Stuck in the circuit
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Stuck in the circuit
Hi guys and girls,
I'm hoping for a bit of reassurance / inspiration as I'm starting to get a bit frustrated with my PPL training!
I've been taking lessons since March 2009. I've been doing circuits since July 2009, and I'm starting to wonder whether I'm ever going to move on. Unfortunately, as I imagine is the case for a lot of people, I can't afford to fly every day, and I'm generally managing two lessons a month, occasionally three. Over the winter I had a lot cancelled due to the weather, and so overall my circuits have been pretty sporadic.
I totted up the hours in my log book this evening, and of my 25 hours so far, 16 have been spent flying circuits without yet having soloed. It's not that I'm worried per se about being "slower than average" or anything like that, but to be quite honest I'm just getting a bit bored and frustrated of flying around the same bit of airspace every time. So I suppose I have two questions:
1. Is that actually a fairly normal number of hours to be spending in the circuit before reaching solo, and it just feels like a long time because it's been spread out over the course of a year? I'm generally a quick learner and I'm fairly well co-ordinated (my other hobby is kart racing) so I wouldn't generally expect to take longer than average, but I suppose you never know what you are and aren't going to be good at!
2. Is it actually feasible to learn and make progress in such a sporadic fashion or do you really need a more concentrated period of time, and am I therefore just wasting money by having one lesson and then two or three weeks off? If so I'd be inclined to take a break, save up a few grand and then do one or two lessons a week for a while.
I appreciate that the monetary situation is going to have to get better if I want to do this as a long-term activity - fortunately I'm in a career where my salary should go up by a decent amount in the next few years (I'm a recently-qualified solicitor), so it's more a question of what I should do at this point. If the answer is go gliding for three years and come back to engines, then fair enough.
Any wisdom much appreciated! I'm going to talk to my CFI about it this weekend, but I always think the more points of view you have the better
EDIT oh, and I fly at a small airfield so no time to speak of hanging about waiting for a slot - I usually manage 5 or 6 circuits for an hour of logbook time.
I'm hoping for a bit of reassurance / inspiration as I'm starting to get a bit frustrated with my PPL training!
I've been taking lessons since March 2009. I've been doing circuits since July 2009, and I'm starting to wonder whether I'm ever going to move on. Unfortunately, as I imagine is the case for a lot of people, I can't afford to fly every day, and I'm generally managing two lessons a month, occasionally three. Over the winter I had a lot cancelled due to the weather, and so overall my circuits have been pretty sporadic.
I totted up the hours in my log book this evening, and of my 25 hours so far, 16 have been spent flying circuits without yet having soloed. It's not that I'm worried per se about being "slower than average" or anything like that, but to be quite honest I'm just getting a bit bored and frustrated of flying around the same bit of airspace every time. So I suppose I have two questions:
1. Is that actually a fairly normal number of hours to be spending in the circuit before reaching solo, and it just feels like a long time because it's been spread out over the course of a year? I'm generally a quick learner and I'm fairly well co-ordinated (my other hobby is kart racing) so I wouldn't generally expect to take longer than average, but I suppose you never know what you are and aren't going to be good at!
2. Is it actually feasible to learn and make progress in such a sporadic fashion or do you really need a more concentrated period of time, and am I therefore just wasting money by having one lesson and then two or three weeks off? If so I'd be inclined to take a break, save up a few grand and then do one or two lessons a week for a while.
I appreciate that the monetary situation is going to have to get better if I want to do this as a long-term activity - fortunately I'm in a career where my salary should go up by a decent amount in the next few years (I'm a recently-qualified solicitor), so it's more a question of what I should do at this point. If the answer is go gliding for three years and come back to engines, then fair enough.
Any wisdom much appreciated! I'm going to talk to my CFI about it this weekend, but I always think the more points of view you have the better
EDIT oh, and I fly at a small airfield so no time to speak of hanging about waiting for a slot - I usually manage 5 or 6 circuits for an hour of logbook time.
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What is your instructor saying?
If its because you are flying sporadically, book a block of sessions close together.
But we all have periods where progress is slow. Sometimes it might be worthwhile moving away from a task that has become boring or frustrating and have a few lessons doing something else.
If its because you are flying sporadically, book a block of sessions close together.
But we all have periods where progress is slow. Sometimes it might be worthwhile moving away from a task that has become boring or frustrating and have a few lessons doing something else.
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Hi Juno
My recollections of my PPL training were similar to yours .... although I think I was doing a solo at around the point you are at now, possibly slightly sooner.
I was also only flying every other week or so, even took an 18 month break in the middle due to money constraints. It is perfectly possible with average ability to progress at this pace.
