LAPL
 

Hi guys,

Im new here... So if i have missed a thread with this forgive me.

Does anyone know what the current situation is with the new LAPL licence?? What are the limitations, amount of flight training etc. Any help would be greatly appriciated!

Cheers

Its all on the EASA website if you care to look:

Part FCL

AMC-FCL

That is only for new licenses. If you convert from another license, probably other rules apply and you'll be credited towards this minimum PIC time by the current experience you have.

Whats the process now for actually training towards a LAPL? Are there exams for it and have approvals actually been issued?

Logic might dictate that but legislation does not. If you convert a NPPL to a LAPL it is a new licence.
No and No. Can you really see anyone investing £1000 to be the first?

Conversion of existing licences is defined in CAP 804. Because the NPPL requires more solo flying before being issued than does the LAPL, only those pilots who haven't completed 6 hrs PIC since NPPL issue will need to do so before being able to carry passengers as LAPL holders - even though they could do so as NPPL holders.....:\

No ATO approval is needed to convert a licence to a LAPL, but approval is needed to instruct for initial issue of a LAPL. Thus to teach 67% of a 'proper' PPL course (i.e. the LAPL), a training organisation which has been training pilots for perhaps 50 years will need to pay the ludicrous 'approval fee' to become an ATO, but to carry on teaching a PPL course there is no need to become an ATO until 2015......

The logic of which is only apparent to a blinkered €urocrat...:rolleyes:

As has been said many times, EASA is a totally unnecessary organisation, hell-bent on fixing things which simply aren't broken. More and more it is demonstrating that it is manifestly unfit for purpose.

Whopity, have you tried printing out the ridiculous new 'Certificate of Revalidation' panel of the 16-panel 2-sided A4-to-A7 origami which EASA calls a licence? The space for the Examiner's certificate number and signature are each 11 x 8 mm in size. Interestingly, the Examiner doesn't need to include his/her name.....

The CAA allege that pilots won't be allowed to cut up this ridiculous document to fit the normal A6 licence holder - although at the last EASA FCL_PG meeting, I was told that this wasn't true - it's something that the CAA seems to have invented by itself.

No, I have better things to do, but at first glance I found 4 fundamental errors in the example licence!

I don't think you can get a LAPL medical yet?

Yes and No. The theoretical knowledge examinations are the same as for the PPL and the UK will not issue an approval for the LAPL until 17 Sep at the earliest.

No, not quite. You will have to wait until Sept 17 . I spoke to my AME today to book one, but he doesn't yet know exactly what it involves so wouldn't give me an appointment until early October so he has a chance to get up to speed with it. Forget the GP route- there is absolutely no incentive for them to register to do something they don't understand and are not interested in.

Sadly true. Probably the most problems we've had to resolve for NPPL applicants have been those which have arisen due to the intransigent nature of some GPs....

At least the LAPL Medical Certificate will be available from AMEs!

See CAP804 Section 4 Part P Page 11-12. (.pdf pp 435 & 436 / 794).

You can download CAP804 at http://www.caa.co.uk/docs/33/CAP804rfs.pdf . An updated version will be released shortly.

EASA cannot include this in their document as it is a UK national conversion report - other countries, oops, 'member states' will probably have similar conversion reports once they get round to thinking about them....

Incidentally, this is the new 'Certificate of Experience' page:


The blue outline on the right is the size of a credit card, so you can see how it will be virtually impossible for an Examiner to fill in his/her certificate no. and signature in those wretched little 11mm x 8 mm boxes.....:(

We've been there before, the old credit card licence. I note there is nowhere to enter the validity of the English Language proficiency for those who might not be Level 6!

Page 3 Section XIII, surely?

That's the initial validity, if it has to be revalidated as in Level 4 or 5 the only way is to have it reissued.

Quite correct, Whopity - I understand that the CAA is well aware of the extra administrative burden imposed by the utter lunacy of EASA part-FCL....:mad:

And then what happens to all the rating signatures in micro miniature writing that will disappear when they reissue it? Up to know, they have not been able to cope with existing Cs of R and you have to keep the old "separate" revalidation certificate!

That, I guess, is yet another aspect which hasn't been properly considered!

You really couldn't have made it up......:mad:

Hardly surprising I gave up instructing and examining with all this utterly shambolic €urobolleaux about to make its thoroughly unwelcome apperance on the scene....:\

Sadly, I think a lot of others will follow suit.

Jesus, it's like watching grumpy old men.....

Filling in rating sheet?

Think "out the box" and write out the box!

Thinking outside the box....... We're all being softened up with this apalling paperwork and will happily accept our chip being injected to hold all our records. Just need a scanner, job done :ok:

Seriously though, have they clearly defined the steps needed to go from NPPL to this new fangled euro licence?

Also, I'd assume that the restriction on carrying passengers for the first xyz hours doesn't apply to taking along a suitably qualified pilot?

If you mean the conversion process from NPPL(A) with SSEA Class Rating to LAPL(A) with Single Engine Piston aeroplane endorsement, the answer is yes.

