Engine Checks
 

A thread to continue the discussion from the forced landing thread, about "cause of failure checks" for a partially failed engine in flight and about the use of a typical engine restart check list.

A restart check list to me is for the purpose of restarting a stopped engine and that is it, however it does raise the question about what you would do if there is an engine problem where the engine continues to operate, and there is some crossover between that and an in-flight restart.

Big Pistons Forever wrote:
There isn't a check list for that, so most of us I think would look at the available instruments and listen to the engine sound to try and work out where the problem was. Would anybody at this point start fiddling with controls or maybe selecting a field or nearby airfield for a precautionary landing and communicating that accordingly?

Since Big Pistons Forever mentioned in the forced landing thread that he teaches a "cause check" for engine problems, I'd like to invite him to detail that here as it would quite likely be useful to many of us.

Perhaps a simple check list for a rough running engine along the lines of:

• Mags on both
• Fuel pump on
• Fuel quantity (change tank)
• Carb heat hot or select alternate air
• Oil pressure / Oil temperature check, if low pressure / hot then shut down.
• Vibration - if high shut down (before you cant see instruments
• Visible oil - if its obscurring the wind screen shut down before you cant see
• Fire - shut down, enter engine fire drills.

ABOVE ALL - concentrate on flying the aircraft rather than diagnosing the problem, don't be distracted from flying the aircraft

The restart checklist for the machine I have handy is split into two;
Starter motor restart
Airspeed 70kn
Fuel tap open
Fuel pump on
Throttle setting ½
Mags “both”
Starter on

Or for Dire restart
Airspeed >135kn
Fuel tap open
Fuel pump On
Throttle setting ½
Mags “both”

If I have an engine issue at altitude I scan left to right checking all controls and gauges that have an impact on the engine. I then take appropriate action.

Rod1

A venerable Ancient once imparted to me that 'Balls to the wall, crossfeed on, boost pumps on' will get you out of the majority of messes when low and/or without much time to fire up the old brain.

I can never imagine I'd have enough mental energy to even try and diagnose an engine that suddenly gave up on me. Flying the aircraft under unusual conditions, even if they were amply trained and retrained for, AND finding a suitable field AND landing there with minimal damage will be more than enough to keep me occupied. Let alone reassuring a possible passenger.

If ever it happens to me, I intend to not even try to restart, unless everything else looks perfectly bright. Or perhaps if a fellow pilot were in the other seat.

Off hand, I think few if any non-fuel-related issues will allow an engine to be restarted.

One obscure one is of you get a single duff magneto but which is still firing, at the wrong point. This will cause a potentially extremely rough running engine, so switching to the L or R mag is worth a try.

Otherwise, assume it is fuel, so... check fuel cock is on one tank or the other, electric fuel pump on, carb heat out (on a carb engine), alternate air out (on a FI engine).

Switching tanks can be tricky, because there will be a delay before the engine restarts, which has caused some people to switch back to the original (empty) tank, after which the bit of fuel from the non-empty tank comes through, "confirming" your belief that you are on the right tank now :E

If the engine is running incredibly roughly and vibrating like crazy, rather than slavishly checking mags on 'both' consider turning one off at a time. If the timing has slipped on one it will run very rough if both are on. Identify the duff one and it'll run perfectly well on the good one.

Fuel pump on, and assuring fuel flow should be done after assuring that there is no fire.

If it's on fire, you don't want to be putting more fuel to it, you should be closing firewall cutoffs before anything else, and just looking for a place to force land.

this poor beginner will shut it down before it shakes itself apart from the airframe - a certain way to disaster.

It would take - oohhh - about a second to knock one mag off. If your problem is that the timing on one has slipped the engine will suddenly run as smoothly as ever and you can get on with your day.
Or you can panic, shut the engine down and then look for somewhere to force-land.

Also remember if there is carb ice making rough running when you put the carb heat on it may get a bit worse before it gets better as the ice clears through...

I would be wary of shutting down the engine until landing is assured- UNLESS the engine was trying to rip itself out of the airframe OR fire. or another good reason.

I'd also not shut down based upon engine instrumentation alone unless landing was assured though I would look for a suitable spot to land immediately and set myself up for a landing.

Somebody (I forget who) told me "scan the panel from bottom right (the left/right/both/off control) anticlockwise until you've sorted it".

In my one partial engine failure I watched the instructor (several continents away from the person who told me this) do just that, and it worked.