As soon as you get the solo out of the way, then it all starts to get more interesting with the Navexs etc, so I would suggest that when you speak to the CFI you find out how they think you are progressing towards the first solo. Maybe suggest that they tailor a few lessons with a small navex to another airfield to do circuits there or something similar ... to keep the interest up.
Also type of aircraft flown can be important. I seem to recall I could nail a low wing aircraft in the circuit really easily but put me in a cessna and I was all over the place, maybe even worth trying an hour in a different aircraft if for nothing else other than a change. This might be frowned upon as not the quickest way to achieve a solo, but if it gets you past the boredom bit to the interesting stuff then a couple of extra hours on the course wont be wasted.
Keep it up .... nipping over to Le Touquet for lunch makes it worthwhile ;-)
My recollections of my PPL training were similar to yours .... although I think I was doing a solo at around the point you are at now, possibly slightly sooner.
I was also only flying every other week or so, even took an 18 month break in the middle due to money constraints. It is perfectly possible with average ability to progress at this pace.
As soon as you get the solo out of the way, then it all starts to get more interesting with the Navexs etc, so I would suggest that when you speak to the CFI you find out how they think you are progressing towards the first solo. Maybe suggest that they tailor a few lessons with a small navex to another airfield to do circuits there or something similar ... to keep the interest up.
Also type of aircraft flown can be important. I seem to recall I could nail a low wing aircraft in the circuit really easily but put me in a cessna and I was all over the place, maybe even worth trying an hour in a different aircraft if for nothing else other than a change. This might be frowned upon as not the quickest way to achieve a solo, but if it gets you past the boredom bit to the interesting stuff then a couple of extra hours on the course wont be wasted.
Keep it up .... nipping over to Le Touquet for lunch makes it worthwhile ;-)
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The worrying thing about your post...as implied by Robin...is the absence of comment on your instructor's view.
Your sporadic training may be a factor, but many people do the same and make somewhat quicker progress. If you are stuck or struggling on a particular aspect of your flying, or on several aspects, your instructor would surely have let you know what the problems are, and given you strategy's for overcoming them.
If this hasn't happened (which I would find hard to believe) your alarm bells (re the quality of training you are getting) should be clanging loudly.
I am NOT implying this is case; I'm merely suggesting, your debriefs should be covering your problems and adressing possible solutions. I would have thought a short burst of concentrated training would have been a reasonable starting point?????
Your sporadic training may be a factor, but many people do the same and make somewhat quicker progress. If you are stuck or struggling on a particular aspect of your flying, or on several aspects, your instructor would surely have let you know what the problems are, and given you strategy's for overcoming them.
If this hasn't happened (which I would find hard to believe) your alarm bells (re the quality of training you are getting) should be clanging loudly.
I am NOT implying this is case; I'm merely suggesting, your debriefs should be covering your problems and adressing possible solutions. I would have thought a short burst of concentrated training would have been a reasonable starting point?????
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16 hours in the circuit!!!
Go and find a instructor thats gets as bored as I do in the circuit.
then go out of the circuit and recap all the basic exercises.
Do loades of circuits at altitude aiming for a field practising the check s and configuration changes etc. Then go back to have a crack at landing the thing.
I would suggest a change of instructor is in order though.
Go and find a instructor thats gets as bored as I do in the circuit.
then go out of the circuit and recap all the basic exercises.
Do loades of circuits at altitude aiming for a field practising the check s and configuration changes etc. Then go back to have a crack at landing the thing.
I would suggest a change of instructor is in order though.
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1. I think anyone is going to do "better" by having the lessons closer together. Now I know you said you can afford on average around three a month. If possible see if you can perhaps book a morning and afternoon slot one day and a third slot within a day or two of the first two,
2. Circuits get boring, and learning should be fun, particularly if you are taking your time. Tell your instructor you are getting bored and ask if you can cover some of the other aerial work away from the circuit even if this means your PPL takes a few hours longer. In fact you might find this helps you with your circuits,
3. Beg, borrow or steal some P2 trips with qualified club members - you will be amazed how much help flying with others can be in helping you get your own circuits together. Good landings derive from seeing the "right" approach perspective time after time. Ideally fly with another club member who rents or owns the same or a similiar aircraft to that in which you are training,
4. Book one lesson on a day you happen to know your instructor is away or booked with someone else. Just sometimes the chemistry between you and your instructor is wrong. You might find you get on better with a different instructor and make better progress. After all you have got nothing to lose.
2. Circuits get boring, and learning should be fun, particularly if you are taking your time. Tell your instructor you are getting bored and ask if you can cover some of the other aerial work away from the circuit even if this means your PPL takes a few hours longer. In fact you might find this helps you with your circuits,
3. Beg, borrow or steal some P2 trips with qualified club members - you will be amazed how much help flying with others can be in helping you get your own circuits together. Good landings derive from seeing the "right" approach perspective time after time. Ideally fly with another club member who rents or owns the same or a similiar aircraft to that in which you are training,
4. Book one lesson on a day you happen to know your instructor is away or booked with someone else. Just sometimes the chemistry between you and your instructor is wrong. You might find you get on better with a different instructor and make better progress. After all you have got nothing to lose.
