One cannot run a relationship on that basis - unless the other person is away at the w/e doing their own stuff and this is mutually accepted from the outset.

I think GA as a hobby needs to be similarly sorted up front... many women dislike unless they can get to nice places, but that (e.g. Cannes) isn't so easy...

Well perhaps I'll forget the gliding idea then... my husband certainly isn't going to start any time soon (not a keen flier) and I don't fancy spending the entire weekend away from him given that we both have jobs which require a lot of our time during the week. GA is one thing - a few hours here and there - but a whole day would be too much for both of us I think.

I don't want to be down on gliding - because it's a fabulous hobby.

It is hugely time consuming though.

What's wrong with something you love doing being time consuming? Gliding gives a huge pleasure value for little money, and it is real sport.
Most PPL pilots spend a lot of time too, apres-flying in the clubhouse. Flying hours are expensive. If I weren't so hell-bent on going places I too would go gliding.

Sorry but where did I say there was anything wrong with it?

I said it was a fabulous hobby but very time consuming.

I think that is a fair appraisal of it?

Nothing wrong with it - just make sure your personal life revolves around the same activity as well. I have known too many pilots (and many more ex pilots) who thought otherwise... One nice chap I used to fly with was told by his wife (when she found herself pregnant) to stop flying for the sake of the kid (or else). He stopped flying. Now, that is occassional GA. Gliding is a full-time weekend hobby; a bit like a sailing club, and you have to square that with your other half before you get into it.

I think one finds a similar division of "weekend time allocation" in GA, too, between the IFR-capable pilots (who just want a plane, and a hangar for it to sit, and all the facilities like somebody moving the plane out for when they need it, and they are willing to pay for it) and the farm strip flyer (who is much more content to get into his local pilot community at the strip).

Unfortunately too many (IMHO) GA pilots are single and somewhat grumpy men, which in turn ensures that few women come into this game, which in turn keeps it that way :)

I dont know. It is as time consuming as you make it. I spend far too long on PPRuNe but quite enjoy that as an occasional distraction when I am using my computer. I fly a little over 100 hours a year on a combination of business and pleasure. I use to spend some time on organising maintenance etc but that is all done for me now so it is entirely turn up and go. Nearly every flight is for a purpose at the destination so I would end up driving there anyway. I do try and fly about four or five hours a year for "training" and to make sure I am not doing too many silly things but a few hours of that is taken up with the twin rating, SEP and keeping two licenses going.

So while it can be very time consuming equally it can be as time consuming as you want it to be. Only yesterday I was musing how many of us fly for the pure pleasure of flying. However as much as I enjoy flying I think you can reach the point where it becomes a means to end, a way of getting from A to B, but having some fun along the way. I am not sure if most of my flying was just to keep current and to enjoy coffee at another flying club somewhere whether I would still be doing it.

To be honest I can't think any form of flying is often a way of meeting a partner, especially for straight men. My club is almost all men, most of them are married and most of them are over 60.

However several of them are married to women who are delighted for them to go to the club several days on the trot as now they are retired they find having hubby around all the time is far, far to annoying.

Let's put it this way, if flying in any form is going to cause problems in a relationship, I don't think it's the flying that's at fault but the relationship...

Much as I love gliding I'd have to agree.. you can't really go gliding in the morning with plans for the rest of the afternoon; you may finish up in a field, and for that matter you won't make too many friends if you turn up, fly, then toddle off.

On the flipside, I often do precisely that with powered a/c. As for meeting girls, go do something like dancing. In fact if you do both you might discover quite a pool of girls for whom the offer of a spare seat to sit in might be quite a draw.. neatly killing two birds with one stone :ok:

And Juno78 has a rather good point.. I can't understand why people who have active interests settle with partners who want to spend their entire life pottering around the house..

Yeah, people choose their partners for all kinds of weird (and bad) reasons. I should know; it cost me a lot of money ;) I think most men choose their woman out of a tiny available pool (e.g. place of work) and always have done. One would think internet dating would have changed that but mentioning GA as a hobby drops the response rate by 99% :)

You could get a job at BT. Then, morris dancing is mandatory ;) I know a retired BT engineer who does really well with that.

