find employment at an airline, how are going to pay back the bank??"
I mean ive heard stories of a lot of you going for these loans, some well over 20K unsecured too! plenty of talk about going in dressed in a suit etc, and walking out smiling ear to ear with a granted loan seemingly quite easily achieved!
It does seem strange to me that this can be the case, as its extremely risky for the bank to do so. Especially with the state of the Jobs/ recruitment market in general at current (and even worse for new gradutes etc). Did any of you mention to the bank in your plans the number of new graduates each year, the number of unemployed pilots, and the number being recruited each year?
Normally banks dont lend mone to people (whether business or anything else etc) unless they know they are gonna get paid back in the worst case scenario (which is why they'll take your house if you dont keep up payments on secured loans !)
How long did you guys get to pay back the loan afterwards? and if you were trying to get employed at an airline and had to get a Flying instructor rating, how will this effect your ability to pay off a loan? (with being on lower wages as a flying instructor etc)
Im Just wondering about business plans etc as Im Looking possibly at paying for PPL and hourbuilding myself, then going to the bank for the rest for a CPL + IR + MCC course etc.
Forgot to mention...the main point Im making here is, in terms of risk for the bank, If the Loan is called a "professional studies" loan for career development, then surely from the banks point of view, the ariline business is the 'riskiest' career of them all! I mean if you wanted to borrow 10K to study for a Job in I.T (if it ever cost that much) there is a massive demand for IT trained people. one jobsite on the web advertises over 20,000 vacancies. but how many pilot jobs ever get publicised or become vacant? Id guess less than 20 at any one time (for major airlines etc) and thats being optimistic.
Does this not effect the way the bank sees you, as a potential debtor to them!?
bonjourno
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Hustler - well I didn't borrow quite as much as £20K but I had a guarnteed job with the MoD after graduation and so they knew that I'd be able to keep up with repayments.
Reagarding your last question, I don't think they realise the difficulty in getting employment compared to some other professions. However, as long as you demonstrate you can keep up with repayments one way or another, then they probably don't care.
No. 2
Reagarding your last question, I don't think they realise the difficulty in getting employment compared to some other professions. However, as long as you demonstrate you can keep up with repayments one way or another, then they probably don't care.
No. 2
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I agree with No2, as long as you can demonstrate some way of repaying the amount borrowed they will be more understanding.
But if you go in there without a clue or an alternate plan you would have too be lucky to get anything!
I will be borrowing 20k+ & im not worried about what the bank will think as I have a good (I think) back-up plan, I am more worried about what the girlfriend will think!!
But if you go in there without a clue or an alternate plan you would have too be lucky to get anything!
I will be borrowing 20k+ & im not worried about what the bank will think as I have a good (I think) back-up plan, I am more worried about what the girlfriend will think!!
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Diamonds and holidays if she is anything like my girlfriend! 
Hi Hustler,
Similar situation to yourself – I know that I want to fly but in order to learn it’s either the sponsorship route, which I’m not relying on or fund myself route, which requires lots of cash that I don’t have! So looks like to do it I need to get a loan, however the only good thing going for me a the mo is the fact I’ve been to uni and got a good degree (like lots of people out there!) because I can’t seem to find the graduate job/career that will provide the all important back up plan. Since uni I have been working for Natwest (keeps me afloat and the student loans company off my back) and whilst been there I have seen people borrow silly amount of money to start up their own businesses, which if you think about it carry the same amount of financial risk as getting work as a pilot. But they all had things in common
·They came in smart. (Shows you mean business and your serious!) – remember your selling your self and in the sales industry first impressions count!!!!
·They knew all the fine details of what they were going to do and how they would achieve it. (i.e. you could put across to them what qualities are needed to pass ground school and how you’ve demonstrated this to date (just an idea?)
·THIS IS THE BIGGY have had a fall back plan of how they were going to pay the money back, some used equity such as their house but for unsecured others have show their fall back plan of an other successful job.
What’s important to realise is that banks are in competition not just with each other but also internally - they want your business, so be shrewd. I’ve seen people ask for loans above 20k and they have been told it needs to be secured but with negotiation they’ve got it!
Good luck to all trying
TTFN
OLLY
Hi Hustler,
Similar situation to yourself – I know that I want to fly but in order to learn it’s either the sponsorship route, which I’m not relying on or fund myself route, which requires lots of cash that I don’t have! So looks like to do it I need to get a loan, however the only good thing going for me a the mo is the fact I’ve been to uni and got a good degree (like lots of people out there!) because I can’t seem to find the graduate job/career that will provide the all important back up plan. Since uni I have been working for Natwest (keeps me afloat and the student loans company off my back) and whilst been there I have seen people borrow silly amount of money to start up their own businesses, which if you think about it carry the same amount of financial risk as getting work as a pilot. But they all had things in common
·They came in smart. (Shows you mean business and your serious!) – remember your selling your self and in the sales industry first impressions count!!!!