An engine needs three things to run; fuel, air and sparks.

I check those things in that order so that means fuel - change tanks pump on etc. Air - Select hot or ram or filter or something appropriate and different. Sparks - are the mags on both or is there a possibility that one bad mag is dragging the engine down in which case selecting a single mag might be a good idea. This is a simplified and rapid check which will fix many engine related problems but still leave enough capacity to fly the aeroplane.

3 Point

3 point, my idea too. Although I start checking "air" first, as this check includes the carb heat. And carb heat is something that needs to be done immediately, otherwise there won't be any heat left.

Fuel, Air, Spark is my checklist.

Before answering 500 mans question I think I need to put a bit of context to my answer. What I am talking about is what I teach for the PPL student or low time PPL pilot. Since this group by definition does not have the benefit of a lot of experience a framework of procedures IMO is of significant practical value in helping them deal with abnormal situations.

So first we have to talk about the most likely scenario that a PPL will experience. It is not a sudden total engine failure with no warning, it will most likely be engine roughness and/or a reduction in engine power. The engine will still be running and producing enough power for the aircraft to maintain altitude, but the pilot feels that there is something definitely wrong.

The school I teach part time at flies C 172P's and for this scenario I expect them to go to the emergency checklist where I have added a checklist for engine roughness/Reduction in engine power. I want the student to methodically work through the checklist so that they don't forget anything.

It goes like this


Engine Roughness/Reduction in Engine Power

-Carb heat.........................................Full On for at least 30 sec
-Primer..............................................Full in and locked
-Engine gauges...................................Check
Note 1: if severe carb ice exists engine will initially run very rough until ice has cleared)

Note 2: If high oil temperature or low oil pressure is noted go to that checklist

If problem persists

-Carb heat........................................Cold
-Mixture ...........................................Full rich then lean to max RPM

If problem persists

- Mags............................................Select right and left mag individually
(Note if engine roughness is more pronounced on one mag select the other mag or both, whichever gives smoothest operation)

----------------Land at nearest suitable airport------------------------

If problem persists

- Fuel selector.................................Left for 2 mins

If problem persists............................Right for 2 mins

---------------Land at nearest suitable airport-------------------------

In addition to to this I have emphasized the importance monitoring the engine instruments in flight. Instructors now periodically and without warning cover the oil temp/press gauges and make sure the students know where the needle is actually pointing. (In the green is not a good enough answer ).

With respect to abnormal oil press/temp indications, these can indicate an developing mechanical internal engine failure potentially resulting in a total engine failure. This is the least likely cause of an engine failure but they do happen. The good news is there will almost always be some warning. Any internal misalignment or failure will almost always result in metal rubbing. This will cause a rapid rise in oil temperature with the oil temp gauge pegging at its maximum value. A dramatic drop in oil pressure will quickly follow. Any engine showing these signs should be presumed to be in danger of imminent total failure and appropriate actions to land ASAP should be taken. The only caveat is an open circuit in the oil temp wiring will cause the oil temp needle to peg at the highest temp. However in this case the oil pressure will be normal so it is likely just the gauge. However a landing at the nearest suitable airport would be prudent.

The next level of checks (Again for a C 172P) is a memory "cause check" intended to restore power when the engine fails or is producing so little power that the aircraft will not maintain altitude and with the aircraft more than 1000 feet AGL. If the aircraft is below 1000 feet then no cause check is done and the pilot concentrates on flying the aircraft to a survivable touch down point.

After establishing the gliding attitude and pointing the aircraft at the nearest survivable forced landing area.

Carb heat.......Full on
fuel ..............Both tanks
Mixture .........Full Rich
Mags.............Both/left/right/both

This check can be done in about 5 seconds if practiced. By that I mean every couple of flights you make a point of going through the sequence touching each control to build muscle memory.

If the reason the engine failed was caused by a mistake you made ( eg missing a build up of carb ice, running a tank dry, forgetting to enrichen the mixture and then adding a bunch of throttle) then these simple actions will restore power and instead of potentially wrecking a perfectly serviceable airplane after you smashed it into a field when the engine stopped, you will restore power, and fly away vowing never to do that again. :O

Don't forget that the accident statistic show that up to 80 % of the engine failures are caused by the actions or in actions of the pilot. The Cause check won't save you if you have run out of gas but it will save you from some other mistakes that are not all that hard to make.