Who has read that book "Propellerhead"? Basically it involved a city lad who bought a Thruster and hoped to get laid, and was spectacularly unsuccessful. Which doesn't suprise me.....

Time to dig out that old joke...

A pilot is out on a date. Halfway, he says "now that's enough talking about planes. Let's talk about ME".

And if the gurl has any brains and thinks you are a commercial pilot she will run a mile because they are mostly unfaithful.

How can you tell you are on a date with a pilot ? Halfway through dinner he/she says "well thats enough talk about flying, lets talk about me" :}

I beat you by 1 minute :)

Well I met my misses before I started flying. Now, when she see's the bank account drain at the end of each month she knows she got well and truly shafted!!

Mind you, she wouldn't have it any other way! (So I'm told.....):}

Tell a girl that your an FI and they think you're loaded, little do they realise that you're actually less well off than you were as a teenager thanks to the unique way that flying schools are funded...

Anyhoo, back to the OP.

Something isn't right if you have been stuck in the circuit for 16 hours. My first suggestion is that your FI is an idiot, but not having met them, then I won't presume anything, however what is clear is that they have a huge lack of imagination.

I'm surprised that you haven't jumped out halfway through a circuit detail as you are bored beyond belief.

Just bashing around the circuit is not helping you. In fact it is now having a damaging effect, the fact that you are posting on here about it proves that. If your FI isn't smart enough to realise this on their own, then I suggest a change might be in order.

I am in a similar position, I got to about 12 hours and just couldn't get the landings. I got quite depressed about it (£130 an hour to get p****d off...) My instructor realised this and we started doing navexs (which I can do) combined with circuits at other airports, so I get experience of not being able to land on other runways.

I have only done this three times but I'm really enjoying learning again and the different runways are improving my landings. I would recomend asking your instructor. You are paying after all for something supposed to be fun.

Amen to that :
I had a brief love affair with gliding when I was at University, hoping to build on the BGA A and B certs I'g got for free (well, for one
one shilling a day mess fees) at RAF Henlow in the early 60s.

So I joined my University Gliding club which at that time operated from a large regional airport not a milloin miles from where I sit now until it got chucked off for, among other things smashing too many runway lights).

I was designated winch driver where i'd stay all day hoisting up the glitterati of the club, mending broken cables (which was a frequent occurrence, the club bought RAF cast offs and used them to death) and other stuff until finally just as the sun was setting I'd get a freebie circuit with an instructor.

A summer of that put me off gliding for good.

Discovered power flying 30 years later and haven't looked back: Time taken can be estimated pretty accurately.

Cusco

That just about sums up gliding for me too. When I got good enough to fly the club 'hot' ships I would book to fly at say 1PM (you were only allowed 1 hr max unless on a task), spend all morning sitting on the winch/repairing cables/DI'ing said hot ship when one of the 'club fathers' would come along at 12.45, take your ship, do some local soaring for two hours, land and then bugger off. Used to make me spit blood and was the real reason I packed in TBH, but gliding itself is the sport of kings.

Back on topic, at my school it's SOP (well, it is for my FI and I believe it is for the others as well) for all students to have a couple of hours of training with some of the other FIs in the school around 10-15 hours in, even if the training is going well, to enable the student to have a look at possibly slightly different style of flying and give them a reference point to compare their own FI to to see how good the chemistry and progress is.

So, I went up with a different instructor today, and explained to him beforehand that I was getting frustrated and didn't really know what it was I needed to improve on, so we had a good run through the circuit in the briefing, talked through what I thought I was getting wrong and how to fix them, and proceeded to do pretty much the best landings I've done.

Upshot being that he thinks that if the wind is calm enough next weekend (15kt crosswind today) then he would hope to be able to get me solo, and if it's windy we'll go off and do a navex which he's given me a route to prepare for. So definitely feel more positive about the whole thing having someone who seems to be actively managing things better!

Good. Sounds like you've got someone with a bit more nous there. Stick with them.

Interesting - I never knew gliding was like that. For some reason I thought people had their own gliders and either kept them at their club or trailered them about, then booked the use of either a tug or winch to get them airborne.