I'm afraid I can't agree with point 3: I did take a couple of trips as P2 but, even though they were fun in their own way, they added little to my learning as I was "on the wrong side" i.e. in the right-hand seat which completely alienated me from learning anything.
Point 1 I can certainly confirm: we all have our limitations, financial not the least, but whatever lessons you can afford will be more effective if they are close in time. Better to have three in a weekend, and then nothing for a month. However, to get 3 lessons flown, one would have to book 5 or 6 most times of the year, given the unpredictable wx.
Most of all I wish to confirm point 4: my final "aha-erlebnis" come from an instructor I had never flown with before, and he only said what others had said before him, but he said it in the right words and at the right time. Sheer luck, I reckon, but the trick was done and that's what counts.
Point 1 I can certainly confirm: we all have our limitations, financial not the least, but whatever lessons you can afford will be more effective if they are close in time. Better to have three in a weekend, and then nothing for a month. However, to get 3 lessons flown, one would have to book 5 or 6 most times of the year, given the unpredictable wx.
Most of all I wish to confirm point 4: my final "aha-erlebnis" come from an instructor I had never flown with before, and he only said what others had said before him, but he said it in the right words and at the right time. Sheer luck, I reckon, but the trick was done and that's what counts.
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Jan - yes I would agree point 3 is controversial - and I did wonder whether to include it. If you have piloted from the right seat you will know that the perspective looks a little different - the first few hours quite a bit different. However you really start to notice the difference half way down final AND you notice it far more if you are flying the aircraft rather than watching someone else flying. (or at least that is my experience). For that reason I included 3 because I have found, and found myself, that it was very helpful. Ask a pilot who has never flown an aircraft right seat before to fly a circuit, approach and landing and 9/10 will fly the circuit and top of the approach fine - it only then starts to get a little ragged in my experience.
It may well not suite everyone, and, for those who have tried, you might have found it was unhelpful.
I would be interested to read others thoughts who have tried.
It may well not suite everyone, and, for those who have tried, you might have found it was unhelpful.
I would be interested to read others thoughts who have tried.
The perspective difference was the easiest, and the least unexpected. What I remember putting me off balance was that the flaps handle, trim wheel, throttle, &C were suddenly under my "other" hand; i.e. I had to search for them and as a beginner one doesn't have time for that in the circuit; at least this beginner didn't.
But I am as curious as you to read other experiences.
But I am as curious as you to read other experiences.
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Long ago I had the same problem - endless hours in the circuit till I thought that I was just no good at flying. I went to the CFI and said that I thought I'd give up and he said "no, book a double slot next week and I'm sure you'll manage it". And lo - I went solo, and it was a complete anti-climax, because I was no better that week than I had been for the last few (I didn't teach flying but I did teach skills with quite similar needs)
It took a while to work out that the school hadn't been entirely honest with me, but when I worked it out, I moved away smartly.
B
It took a while to work out that the school hadn't been entirely honest with me, but when I worked it out, I moved away smartly.
B
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Jan - I think we are at cross purposes. I didnt mean the poster should fly the circuit from the right seat, just spend some time watching another pilot doing the flying and enjoying hopefully a free right seat ride. Flying the aircraft from the right seat I agree will just confuse you and really would be a very poor idea.
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The other thing is not to worry about the idea of solo. Sometimes the pressure of the expectation of going solo degrades your performance.
Another factor is a lack of mental preparation prior to the flight. I like to get to the airfield a good hour before my flight so I can get into 'flight mode'. There is an interesting book called the 'Inner Game of Tennis' that explains a good technique of imagining the perfect outcome before you do it.
A while back I was converting a fairly experienced pilot to my aircraft and he had a lot of trouble relaxing. He would rush up to the airfield and start to get ready to fly before he'd calmed down from the journey.
Finally, I decided one day that the best thing was not to fly, but to go for a coffee, to talk through the flight in some detail before we went flying. He did some of the best landings I'd seen.
But don't pressure yourself
Another factor is a lack of mental preparation prior to the flight. I like to get to the airfield a good hour before my flight so I can get into 'flight mode'. There is an interesting book called the 'Inner Game of Tennis' that explains a good technique of imagining the perfect outcome before you do it.
A while back I was converting a fairly experienced pilot to my aircraft and he had a lot of trouble relaxing. He would rush up to the airfield and start to get ready to fly before he'd calmed down from the journey.