Finally I also discuss the high altitude engine failure. This is one where you are cruising along more then 5000 feet above ground and you suffer a failure or gross loss of engine power. After doing the cause check and all the other appropriate actions preparing for the forced landing, assuming you are well placed for the field it may be possible to do some more advanced troubleshooting. A variety of carburetor/fuel injection failures can result in the engine only running at certain throttle or mixture settings. So consider going to mid range throttle setting and starting from full rich and then slowly leaning towards ICO. If that doesn't work go back to full rich and starting from full throttle slowly retard the throttle. Is that doesn't work try giving the engine a shot of prime. If the engine starts and then dies you can get some power back by setting a low throttle setting and continually pumping the primer. The little bit of power you can get may provide a useful stretch to the glide. However I must emphasize that these techniques must not get in the way of flying the aircraft and should be instantly abandoned if you start feeling pressured by trying to trouble shoot and manage the forced approach.

Finally I have presented the checks meant for a C 172P. They apply to most light GA aircraft except for C 172R or S models or other aircraft with fuel injected engines so for these aircraft where the check says carb heat insert "alternate air" and for low wing aircraft like Pipers and Grummans where the check says fuel to both, insert fuel.... change tank and boost pump on.

So 500 man, I Hope that answers your question.

Thanks for all the contributions!

That's an easy one to remember! I like it.

Good point. Waiting 2 mins on a tank would probably feel like forever so I can quite believe some pilots might not stick to that. It also makes me wonder about flight attitude. If you have unusable fuel presumably there are attitudes where you can still pick up the last bit of usable fuel?

Thanks for that BPF.

Looking at potential engine related problems, I've scraped together the following list which are all problems listed in various POHs and the Lycoming engine operations manual. These are all things which a pilot can get some indication of in flight and possibly do something about. It's not a complete list by any means so feel free to add to it, but if we are thinking about a check list for engine related issues we should consider what problems can occur and what indications there may be. The fixes are only suggestions so don't take them as absolute gospel!

Idle roughness - Sometimes accompanied by a loss of power which can lead to stoppage in slow flight. Caused by an excessively rich idle fuel flow.

Fix - Leaning the mixture may improve roughness or be required to restart.

Engine driven fuel pump failure - Sudden reduction in fuel flow immediately followed by a total loss of power.

Fix - Switch on the boost pump.

Insufficient fuel - Oops!

Fix - Change tanks if you can!

Excessive fuel vapour - On injected engines may cause fuel flow variations and power surges which may lead to power loss. More likely to occur while taxiing.

Fix - Boost pump on, adjust mixture for smooth operation and if the problem continues try changing tanks.

Contamination - Most likely water which may cause fluctuating RPM, power loss or even stoppage. Other than noticing it I don't think there is much that can be done about it in flight.

Fix - Better preflight?

Lycoming:
Spark plug fouling - Caused by carbon or lead deposits forming mainly due to excessively rich mixtures. Identified by an obvious power loss running on an individual magneto.

Fix - Appropriate leaning should resolve this in flight.

Magneto malfunction - Sudden engine roughness or misfiring.

Fix - Select each magneto individually to identify the culprit and select the good magneto only. Different power or mixture settings may enable continued operation on both magnetos.

Intake ice/ carburettor ice - impact or refrigeration ice leading to rough running, power loss or stoppage.

Fix - With an injected engine use alternate air to bypass the blockage and carburettor heat on a carburetted engine (30s - 2min).

Q. If you had intake icing and had switched to alternate air, at what point would you consider switching back? Or would you at all?

Broken or deformed baffles/ seals/ cowl flaps - Reduction in cooling air around the engine. Higher than normal CHT or oil temperature. Possibly leading to pre-ignition (over heating spark plug barrels).

Fix - Reduce temperature by either en-richening the mixture, reducing power, or opening cowl flaps, or a combination of all three.

Oil loss - High oil temperature accompanied by low pressure likely means a failure is imminent. Likewise high oil pressure caused by a blocked breather tube may lead to a crankshaft nose seal rupturing and a spectacular loss of oil.

Fix - None

Interesting side note about preventing freezing in breather tubes which extend into the airflow (from Lycoming):

Detonation - May be caused by leaning at high power settings and is unlikely to be noticeable unless severe.

Pre-ignition - Usually indicated by roughness, backfiring and a sudden increase in CHT.