No, club gliding means for the majority of pilots flying club aircraft, much like SEP flying I imagine (I may of course be wrong). Glider owners actually tend to be quite good at taking their share of duties. Because they usually want a hand rigging their gliders...Gliding clubs are all self help, there's a rota for winch driving/aerotowing, cable retrieve, duty pilot, duty this that and the other. Some people think that rotas are for other members though and they can just turn up, fly and go home. Every gliding club has them. Most members of most clubs accept this, although not gladly of course. I, having more of a sense of right and wrong and of people taking the p*** and being a well built chap who used to box, tended to tell them what I thought.....

The strangest thing was that other members who would mumble into their beer at the clubhouse complaining quietly never liked it if I gave friendly and much needed advice to people. You can't please some folk.

There are many people who expect a "service" and are willing to pay a set price for it. I think this is reasonable. You go to a restaurant; you are not expecting to have to help out in the kitchen.

I suspect quite a few turn up at a gliding club, not realising the scene is like that.

Example: I windsurf, on the sea. There is a "community" but basically you can do it all on your own (on the sea, anyway). Up the road is a huge lake and seeing loads of boating etc there I thought I will give it a try, and drove there to enquire. I was sent off to a snotty sailing club manager who explained that nobody was allowed to be a member unless they helped with certain duties, and would be evicted if they missed 3+ duty assignments.

He also added that I "did not have big enough t*ts" at which point I got the message :)

People might turn up at a gliding club not realising the 'scene' is like that but after several years at same gliding club you would have thought the penny would have dropped...

You don't pay for any service at a gliding club other than membership and flying fees, everything is voluntary, but not voluntary as in 'I may be charitable and volunteer to be duty pilot.'

Surely this is the difference between a "club" and a "school".

I'm currently doing some training with a school, I turn up, pre-flight the aeroplane, fly with an instructor wearing a uniform, park it at the end, and pay.

I also am a longstanding member of a true flying club - I help out with jobs around the airfield, take time to introduce members, even occasionally get a spade out and fill in the rabbit holes in the runway.

Strangely enough, the first costs a shedload more money, whilst the latter is a lot more fun in the end, I have a lot more friends there, and money notwithstanding I'll stay with them far far longer. But we pretty much all still need a flying school occasionally.

G

Juno78 - Standby ...I'll be back to reply to you in just a mo!

IO540 - "did not have big enough t*ts"

I actually think you have big tits ... well you certainly act like one for putting a statement like this ...

"And if the gurl has any brains and thinks you are a commercial pilot she will run a mile because they are mostly unfaithful."

... mostly unfaithful ... not all pilots are b*stards. My husband is an airline pilot and I think that you have just made a huge sweeping statement. So just watch it Mr! := However i'm in a good mood today and so I will forgive you for your pompous opinionated statement. :)

Juno78 - It took me around 30 hours so do not be disheartened by 'sky-gods' who can solo in under 10 hours (like my hubby :ouch:). I gained my PPL at OFT (Florida) in 2006. I started my PPL trainning in a C-152 :ugh:but just didn't get on with them. My landings were an issue, I was flaring either too high or too low. It got to the point that my instructor was unsure of what to do with me, so we used to fly off to quieter airfields to practice circuits there. I remember flying one day and I felt pretty unhappy about how unstable the aircraft felt as it was a gusty day and I had almost given up with the whole idea of trying to gain my licence. I told my instructor that I wanted to see if I felt happier in the Cadet (PA-28). I was glad that I asked to change aircraft because within 4 hours of changing I had gone solo. The fact that I also had 7 different instructors didn't help me either. In hindsight I now wish that i'd got my licence in UK ... but that's another story.

I remember my first lesson in USA and I did not enjoy it. I remember feeling unhappy about how bumpy it was in the air. I had previous flying experience of flying with instructors and experienced pilots in the UK, but I the idea of having to fly the aircraft on my own was not a happy one. I think that fact that I had set out on my goal of gaining my PPL in a short space of time made me feel really pressurised.

When you fly your circuits do you make sure that you fly accurate headings, have correct power settings and the correct heights? I know that sometimes it can be hard to do this bang on every time, but if you can get these as near to 'bang on' as possible your instructor might feel happier about letting you go. When I was learning to fly someone who I knew flew with had an instructor who didn't seem that comfortable with flying herself, and he felt that because she was nervous she was over-demanding. Who knows? He asked to fly with a different instructor and he solo'd shortly after this.

