Wonders very hard here.
 

Where did this person get a PPL.

Was this not covered in the navigation section of your PPL course?


1/60

Chilli....

Apologies. I have re-read 413 emergency procedures and accept that I was mistaken about the 7700 sqwauk being accepted practice when doubt exists over the safe outcome of the flight.

I had never considered being lost as an emergency, more as urgency. I do emphasise to my students that prevention is better than cure and the importance of communication / confession if things do go 'off-plan.'

The blur here lies in the definitions and to me, lost / uncertain is one and the same.

Got Lost Once
 

The instructor had me doing a whole bunch of airwork under the hood -- then told me it was time to head back home. Did not recognise anything; so, held heading for a minute, spotted a crescent shaped lake and there it was on the map.

In a glider, most of our navigation is from good lift to the next promising cloud in the general direction of where we'd like to go.

Once decent lift is found and circling in it, there's lots of time to find oneself on the map;)

If you have the gas, you can just circle while looking about.

Drawing a line on the map and staying on it reduces the problem to recognising the often cunningly concealed airport:\

Two sets all.

Chili Monster to serve.

FOK :)

PS: Only joking - some interesting comments gents :ok:

Lost vs uncertain of position?
 

Not as a comment on phraseology, however:

On one of my pre-ppl qualifying solo navs the C172 I was flying decided to start indicating empty in one wing - that rather distracted me for a few minutes. Without concerning that, I decided it was the gauge and plodded on. Some while later I started getting concerned that a few landmarks weren't popping up as expected. Hmm. Then it dawned. In the faff over the fuel I'd only gone and forgotten about the DI, and FREDA checks. We were about 20degrees off the compass.

When, for how long? Line on map from last known position (turnpoint) - worst case a couple of miles from a parallel airspace step, heading roughly SE. Dropped below that, just to be on the safe side. In my case, given the airspace, my (very approximate) location, and prospects, I decided to head due south towards the coast which was at max 30nm away, towards an area I knew well, and away from the airspace. Worst case, get to the coast and turn left.

Maybe 10 minutes later I could pick up enough landmarks to be really positive about my location, drew a line and got back with the program.

So, was I lost? Not really.. I had a fair idea, though pretty rough. Unsure of position? Damn straight!

And, for the record, not a by the book solution either.

I became uncertain of position on the final leg of my QXC, flying from Goodwood to Biggin Hill. I'd planned a route up to Guildford (a large town with a tall church and spire) then a right turn and track in to Biggin. I remember passing Dunsfold on my right and noticing that "the large town with the spire" that I wanted to get to was not on the heading that I had on my plog. So I turned to aim for that instead, away from my plogged heading. A few minutes later on reaching the end of the leg I had a couple of attempts at finding my three identifying features and still only had the spire. I realised I was not where I was supposed to be, and that the M25 and thus Heathrow was uncomfortably close.

Fortunately I had Farnborough on frequency as I'd called up for traffic information so I spoke to the nice lady and said I was uncertain of position. She said did I know Ascot I said no. She said did I know Kenly gliding site I said yes, so she gave me a heading to steer to get to Kenly.

Panic over, job done, home in time for tea. :)

No doubt if I had have actually been in danger of straying in to CAS she would probably have spoken to me first!

The problem with getting lost and then finding the landmarks you were looking for is that you may have found a second similar looking set of landmarks.

THAT is the danger in dead reckoning. If you do make a big clanger (like totally forgetting to start the stopwatch and not realising until 10-20 mins later, or flying 080 instead of 180) then there is a high probability of finding a false positive on the ground.

The key in this is to pick waypoints which look as bizzare/unusual (in their area) as possible, so the risk of the above mistake is minimised, but it is still easily done especially when flying over feature-rich terrain.

The wonderful thing about radio navigation (GPS, VOR/DME etc) is that you get a continuous guidance along your track, so if you get distracted for 5 mins, nothing major is going to happen.

To get anything like an equivalent continuous guidance using dear reckoning, you need to be constantly matching the map to the terrain below but this is not always possible, due to occassional lack of clear features.

Ah, yes, and that's another one I've learned.. it's nothing short of amazing how accurate time and distance is if you stick to it... I've not been right once when I've obeyed the inclination to head off over there a bit, and I've not yet missed when I've followed (or been smacked on the head and told to follow) the plog heading.

Well, appart from the time I got the deviation the wrong way round, but that was early on.... and the instructor sat next to me was having a good giggle :ugh:

Edit: Just to pick up IO540's comments too:

100% agree about the difficulty of finding one's self from absolutely lost. That's where the various map techniques attempt to cut down the area you're considering, and you'd be absolutely bonkers not to use any technology available.
It's also very worth pointing out that it's important to figure out what you did wrong, rather than immediately start to correct. - e.g. note you've been flying 45deg off heading for 10 minutes - to give you a probable position, not turn 45deg the other side and hope.

I always use 'wallclock' time, avoids any stopwatch snafu scenarios, write up the time at the waypoint, add numbers to get the time at the next.