Fix - (from Lycoming Engine Operations Manual)
That's all I've got time for, but one last note of interest from Lycoming:

One other note...An engine monitor, like the EDM830 we have fitted is also very valuable. If the Oil P went zero yet the EDM showed normal, then I'd consider it an indication problem.

Likewise if (for example) one cylinder starts to get hot or oil temp exceeds the pre-defined red-line limits we entered (or any other paramater being monitored exceeds a max or min limit) then we have a big red light which starts flashing on the panel. We can then cross check the EDM with primary instruments and if both agree then it is very quick to realise that there is an actual problem rather than a gauge problem. I highly recommend a decent engine monitor.

(plus you can download the data after a flight and keep a historical trend of each parameter. Useful for examining you engine's health over time).

500 Man

To your list you can add

Abnormally high Oil Temperature/Cylinder Head Temperature: If the temperature is high but stable, open cowl flaps (if fitted), mixture full rich, increase airspeed (if climbing). If the oil temperature is steadily increasing and past the redline with a major drop in oil pressure then as I mentioned above you should consider the engine likely to fail and land ASAP.

I suppose that also highlights the use of maximum continuous power rather than full power in high speed cruise or extended climbs.

I discovered that an aircraft with an injected engine may not actually require the manual selection of alternate air when intake icing occurs as this can be automatic. Varying amounts of alternate air can be automatically selected depending on the severity of the blockage.

Sounds like a useful bit of kit but presumably it must have duplicate probes to do this?

Yea, you fill up the CHT holes in the heads with probes, you put EGT probes in each cylinder exhaust, new oil pressure and temp sensors (Lycomings have space for second oil temp sensor), RPM sensor, Manifold Pressure sensor, Carb temp probe, TIT probe, fuel flow sensor and OAT probe.

With all those extra goodies, when does it get to be too heavy to take off? Does anyone run courses into how to understand the data stream being thrown back!!!

Easy answer to all the problems - PT6, Difficult to fit on the Kit Fox though.

Joking aside - keep it simple will get you out of most problems

Not a particularly useful statement.

So Joe/Jane PPL is flying along and the engine starts to run rough, what would you expect him/her to do under the guise of "keeping it simple" ?

The solution to most of this is good education (lacking at ALL flight schools) and good instrumentation.

With good education and practises, you are less likely to suffer serious problems, as they usually start as minor ones. These you fix long before they are major.

Detonation is hard to create in a normal environment with a conforming engine on conforming fuel. However, short of having an all cylinder EMS and alarms set wisely you will never detect it in mild to medium to severe forms.

Pre-ignition is not likely to show you any signs either, until it is all too late, and this may be as soon as a few minutes from when it started. In a car perhaps, but not in a plane. Unless you see a CHT rising at a rapid rate, you will not know. Without an EMS and wisely set alarms, you will not know. You will not hear any backfiring! Folk who have had preignition failures and had engine monitors to capture the data, did not know anything apart from a weird CHT reading.

So in short, the engine monitor AND education in what it is really telling you (not from the local aero club or flight school who know nothing) are the best things you can invest your money in.

There are several good EMS products around to suit either certified or experimental aircraft and the only good source of education on the planet that I know of is at Advanced Pilot

Anyone who argues otherwise, is simply wrong, they are entitled to be wrong, but just don't follow their blind ignorance, your family will appreciate your vigilance.

Time for another LOP thread? :E

jabowocky

Your absolute statement that "everyone else is wrong" is correct for the 2 % of the GA fleet where the aircraft is fully instrumented and you always fly the same aircraft. The second point is important because all engines run a bit differently and the true value of engine organizers is seeing the subtle deviations from normal that are indicators of a potential problem that you will only get to know from hours and hours of watching that engine.

For the other 98 % of the GA community and other than Peter 337, what I am guessing is everybody else reading this thread, your advice is completely and utterly useless.

The vast majority of GA pilots will be flying aircraft with only the basic engine gauges of RPM, oil pressure, oil temperature and ammeter. "Advanced" engine instruments likely not found in most aircraft, will only consist of a basically useless single probe EGT, and or CHT and maybe a carb temp gauge.

Therefore IMHO the knowledge delta isn't about a pilots not knowing how to run LOP, it is how to properly lean a carburated engine with no good EGT information.

Similarly the lack of knowledge and skill for recognizing and dealing with carb ice at the PPL level is truly frightening.

Finally while crude and insensitive the oil press and oil temp gauge will usually give you warning of an impending internal engine mechanical failure if you pay attention to what they are saying.

