I see RedKnight took the hint and edited his message, getting better!

hi there..sorry I written my last blog under time pressure and it did sound a bit like i wasnt sure what I was talking about. --> but I dont appreciate any comments like I should not be flying. :mad:It is one thing to know about it and fly properly but another thing to try and write done exactly what you are going to do from memory and beeing unsure about one or two things. At least that what it is for me. :ugh:

1. yes passanger brief I do before actually starting the plane
2. the "emergency brief" is called captains brief in my checklist and is done before you call ready for departure is is more flight, emergency related and explains about the take off etc "joelgarabedian" had pretty much summed it up as I would do the brief

3. Stalls:
The manoeuvre simulating a stall whilst turning onto base/final --> i learned to never roll level before increasing airspeed to make sure the wings are unstalled and you do not risk spinning etc

4. What kind of other inflight emergency drills are common during the skill test apart from the engine failture, divertion?

In a single pilot aeroplane there is no point reciting to pax what you intend to do if the engine fails on take off. They probably will not understand what you are talking about and will start asking questions which will distract you from the task in hand.

The way to do it in SPA is, as you line up 'mentally rehearse what might happen and how you would react' that is all.

The same with 'in flight checks', check what your examiner would like you to do, but I would say the professional approach is to do them silently. Talking out loud about fuel, mixture, pumps etc, again can upset passengers if they are nervous.

My PPL instructor told me a passenger brief is essential, but the emergency brief is good practice for when undertaking the CPL skill test where it is required. I think if you do do an emergency brief it's important to be sure about what you are going to do and make it clear that it is YOU that will do it. "I will rotate at.... I will land back on the runway..." etc.

My skill test was just over 2 hours. It's best to exaggerate your checks to make sure the examiner knows you have done them. I'm not sure it should be considered more professional to do the checks silently, I think pilot activity where passengers don't know what you are doing is when they start to become apprehensive or afraid.

In terms of emergencies, you'll definitely get the PFL, and be prepared for an EFATO when climbing away straight after it. Otherwise you can look forward to it in the circuits.

I'd ask the examiner to do the circuits last. It'll save you some money if it all goes wrong in the Nav.

For the Nav section, plan well away from any potential problem sites as the first leg is all dead reckoning. When you get the diversion, plan it, fly it, and while enroute sort out a position fix. That way you'll have all the time you need to sort it out rather than it being dropped on you.

The CAA charged me an extra £4.25 to send my license and log book etc. back to me. It did take around 3 weeks (Arrived yesterday).

Hope this helps, good luck.

Remind your PPL instructor it is not just essential, it is written in law


The Commander of an aircraft is responsible for the safety and well- being of his passengers and the law requires a pre-flight safety briefing in any UK registered aircraft. This applies to ALL aircraft, including gliders, balloons, microlights and helicopters, as well as ‘conventional’ aeroplanes.

(Article 53 of the Air Navigation Order (ANO) 2005)

Beagle didnt say you shouldnt be flying he said you should not be flying solo and with what you posted he is correct-apart from your own safety, if you cannot recite the correct stall recovery on the ground you are hardly going to able to carry it out on a skill test. My advice to you is get some more dual training before ST and ensure you can recite the recovery correctly. You can also practice stall recovery sitting on the sofa, providing you can recite the actions!!!

Pull what, I don't think the emergency brief (after power checks) is part of the pre-flight safety brief for passengers. You have briefed your passengers already, before starting the engine and before walking out to the plane.

You don't get on an airliner and here the Captain tell you what speed he will rotate at, and what he will do if things go wrong. This is purely for the examiner. He needs to know that you know what you are doing, and flying the plane as you intend to (rotating at the airspeed you say will; climbing at the airspeed you say you will etc.)

Thank you, as an airline captain with over 30 years experince of heavy jet aircraft I can assure you are I am familar with both the passenger and commanders or take off briefings. You are confusing the two briefings, which have little to do with each other-one is a legal mandatory requirement on all aircraft, the other is good aviation practice but mandatory on public transport aircraft as it is a published requirement that is contained in the CAA approved operations manual which is required by all UK AOC holders

This is not a standard stall recovery

Appologies Pull what, I misread which briefing you were referring to, and misunderstood your point.