I also tend to draw up a mud map, or script with things to check along the way - expect to cross a road here, lake there, change to a different frequency here sort of thing, rather than make it a 'fly 30 minutes and hope' exercise. That provides early indications and reduces the risk of false positives.

At the risk of drifting the thread into a fairly common holy war, I'm not intrinsically against GPS, but a large proportion of the a/c I rent flat don't have one. Then you can also get the scenario of last week when I thought "ah, that one's TV guided, I'm in a rush, I'll use the GPS to help me round the airspace steps" Got airborne then realised the data card had walked = no airspace, no airfield waypoings, no significant data on the moving map. So back to track crawling and being very conservative. Lesson learned. For the return I plotted an inbound track to an NDB and used the VOR to mark off each of the airspace steps.... then got a direct to @6500 clearance anyway. Much smoother above the convection layer :)

Easiest way just land in a farmers field walk to the Farmhouse and ask where you are.
Once he has put you right jump back in, takeoff and away you go....simple :)

Pace

But make sure you are insured for take off from an unlicensed airfield! Also if you are a student operating under the supervision of a flight instructor the authorisation ceases once you have landed. You would need to contact your FTO/instructor for recovery and would not be authorised to take off.

The other point worth mentioning is why pilots get lost. Ok it can happen to anyone but thorough pre flight planning and good training will go a long way to avoid this happening. Before you use GPS (or any other radio aid come to that) you need to understand the basics of pilot navigation.

That said if you really are lost then in the congested airspace of Europe you need to talk on the radio asap!

Can't speak for everyone, but as for me, I use the radio. I tune it in and see what language the local pilots are speaking, then I take it from there with my knowledge of European geography :ok:

Seriously, apart from what has been said about GPS/navaids in general, get used to having someone on the radio all the time (RIS/FIS/etc). Then if you're lost, they'll tell you :)

121.5 and squawk 0030 (FIR lost) - this will set off the same alarm in D&D that a 7700 will. D&D controllers will treat your "lost" or "unsure of position" as a Pan.

Never heard of that. Is this UK or ICAO or military standard? Do you have a reference?

Dead Reck
 

Spot on there, its never failed me! There is no fun in using a GPS. I find that prep on the ground pays divedends. When I was training for PPL, I used Google Earth to fly the route beforehand - I found it to be very useful. When I shut down the instructor said well done, good flight. Happy days :ok:

Likewise I have never heard of squawking 0030?

Squawk 0030 is not a Special Purpose Code, nor a Conspicuity Code, and should NOT be selected unless instructed to do so by ATC.

LH2
 

A FIS will not tell you if you are lost. Many a pilot has infringed with that philosophy. you should be careful writing stuff like that on a public forum if you do not have a good understanding of what you are saying.

If you squawk 0030 (which means FIR Lost) D&D will know immediately what your problem is (unlike 7700) and where you are before you even speak to them on 121.5. Once they've "got hold of you" you'll be instructed to select 0031 (FIR Found) or a discrete D&D squawk.
0030 is in the SSR Code Allocation Plan.

Oh yes, they will.

UK version: As you're passing through your busy airport's of choice controlled airspace, your squawk will tell the local controller who you're on the radio with, as a result of which your friendly FIS controller will make you aware of the fact that you might not be exactly where you thought you were. Of course first you will have gone through a bit of airspace where you were perhaps not entirely welcome, but that's not the point of this discussion :p

Elsewhere, a FIS is for all purposes what the UK for some reason calls an RAS, and they'll bark instructions at you as needed to keep everyone happy.

I do agree with that, but more than what's being written, in my opinion the onus is on the reader to critically analyse any information he might get from here. You get what you pay for and all that.

A FIS implies a non-radar service. I know London INFO assigns a generic squawk (1177 wasn't it?) to all aircraft under their control, but that's not implicit in a FIS and also doesn't mean automatically that London has access to radar images. Do all other FIRs in the UK (Scottish for instance) have the same policy BTW?

In any case, the only thing another controller sees is a 1177 squawk entering their airspace. They need to inform London, and London then needs to figure out, from their flight strips, which aircraft it might be. Before the proper aircraft is found (squawk ident and so forth) might take several minutes, particularly if there are multiple likely candidates.

But in any case if you're being given a FIS, the controller has no way of knowing directly that you're about to enter controlled airspace. They need to be informed by someone else. Unless of course if the controller secretly has radar and performs a RIS-like service, while you asked for a FIS.

That still requires radar coverage. Have to admit that that's pretty good in Europe, but not a guarantee. If you want such a guarantee, ask for a RIS or equivalent. No radar coverage, no RIS but FIS only. Simple.

Careful with the terminology....

In the UK a FIS (FLIGHT INFORMATION SERVICE) can come from anyone qualified to provide one and that CAN BE a non-radar/procedural service.

I can get a FIS from Wycombe Tower and Cranfield - but they don't have radar. No radar, no sqwauk - therefore primary contact or 7000 on every radar screen around.

A RADAR INFORMATION or a RADAR ADVISORY must be provided by a radar-unit.