One pet peeve of mine is how few instructor insist on checking that the engine is making full static RPM at the beginning of the takeoff run.

A while ago I was asked to help out at a flying school. On the first lesson, flying a C 150, I thought the engine was a bit rough on runup. Sure enough on the takeoff as soon as the student had applied full throttle I checked the RPM and it was 150 RPM below the POH minimum static RPM range. We rejected the takeoff and maintenance confirmed a dead cylinder and metal in the filter which resulted in an engine change. The sad part of this story was that when the news of the engine condition became known the dispatcher said " You know the instructors have been complaining for 2 weeks that that airplane was a dog " :ugh:

Ok you and Peter can now get on with obsessing about LOP operation in privately owned high performance aircraft ;)

And goldeneagle pilot still waiting for your thoughts on "keeping it simple" :confused:

BPF

Forgive me if I have this wrong, but this forum section is private flying, not ab-initio training, and I would think even there a greater need for education exists. So I do not subscribe to your 2% theory. We should not be catering for the lowest common denominator, we should be trying to raise the bar. Always!

As you say, all engines run a bit different, but you know, the subtle differences are not that significant. I can get out of one and into another and if something is amiss it is not found by absolute numbers (except where is rather obvious) it is from trends. Believe me, if you have a preignition event, it will not be hidden in the subtle differences you mention.

For the other 98% of people, I think the rest of my post is even more relevant as it requires even greater understanding to operate with a high degree of efficiency sans the instruments. Sure you can run around full rich all day long, but for the most part people use aeroplanes to go places, not just do circuits. Well at least here they do anyway! :O

Indeed! :ok: However with some really good knowledge, you can get by with this operationally, running LOP even, however it is sub optimal in fault diagnosis. In fact the carby temp sensor is a very useful tool for running a Carby engine LOP ;)

As this thread is about engine checks, having an EMS really helps in knowing things are right or wrong Vs only thinking they are right or wrong. The point here being, if the readers of this thread have any influence at all on the machine they operate, they should be thinking harder about this. For example, you have a slightly rough engine doing a runup/mag check, done LOP or at peak you can detect the fault and most likely diagnose exactly what it is. Done ROP and no instruments, you might not even detect the problem that is developing over time. This in itself can save thousands of dollars in mechanics bills. Being able to taxi to the workshop and say, No5 cylinder bottom plug needs replacing sure beats the hours and hours of hit and miss diagnosis and maintenance.

Not having this stuff and dismissing its promotion to those who do not is kind of like saying, hey, back 40 years ago we did not have seat belts, ABS, radial tyres, disc brakes, coil springs and airbags. So why buy that BMW, or better still buy it but rip out all that complicated and heavy stuff. Those who still drive around in less capable cars today do so with greater safety than years ago, why? Because they do not know how many accidents they have avoided because everyone else is driving better equipment and not hitting them. Same goes for aviation technology.

Indeed, however I wonder how many can actually do this, and to do it really well you do need another instrument not even mentioned thus far. But I digress.

Education in flying schools, dummed down, full of Old Wives Tales, resistant to change to data based facts, and taught by 200 hour pilots who know nothing about flying more than to pass an exam, which are often full of the above problems as well. :rolleyes: So am I surprised at your story.....not one bit!

Peter, start one if you want, but make sure it is full of really good questions and not some bunch of bozo's sprouting all the same crap I hear from usually old and respected but not very wise men. ;)

Jabawocky

I guess we will have to agree to disagree on your theme as the proportion of the GA fleet equipped with a full boat engine analyzer, at least in Canada, is so small that operating techniques based on its use are like the SOP's for flying a jet, interesting but ultimately irrelevant to the average private aircraft pilot; like the person who started this thread.




I do have a question about the above comment. Personally I have operated the following GA carburated engines:

Continental, C65/C85, O200, O300, O470, O520,

Lycoming O235, O 320, O360, O435, O540, and

165 hp Franklin

I have never been able to lean any of these engines to true LOP because they all will start to run rough due to the inherent poor mixture distribution. SO I am quite interested in what engine(s) you are talking about and what technique you use to achieve smooth operation at LOP.

Why do people think the probes etc are too heavy? A Rotax 912 comes with most of the probes as standard and adding coolant temp and EGT’s adds very little weight. Most of the Rotax powered machines I know are very well monitored with 2 X EGT, 2 X CGT, Oil Temp, Oil Pressure, Water temp, volts, and in some cases fuel flow. It is the old stuff which is reliant on out of date tec. It is true that most instructors find all this info confusing but adequate engine monitoring is a huge help in preventing a small issue growing into a failure.