Out of interest, if you were flying a light aircraft, would you tell passengers what checks you were doing and say them aloud or just do them silently? I may have my first passengers next week!

Would the fact that it is written in law not be the reason why it is essential? Or did you assume because it was never specified in the post that the instructor knew it was a legal obligation therefore he/she was unaware of it or had forgotten it? :ugh:

With respect professional instruction is about clear unambiguous advice, it is essential to use common sense too but it is not a legal requirement!

Personally I can't see anything unclear or even 'ambiguous' in statement such as: "It is essential that you...", but hey that's just me.

No apology needed at all, in fact congratulations on finishing your training-they say you always remember your first solo but I cannot rember mine but I can vividly remember carrying my first passenger and it did not go very well. While I was in the local area the tower radio failed and the passenger became very concerned when she could hear that I was continually transmitting and not receiving any reply-she started to ask me continual questions which made it more difficult for me to decide what to do!

Before I get to your question I will tell you about two other pax I had on first light aircraft flights(theirs).


I took off with a guy who had his mother in the rear seat just after lift off she started screaming and I do meaning screaming- She was having some sort of fit and frightened to death, she continued screaming all the way around my short circuit until I touched down making it very difficult for me to fly the aircraft and talk to ATC.

Years later I was doing pleasure flying at a flying display and just after lift off a woman in the seat behind started screamimng in the same way. Of course the experienced Captain Pull What now knew exactly how to deal with the situation. I turned to her and said, " Dont worry, stay calm, I will make an immeadiate return to the airfield -she replied, (and I quote exactly) " Why, this is absolutely Fxxxing marvellous"!

No I would not personally shout out checks aloud to pax but if you feel happier doing this thats what you must do. You need to give the pax confidence, the use of a written check list helps with this, even if its only a token gesture.

If your passenger has never been in a light aircraft before be gentle but confident!

Oh and don't do what I did one day:

I was boarding the aircraft with the pax down the jetway after completing the walk around, a passenger said to me, "is it good flying conditions today captain i am a nervous flyer"? I replied, " its fantastic and dont worry I am feeling extremely lucky today"!

Nice post PW thank you for that and your advises. I think the moral of the story is then don't fly with women! :}

Ryan

hi so I took my last written exam with a pass and also finished my revision. So tomorrow is the big day. We did different landing configurations and emergency landings etc. This goes rather well. Just to be sure I will refresh the stalls now. So wish me all the best.

All the best!

Make sure you get plenty of sleep and arrive at the airport in plenty of time. This will get you off on a good footing and you wont be scrambling about looking for stuff. Get your route as soon as possible (if you havn't already been given it) and study it well for different landmarks on the way. The diversion will come on the second leg so take a look at likely places as you will have an allowance on your ETA of +/- 3 minutes.

EDIT: Might be a bit late now but I brought the POH of the aircraft home two days in advance of skills test and apart from the weight & balance and helping you with the general questions posed by the examiner it is actually a darn good read - a real page turner!! (Sorry if that sounds a bit sad but you will learn some stuff about your own plane that you never knew before every time you it; it shows how wet we really are behind the ears)

Keep it simple and keep it safe and I am sure you'll ace it so best of luck!! :ok:

Good luck tomorrow, I'll be watching the skies... Let us know how it goes

I PASSED, however i did do mistakes as well and thus booked myself in next week for some revision to be sure I iron the mistake out.

Now I have to get the RT license test done. Any idea how this is done and what to expect?

Congratulations and enjoy your new privilege of flying.

Note to self: Always carry a mallet in flight bag! :)

Congratulations Screetch!

The R/T test is fairly staight forward. Probably varies depending on where you do it. When I did mine, I was given the option to just do the test or have a practice first. The practice is a very good idea and it cost an extra £20. I recommend you do the practice first!