Finally, I decided one day that the best thing was not to fly, but to go for a coffee, to talk through the flight in some detail before we went flying. He did some of the best landings I'd seen.
But don't pressure yourself
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I appreciate that the monetary situation is going to have to get better if I want to do this as a long-term activity - fortunately I'm in a career where my salary should go up by a decent amount in the next few years (I'm a recently-qualified solicitor), so it's more a question of what I should do at this point. If the answer is go gliding for three years and come back to engines, then fair enough.
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Still, if your end goal is to go from (A) to (B) in a predictable way, stay with power flying :-)
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3. Beg, borrow or steal some P2 trips with qualified club members -
I suspect there is often an attitude of 'keep on trying it will come right one day'. That's not the same as being taught.
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Juno
I think you need to have an hour with a different instructor and ask them their opinion. I have heard of countless students who are being relieved of their cash when they are perfectly capable to fly solo.
If this isn't the case then you might just be crap, but I think that's highly unlikely as you kart race and you speak with confidence about what you are doing.
I think you need to have an hour with a different instructor and ask them their opinion. I have heard of countless students who are being relieved of their cash when they are perfectly capable to fly solo.
If this isn't the case then you might just be crap, but I think that's highly unlikely as you kart race and you speak with confidence about what you are doing.
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Thanks everyone for taking the time to reply - it's been really helpful to read through so many opinions
I deliberately didn't mention my instructor in the first post as I wanted to see if I was just making a mountain out of a molehill or if I was actually taking an unnecessarily long time in the circuit. What my instructor generally says is that it's not an unusual amount of time to take to get to solo, that I'm nearly there but that there's just a few things need tweaking, and that maybe in the next couple of lessons I can go up on my own. Except that he's been suggesting that I'm nearly ready for solo since around the start of the year... He's happy that the rest of my circuit is fine but isn't quite happy with my landings yet.
Much as I like my instructor and get on well with him, I am starting to wonder whether he's just a bit too laid back for me to make proper progress. What someone said above about 'keep on trying it will come right one day' does sound a bit familiar. He's also pretty young, and although I don't think for a minute that necessarily makes someone a bad instructor, I wonder whether it's partly down to having less experience that is making him more cautious about sending someone solo too early.
I know that having the big gaps between lessons is going to result a bit in having to spend the first part of each lesson remembering what I'm doing. To that end, my routine on a flying day is generally to sit down with my books for at least half an hour beforehand and review my notes from the previous lesson and the section in the Flying Training book that I'm on, and to mentally talk myself through a circuit and what happens at each point. I generally aim to get to the airfield about half an hour before my lesson, and have 15/20 minutes parked up on the road at the end of the runway with my airband receiver on to get my head back into the radio as well.
I'm going up with a different instructor on the next two weekends as mine is away, so I'm going to explain the situation to him and see what he thinks. I'm also in a position where I'm going to be moving house in the next six months and therefore also moving airfield. I'm suspecting that's going to involve a change in aircraft, so I think if I still don't feel like I'm getting anywhere over the next couple of lessons I might just take a break and have a fresh start somewhere else later in the year.
I deliberately didn't mention my instructor in the first post as I wanted to see if I was just making a mountain out of a molehill or if I was actually taking an unnecessarily long time in the circuit. What my instructor generally says is that it's not an unusual amount of time to take to get to solo, that I'm nearly there but that there's just a few things need tweaking, and that maybe in the next couple of lessons I can go up on my own. Except that he's been suggesting that I'm nearly ready for solo since around the start of the year... He's happy that the rest of my circuit is fine but isn't quite happy with my landings yet.
Much as I like my instructor and get on well with him, I am starting to wonder whether he's just a bit too laid back for me to make proper progress. What someone said above about 'keep on trying it will come right one day' does sound a bit familiar. He's also pretty young, and although I don't think for a minute that necessarily makes someone a bad instructor, I wonder whether it's partly down to having less experience that is making him more cautious about sending someone solo too early.
I know that having the big gaps between lessons is going to result a bit in having to spend the first part of each lesson remembering what I'm doing. To that end, my routine on a flying day is generally to sit down with my books for at least half an hour beforehand and review my notes from the previous lesson and the section in the Flying Training book that I'm on, and to mentally talk myself through a circuit and what happens at each point. I generally aim to get to the airfield about half an hour before my lesson, and have 15/20 minutes parked up on the road at the end of the runway with my airband receiver on to get my head back into the radio as well.
I'm going up with a different instructor on the next two weekends as mine is away, so I'm going to explain the situation to him and see what he thinks. I'm also in a position where I'm going to be moving house in the next six months and therefore also moving airfield. I'm suspecting that's going to involve a change in aircraft, so I think if I still don't feel like I'm getting anywhere over the next couple of lessons I might just take a break and have a fresh start somewhere else later in the year.