I've flown with instructors who unless you fly the circuit 'bang on' aren't happy to let you go. But as someone else on this thread pointed out, you don't have to do perfect circuits to be sent solo, just safe ones. You can go on to polish your circuits to perfection afterwards ... if you want! From talking to instructors (and my hubby who has also instructed) they just want to see 3 good circuits before sending you solo.

I think that if I was you i'd look into flying from Tollerton, but then i'm biased as i'm from Nottingham originally. I have also flown (prior to my PPL) with friends from there. It seems like a lovely airfield and they do have a warrior there. I don't think that flying from East Mids is a good idea because of the fact that they handle commercial traffic and if you are asked to hold for it, it will be eating into your circuit time ££££££

It's a shame that you aren't nearer as you could come with me as I fly regularly.

Keep us posted and feel free to PM me :)

Assuming all of the basic exercises have been taught correctly and the student is up to standard, the only new thing that you are trying to learn in the circuit is the take off and landing. In most cases it is only the landing you are trying to perfect.

16 hours implies a more fundamental problem than just the landing and perhaps it is time to go back to some of the basic exercises to ensure that the basic skills are up to speed. If they are not, then progress will be slow.

Circuit flying is a critical phase and having more concentrated lessons would be agood idea to try get past this hurdle.

I have flown with numerous students in a similar position and usually find that watching one circuit tells all. In most cases the problem is basic flying skills that need to be or improved, or have not been taught properly. This is best done away from the circuit.

Try flying with another instructor.

Phewwww that was a close one...

Hi again everyone,

Well, went for a second lesson with the new instructor today, and he said at the start that as the wind was almost calm he wanted to get me to solo today, and that he basically just needed to see me do three good circuits first. So we went up and did a couple, which seemed to go fine, and after the second landing he took control and started slowing us down - at which point I though "gosh, I must be doing something pretty wrong!" but no, he said he was going to let me go up on my own. Woooooo!

He jumped out and I carried on by myself, and all absolutely fine apart from a rain shower that I could see heading my way while on downwind, and that I met just as I was turning base, but I was clear of it again by the time I got set up on final. Landing wasn't the softest I've ever done but it certainly wasn't particularly ropey. On mentioning the rain my instructor said that was why he'd let me out after two circuits because he'd been able to see the rain coming and wanted to give me a chance to go up before it got to us properly!

So very happy today, and thanks to everyone for your advice - clearly changing instructor was just the thing! Actually looking forward to more circuits now I can do them by myself :D

(Incidentally, although I noticed it climbed slightly quicker without two on board, it didn't seem to feel any different otherwise - quite relieved about that!)

Let me be the first to congratulate you!

Fantastic, well done Juno - that's the big hurdle passed, the rest of learning is a shedload more fun.

G

Well done Juno! That is one flight and one day you will forever recall.
Hats off to your instructor as well, he really does seem to have your interests at heart.

Cheers,

http://www.augk18.dsl.pipex.com/Smileys/beerbig.gif

Neppie

Well done! Woohoo!!

If we can be allowed to go off-topic this far: I do remember the excitement of my first solo - and of the next, less exciting though, when checked out on other types of craft - well done, and keep up the good memory - and do say thanks to that instructor. Blue skies now!

I clearly recall that about my first solo. Plus the fact that the thing just didn't want to touch down at the end. Guess my instructor was a bit heavier than he looked!

Congrats anyway :D

I also discovered that planes go up much faster when the (in my case "sturdily built" :oh:) instructor gets out. On my first solo the thing positively leapt off the ground, and my friend who was waiting near the far end of the runway (having watched the preceding half an hour of circuits in the freezing depths of winter) missed his shot of me leaving the ground alone for the first time, because I was already sailing over his head. :}

:D Well done Juno! Congratulations. :ok:

Thanks everyone :) Also really pleased my husband was there because he doesn't always come along to the airfield. He's not very keen on flying at all (we didn't get on a plane together at all for the first two years we were together cos he really hated it at the time) but he said he'd consider getting in the Robin with me after watching me go round by myself :D