The test was around £50 and was basically sitting with a headset on with a make shift radio panel going through the r/t of a pre-determined flight while the examiner pretends to be ATC sitting in another room.

Mine was a AA5A flying from a radio only field, transitting a MATZ and then SVFR through a control zone, followed by a Mayday, and finally a Pan call.

I was actually more nervous doing the r/t then I was doing the flight test but that's probably just me!

They tell you straight away the result, and then (hopefully) fill out your license aplication form.

Well dome Screech--

You dont need a mallet-always ask your pax:

Have you flown in a light aircraft before?

hi no I havent. I have just been in my C152. I am considering a C172 difference training so I can take up a few of my friends. I am trying to get to fly a sportcruiser.

why do you ask about light aircraft. do you have one spare?

Congratulations Screetch! :D

Always ask you pax---Have you flown in a light aircraft before?

And make sure there are sick bags handy?

Incredibly valuable advice! I picked up a few before taking anyone for a flight after getting my PPL and tucked them into the back of my kneeboard. The first few people I took up were absolutely fine, and I almost forgot they were there.

Then, one afternoon, I took a friend up. It was CAVOK, the air was cool and the wind was light. We were about half an hour away from the field when I noticed he'd stopped talking. I looked across at him and saw that his skin had taken on a green hue and a rather disturbing clammy sheen. I asked him to move the headset microphone away from his mouth, and handed him a sick bag. I headed straight back to Shoreham, but by the time we got there he'd pretty much filled the bag. There was nothing else in the aircraft we could have used - that bag saved the day. ;)

I felt terrible after the flight - Talking about it afterwards, my friend said that the sickness had started when he looked behind at the runway on the climbout. He hoped it would just go away, so he didn't mention it, but I suspected that he'd thought he would spoil the fun by asking me to turn back. Of course I would have much rather have returned early with him having enjoyed the flight, than spent the last half of the flight feeling guilty I hadn't noticed my passenger wasn't feeling well earlier!

Joel.

Joel always carry a poly bag with no holes in too.

After a charter flight (2 local councillors to the IOM) the one got onto the wing (Aztec) with his half full sick bag and the bottom bust and it all went down his suit!

Remember if you get sick in the aircraft the school/club will expect you to clean up!

i get the feeling my flightbag is getting too small now, but a few sickbags is certainly a good idea. However handing them out before may just instigates that your PAX is in for a wild ride? :cool: Anyways it is good advise.

So i have completed all my paperwork and everything should be send off to the caa today. I think it takes 6 weeks? Gosh that is a long time. I booked myself in with an instructor next week and in two weeks time i will rent a plane as solo student for some circuits just to keep on top of it and do my 3 landings and takeoff before i can finally take my girlfriend up with me.

hopefully i can fly with lots of people from booker so i get the feel of different aircraft, other pilots and get to fly.

Out of curiosity - who here would issue a PAN PAN call in response to a passenger becoming sick?

Screetch - No need to hand them out before you start, just keep an eye on your passengers, and tell them to let you know as soon as they feel ill. Like you say, it's probably a bit unnerving climbing into a light aircraft for the first time and being handed a sick bag :)

RedKnight - It did cross my mind, especially once I got back to Shoreham and had to wait in the overhead whilst ATC helped another pilot who was unable to find the field despite being close enough to disrupt the circuit traffic. I decided that it wasn't actually a medical emergency, and so the situation didn't warrant a Pan Pan.

Joel.

If its air sick and barfing in a bag personally I wouldn't

Any hint of them passing out or becoming unresponsive to verbal instructions declare PAN or MAYDAY it doesn't really matter what you call the reponce will be exactly the same from the ATC.

Also if they start leaking bodly fluids apart from barfing again declare.

But have a think on your own work load. If they are causing you problems and degrading your ability to manage the flight safely call a pan for a barfing pax. Your not an instructor who can form a barf bag using a chart while flying the approach using the rudder pedals and holding some ones hair out of the puke while trying to flick away thier mike. ;)

Personally I wouldn't hand out barf bags at the start of the flight just have them under your knee board or in a door pocket within easy reach. If someone is in a mind they will feel sick a barf bag will reforce that feeling.