See CAP 804 Section 4 Part P Page 11-12.

BEagle, you appear to be a staunch critic of EASA? Maybe it's worth considering sitting with all the guys up there to work out something positive together going forward? Or get yourself promoted to head of FCL?

It could be much more productive than sitting here with an axe to grind! :)

What a naive view you have. Do you really believe anyone in FCL actually sat there and worked all this out? EASA received over 8000 comments from informed members of Industry and the CAA and ignored most of them.

This pre-supposes that one would see 'Head of FCL' as a promotion, even if such a position existed.

As I understand from enquiries made and answers received.....

Holders of the NPPL SSEA will migrate to LAPL sometime before 2015 but the medical requirements will be more rigid than at present and require sign off by an AME.

Does anyone yet know the full medical requirements? If the medical is to be more onerous what will happen to those Pilots who got back into flying after failing the JAR medical and going NPPL and getting a GP medical? Will they be out of flying again?

I have a current CAA (M) and a lapsed NPPL SSEA and have been toying with the idea of revalidating the NPPL but before doing so really need to understand the implications of the propsed changes to the medical.

Only another 11 days and hopefully all will be revealed

See: http://easa.europa.eu/agency-measure...bin%20crew.pdf


soaringhigh650, what the heck do you think I've been doing for the past few years?

So quite different to the NPPL SSEA medical then and I can't see a GP agreeing to do it so cost implications as well :eek:

I understand that an NPPL SSEA will have to migrate to LAPL. Seems there could be a few casualties!

Or migrate to LAA land.

Migrate to LAA land? Are you sure? See my questions below to someone who should know - their answers in bold itallics:

I simply want to fly low performance, lightweight aircraft in daytime VFR conditions with the minimum of fuss. I am happy with the NPPL medical and really feel that the NPPL is adequate for my needs. I am currently in a group flying a Eurostar microlight and would like to buy an LAA aircraft “Streak Shadow” which requires an SSEA licence.

Can you give me the definitive answer to these questions please:

1) Will the NPPL (SSEA) evolve into an LAPL with higher medical requirements?
2) Will the NPPL (SSEA) stay as it is but require higher medical requirements?

1.The NPPL (SSEA) will evolve into the LAPL- however the medical requirement have not yet been fixed by Brussles (!)
2. The NPPL will become the LAPL and you will exchange it before 2015 sometime.

Your informant is sadly misinformed and both of the answers given are incorrect. The NPPL will continue in its present form and will exist alongside the LAPL. From 8 April 2015 the NPPL will be valid only on UK registered, non-EASA aircraft while the LAPL will be valid on both EASA and non-EASA aircraft.

The medical requirements for the LAPL have been fixed and in the public domain since 5 April 2012.

Very worrying. When I say he should know, I really mean that he SHOULD know given his position and where he appears and the capacity as an official person of reference.
I would certainly have put his advice well above anything I could have found on an internet forum especially as it came back this week from a formal enquiry that I made.
I would feel absurd questioning him!
Dunno what to do now

Most times I look at Prune for concise,accurate infomation I become confused and annoyed with innacurate and sarcastic replies ,which is why I don't post much on here nowadays.
So much so that I forgot my password and needed a new one.

My understanding is that those of us flying on a NPPL,which for me, on an ex military aircraft, will be to carry on just as before, with the same medical self declaration.
I understand that this also applies to certain other type aircraft.

Tony,

See question 16 here:

http://www.caa.co.uk/docs/2330/h-FAQs%20May%202012.pdf

You will be able to fly the Streak Shadow on an NPPL SSEA, but in the UK only.

If your Streak Shadow is the Microlight version, it may not be flown on an NPPL(SSEA). Similarly, if your Streak Shadow is the SSEA version, it may not be flown on a NPPL(Microlight).

This is because there is no such thing as a NPPL 'Streak Shadow Type Rating'! The Class Ratings included in an NPPL cover all aircraft in that class - an aircraft which meets the Microlight definition needs a Microlight Class Rating and a Single Engine Piston (Land) aeroplane which meets the SSEA definition needs an SSEA Class Rating.

Quite correct. The only changes which are of note are:

1. With effect from 17 Sep 2012, if a pilot so chooses, he may use the LAPL Medical Certificate with an NPPL.

2. With effect from 8 Apr 2015, the NPPL may not be used to fly EASA aircraft.

3. Any NPPL issued before 8 Apr 2015 may be converted to a LAPL at any time (including after 8 Apr 2015).

4. Any NPPL issued after 8 Apr 2015 may not be converted to a LAPL.

Actually I have a current CAA (M) licence which I use to fly a group Eurostar microlight. I also have a lapsed NPPL (SSEA) which I have considered revalidating as I would like to buy a Star Streak or Streak Shadow. I will be happy to revalidate if the single existing medical will be retained and I won't be forced to have two medicals.
Of course I could just buy a microlight version of the Shadow but I felt that the NPPL SSEA would open up more opportunities.

There is no intention to change current NPPL medical requirements.