·They knew all the fine details of what they were going to do and how they would achieve it. (i.e. you could put across to them what qualities are needed to pass ground school and how you’ve demonstrated this to date (just an idea?)
·THIS IS THE BIGGY have had a fall back plan of how they were going to pay the money back, some used equity such as their house but for unsecured others have show their fall back plan of an other successful job.
What’s important to realise is that banks are in competition not just with each other but also internally - they want your business, so be shrewd. I’ve seen people ask for loans above 20k and they have been told it needs to be secured but with negotiation they’ve got it!
Good luck to all trying
TTFN
OLLY
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To be or not to be, that is the question
With the numbers aspiring to fly at the moment, it is a bit like investing in a high risk share. Can you afford to lose the money invested?
Yes - continue : No - think very carefully about proceeding since there is no guarantee of employment.
That's the cautious answer.
The other side of the coin - outfits like Easy/Emirates are acquiring significant numbers of aircraft for their expansion plans.
If all goes according to plan, the Supply v Demand will tip in the favour of junior birdmen. If you feel lucky - go for it.
As ever, a personnal choice. Decide.
Late entry:
Yeboin
The term "junior birdmen" was a phase used by Sandy Thompson when I attended one of his ATPL short courses many moons ago in Booker. He had many cracking phases which had the course in fits of laughter.
Yes - continue : No - think very carefully about proceeding since there is no guarantee of employment.
That's the cautious answer.
The other side of the coin - outfits like Easy/Emirates are acquiring significant numbers of aircraft for their expansion plans.
If all goes according to plan, the Supply v Demand will tip in the favour of junior birdmen. If you feel lucky - go for it.
As ever, a personnal choice. Decide.
Late entry:
Yeboin
The term "junior birdmen" was a phase used by Sandy Thompson when I attended one of his ATPL short courses many moons ago in Booker. He had many cracking phases which had the course in fits of laughter.
Last edited by ecj; 5th Oct 2003 at 15:36.
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'Junior birdmen' - I like that ecj, much better than being referred to as 'low hours guys'. Stand up and take a bow.
The Hustler, I'm thinking along your lines, I'm self funding PPL and hour building and I'm going to go into (hopefully) a full time-ish job that allows a career break after two years of service. So i'm hoping the bank will take the view that if i crash and burn i can at least go back to a job that will allow me to pay back the loan. We'll see.
Anyway, good luck.
The Hustler, I'm thinking along your lines, I'm self funding PPL and hour building and I'm going to go into (hopefully) a full time-ish job that allows a career break after two years of service. So i'm hoping the bank will take the view that if i crash and burn i can at least go back to a job that will allow me to pay back the loan. We'll see.
Anyway, good luck.
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As already suggested, if you can show them a Plan B (in most people's case, their current profession) then I shouldn't think they'd care to much. All they want is your money and plenty of interest, the greedy, usurious, money-sucking bastards.
Sorry, I'll go and lie down now.
Sorry, I'll go and lie down now.
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They were quite happy to give me 20 grand straight out of a-levels and no back up career. I just gave them all the green shoots and retirement bulges stuff presented nicely and they had no problem with that.
I think the minimum re payments on 20 grand are about £250 over 11 years - so as ong as i'm living at home with a half reasonable job (just doing instructors rating now) and not doing a lot else - i should be able to give them there money back!
From their point of view - so long as you make the re payments - they should get about 8 grand in interest and you then have a current account with them which you would have to use for a long time!
I think the minimum re payments on 20 grand are about £250 over 11 years - so as ong as i'm living at home with a half reasonable job (just doing instructors rating now) and not doing a lot else - i should be able to give them there money back!
From their point of view - so long as you make the re payments - they should get about 8 grand in interest and you then have a current account with them which you would have to use for a long time!
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no probs loan
HSBC see pilots in the same grade as a medical student and are prepared to lend up to 75K... Yes you need to pay back at some point.
I can only tell you of my situation to give an idea, I found a job with the Government as the Government employers are prepared to allow staff ( in fact its a staff right ) to take a sabatical. This ment I worked for the H.M.Prison Service for a while then took my right to an unpaid career break of upto 5 years (lucky me) during this time i could do alterative studies i.e ATPL.
With a garenteed job to go back to the bank said how much!! 2.5 years later they are getting worried I borrowed 60k including living expences.
yes its worth it, use the Government
I can only tell you of my situation to give an idea, I found a job with the Government as the Government employers are prepared to allow staff ( in fact its a staff right ) to take a sabatical. This ment I worked for the H.M.Prison Service for a while then took my right to an unpaid career break of upto 5 years (lucky me) during this time i could do alterative studies i.e ATPL.
With a garenteed job to go back to the bank said how much!! 2.5 years later they are getting worried I borrowed 60k including living expences.
yes its worth it, use the Government