Skills Test July 2010
 

Hi,
In reply to everyones posts, ive just done my skills test and passed!!

Mine was :

couple of hours before given the route, planned it at home, looked at F214/215`s Metars and Tafs.

Turned up, went through the whole test with the CAA examiner who was spot on, great guy.

Gave me a weight balance sheet to complete and wanted to know if we would take off with runway avail.
Weight /Balance was out of the envelope, so I suggested adding some baggage, which put everything on track!

Went out checked the aircraft, and as I was finishing, asked me a few things about the aircraft, nothing major. Got in started to do the internal checks, asked me about how much fuel we had and what our endurance was.

Started up, did brake test, and checked DI worked. Start up checks, then we did a Short Take off.

Went off on first leg, made sure I climbed to cruise height at starting point rather than enroute, something which he liked.
Flew very well, and arrived at pin point and turning point give or take a minute.
Then on second leg, told me we`d be doing a VOR `location lost test` which went fine as I knew where I was.
Unplanned diversion, working out heading, time enroute, and ETA. Went fine too

Was told after that I had passed the Nav part.

Then flew to do PFL`s and Stalls. Messed up my base leg stall... tried to rotate before applying full power... Examiner then showed me how I should have done it, then did it fine after that.
PFL went well, he gave me plenty time for find a field I was going to `land` in. Due to location it was went down to about 700feet, all worked out well, as I was climbing away, pulled throttle off, sim engine failure on take off.

Came back into the circuit and after descending deadside, did flapless approach, then low level bad weather, both go arounds, when I was about 50feet off the ground, and finally, a short field landing!

Advice, speak your mind.. everything you think you are going to do say it!

Hope this helps

Al

PA28, Sherburn in Elmet up in sunny Yorkshire

Congratulations!

A couple of points though:

Examiners are not permitted to tell you whether you've passed an individual section until after the test. So although your Examiner was very kind to have done so, others are more likely to stick to the rules.....

The Examiner isn't permitted to do that - all he/she is permitted to do is to tell you to repeat the test item. Although a comment such as "Sorry, perhaps I didn't make myself clear. I would like you to show me safe recovery with minimum height loss from a stall in the approach configuration, recovering when I say the word 'Recover'" might give applicants a reminder clue or two.....

Anyway, well done - you passed! Enjoy!!

Cheers,

Maybe so, the weather wasnt that clever so was going to do it in two parts, so he said I had passed.

Not that bothered,maybe my wording as I would hate to get anyone into trouble!

Passed and tried my best to help people like I was unsure about what actually happens in plain language, as there seems a sense to over complicate things,

alm

Congrats Al, well done!

Thanks...RT practical booked, for next week due to work commitments, didnt realise it was a 2.5hr test!
Any points??

alm

I agree about not declaring a Pan, though if ATC are not too busy dealing with something else, I see no harm in a polite and professional mention that you're passenger is a bit airsick and that is why you are returning before planned. It makes people aware but also *may* just get you down a little bit quicker.

Just a thought :)


On the topic of RT, I presume it is the same one for all licenses, CPL / PPL, if so, the actual test shouldn't take 2.5 hours! I think mine last about 30 mins to an hour and is fairly straight forward if you are used to UK comms (which I wasn't - as I had flown only in the USA before that point, which is quite different!), so I did quite a lot of reading before hand.
I suggest looking at http://www.caa.co.uk/docs/33/Aviatio...917_LOCKED.pdf which is quite good as it also has playable audio built into it & the CAP: http://www.caa.co.uk/docs/33/CAP413.PDF

Thanks for that I`ll have a look !

Lets hope nope I presume the time I gave was the whole briefing/debriefing etc etc

alm

Yeh, you'll be briefed before hand on how the system works and then debrief afterwards on how you did and what you can do better.

WOW that was....interesting! Hope I never fly that route..

RT passed, and application posted off!!

3 weeks to wait ...........

Damn

Alm