Rod1

Huh?

I argue otherwise. Engine monitoring systems are a nice to have, and very handy for diagnosing some engine problems in very rare occasions. Diagnosing engine problems is great, if you get it early, and if you're in time to fix early. For that, I support their use - if the pilot knows what they are looking at. But if that problem has already shown symptoms in flight, you're also having to deal with it and fly the plane, perhaps as an inflight emergency. I have certainly flown with pilots of abnormally well instrumented aircraft, who were paying so much attention to the indications, that they forgot to fly the plane - and what they were seeing was really of little benefit to them anyway by that point.

All certified aircraft have engine operating instructions - just follow them! Keep the engine properly maintained, and serviced with the proper liquids, operate it as instructed by the manual, and it will run. The few pennys you might save by extreme leaning and other tactics are lost on a carburetted engine, because as Big Pistons correctly points out, no carburetted engine has fuel flow even enough to each cylinder to run "properly" leaned - that's just the way it is, and you the pilot cannot change that, so just pay for the fuel, and fly the plane. The only way a scanner can help with leaning is to assure that you are leaning to the leanest cylinder when reading the indication, and allowing you to find a power setting which has a more equal fuel distribution than other power settings, so your leaning is more meaningful. In reality, however, the generic "lean 'till first rough, then enrichen to smooth again" instruction works about as well as watching a scanner for 10 minutes while fooling with the mixture.

I have installed scanners for certification flight testing, where data collection well beyond the scope of any GA pilot was required. Two were for detonation testing - that's a whole other discussion, other than to say that if you operate as instructed, you will not detonate the engine. Incorrect leaning of an otherwise properly operated engine can cause damage, but not because detonation is a factor in that damage.

Both my planes do have multi cylinder scanners (left over from testing), and both are carburetted. All the scanners tell me is that I don't really need them 99.95% of the time! I do not peak, or lean of peak lean, as both engines prohibit it (same logic as not over speeding or over stressing it). Their only real benefit is that you can log a changing trend - if you notice in time, and you can identify which cylinder is sticking an exhaust valve or fouling a plug, in real time, and that's informative on the very rare occasion it happens. Though if you stick a valve, and have only that cylinder repaired, you're fooling yourself (and your family may thing you not vigilant!). Other than that, the operating instructions for the engine describe what you need to know to operate it the way it was approved. What else were you thinking to do?

My guidance is not blind in saying the forgoing, as I am delegated to certify the designs of these engines, including detonation testing. I write operating and maintenance manual supplements. The first thing we look for are safe operating margins, and instructions, which if followed, keep the engine well within those margins. People choose a certified aircraft [and engine] for the security of knowing it has been thoroughly tested. It has, so operate it the way is supposed to be. I am unaware that any aircraft has been certified as requiring an engine scanner as a part of it's type design - because they are not really needed!

If someone wants to install one, by all means. Don't let it distract you from the safe operation of the aircraft. Use it to follow (not circumvent) the engine manufacturer's operating instructions. And learn to use it properly. Most flying schools probably struggle to employ instructors who are conversant with the different scanner types, their relevance, and their correct operation. And students hardly want to spend an extra 5 hours of flight training costs to learn what it is telling them, and the relevance.

My family appreciates that I keep myself current and recent, and that I operate the aircraft legally, safely, and in accordance with it's instructions. More than that, they do not ask of me....

:)

In my experience, some of those but not all. All the lycomings, the bigger CMI's and no idea on a franklin or a piper cub, but there is a half chance they will too.

Of course you would need to have some instrumentation and education to do it. Refer to my first post.

And I should say, Radials are better, and you must have a well maintained "conforming" engine. Otherwise you are chasing your tail, but it soon helps fix induction leaks and plug/ignition deficiencies when you do try!

I hope you are not thinking of leaving the dark side now are you? ;) :}


PS: this stuff is not something that can be taught on a internet forum so I am not about to try here. As Walter Atkinson will tell you, we can't just give you a cook book with a recipe, you need to learn to cook before you become a master chef!

Can't be taught on an internet forum eh :hmm:

That must be the new internet code for "I don't really know what I am talking about" :rolleyes:

Believe what you will.....
 

I am not going to debate point by point here, if I did I would spend hours and hours and still not get the message across. So here is something to prompt your interest further, or just ignore it. But do not take all the others down with you when I say they should be educating themselves further. That is like telling your kids, don't worry about high school, all you ever need you get in Primary school.

It is funny that the ones who always argue against this stuff are always those who do not have it. Both instruments and education. It never ceases to amaze me how many people do not know what they do not know. (myself included)

Enough for today.....

No it is code for, to educate properly a few minutes here and there with banter on an internet forum, with all the distractions from morons on the sidelines, would take something like 10 years.... or it would feel like it.

The APS guys are continualy teaching free of charge on some internet forums, however they have found the bulk of the information does not sink in. When placed in a class room for several days with lots of good materials, real dyno runs and explaining the science of combustion properly, eventually folk start to understand things rather than just know a few things.

I have a friend who is a former NASA space shuttle astronaught, if I asked hime to get on here and explain a certain aspect of space shuttle missions, he would laugh at the prospect, but get you in a briefing room surrounded with the right stuff for a few days, and you too would learn what they know.

This is the wrong form of media for such things.

If I started now, all it would do is cause a squabbling mess and have a thread closed, and you would be none the wiser for it.

So it is code for read my previous post and seek the education from those who provide it very well indeed.

:}:}:}:} That reminds me of Burt Reynolds in Smokey and the Bandit.....
At 1min 3 seconds

I agree 100%

For a non instrumented engine, flown by various people at various times, and "maintained as usual", it is likely to be the only warning of a proportion of e.g. the camshaft getting gradually relocated to the oil filter :)

Example

I sent that report to a couple of respected US engine shops and both said the oil filter would have been full of metal - chromium specifically.

Re weight, it is not significant. I would think my EDM700 installation weighs about 2-3kg, with all the probes.

However I think accurate fuel flow, in the form of a GPS-linked totaliser, is equally important if one is to go places with confidence.

That's true but do you need to know the internals of combustion, to configure an engine correctly for each phase of flight? No.

This is an attempt of mine at condensing what one needs to know and I think it is short enough.

Internet presents the greatest learning medium by far, for the 99% of pilots whose initial training was prob99 p1ss poor. I suppose its value is going down for various reasons (forums filling up with banal ex-Iphone one-liners is my favourite ;) ) but if you ask a decent question (worded like you actually care for a useful reply, which is itself a skill) in the right place you will eventually get a decent reply. I learnt far more from the internet than I learnt from JAA & FAA PPL, FAA CPL, FAA & JAA IR theory.

Nobody has said listen to the engine. I mainly fly with an O200, just RPM and electrical oil temp and press - whose readings have on two occasions been affected by a bad connection. In the last year, we've spotted two potential problems early by responding to a slight changes in engine sound.

Peter

I would counter that claim with a Yes! I like your simplified article link, however there are a few things in there that need editing and refining. The biggest problem I have with it though is it is a "cookbook" approach, and not a thorough understanding approach. Herein lies the problem. It talks about "deep LOP" whatever that is? 80LOP is not deep LOP, it would be at low powers say 65% but at 80% or more it is the exact place you need to be. So here a cookbook approach does not work for all people in all missions.

This is why I say there is a difference between knowing stuff and understanding stuff. There is a big difference. Have you done an APS course? If not you should, you will enjoy it. Worth every penny.

You are quite correct in your assessment of flight training schools.

To finish up, I can believe you when you say you learned far more from the internet than any of the FAA/JAR etc training books. Problem is, they are full of little gems, that are all wrong!! :ugh:

The truth of the matter is, and APS survey their students going in and out and analise how well they perform as teachers every time, and it has proven that the internet in random forms of information is not the best teacher. What is a better teacher is a well structured, "building block" approach to educating. You must understand some critical things to move onto the next phase. (Anyone remember missing some critical maths classes :ouch:) So their course is structured that way. The APS ONLINE course is cleverly constructed so that you can't progress until you understand via small quizz sessions at milestone points.

I have searched, there is nothing better.

The only thing I think that is "all wrong" is your assertion that you alone represent the sole provider of correct information. I post on things I think are of value to the pprune community but I would be the last guy to say "this is the only way to do XXX". I make a big effort at presenting not only the "what" but also the "why" for everything I post on. That way readers can see where I am coming from and decide if my information or advice has any value to them.

IMO your posts are just a waste of internet bandwidth and so I will not use up ppruners time with any further responses to your comments.