Tiredness
 

I'm interested, and somewhat relieved to find that some of you "youngsters" also feel knackered after being airborne for a couple of hours. I assumed it was my advanced years that made me feel so tired straight afterwards.

I can drive on busy roads/motorways for hundreds of miles, and for several hours at a time without feeling really tired. You might think that driving at motorway speeds, on roads as crowded as they are today might be just as tiring as flying, but it seems that being "up there" brings stresses over and above those that are found "down here", even though to a large extent, they are not prominent at the time.

God knows what state I'm going to be in after the GFT!!!

I would use the word 'drained' rather than tired or worn out. I think being excited takes over and counteracts it. When I finished my QXC, i didn't feel tired until I got home, and even then, it wasn't that bad. I have been more tired, for instance when I done my first dual nav - it was so bad, I was just knackered. Stress has a lot to do with it I think, so the more stressful a flight, the more tired you will be.

That's just me anyway :=

Flying is pretty exhausting - so much to do, such a lot to think about. It does get easier the longer you fly, as you get used to it and it becomes more natural. In my albeit limited experience, it never becomes as easy as driving, but that could be because I drive nearly every day, but few of us fly that often. So we're always rusty to a certain extent, and usually stretched in a way we're not when we're driving.

That's how I see it, anyway.

Also, with the driving, I tend to go into autopilot mode - for example, when travelling on the motorway, I wont remember half of it when I reach the end, I just drive. I don't even have to think about driving now, I can just do it!

Different to flying, as I can remember every bit of my QXC! I will try and write up a diary entry next time I take a journey on the motorway :zzz:

C F : it will be the best 2+ hrs of your life, go for it and as for the age bit I am 25+24 years of experience and managed so dont let that put you off !!!

It is very tiring, I recall my QCC, Bpool-Hawarden-Wolverhampton-Blackpool , instructor out and then Bpool-Wolverhampton-Hawarden-bpool , knackered , I nearly crawled home, i think the more hours you have the less tired you feel as some of the stress is taken out of it. Bob 28

Bob - that is an almighty QXC ! I bet you were ruined after that one! :sad:

GonTak - you are Sir, but a mere spring chicken!! I have 25 years plus 37 years of experience.

Bob Stinger - Blimey, no wonder you were wiped out!!

Bob Stinger (2)

I have been told by the school, that on QXC, I have to land at two airports, one of which (Cambridge) has to be one I\'ve never been to before. I notice you did a sort of dummy run on yours with the instructor. Various schools do seem to interpret the syllabus in different ways.

I still think that was a marathon day you had - one run will be enough for me I think. I\'ve now run out of solo landaway currency \'cos the weather\'s had me grounded for over three weeks, so have to do a a local landaway with the instructor before I can do the QXC!! It\'s bloomin\' frustrating!!

CF

Vaguely remember something like this from a psyc course I did last session at uni - 'conscious' vs 'unconscious' processing. You can do something automatically (driving, serving customers at the bookshop I work at etc etc) fine while evrything works, but as soon as something happens that distracts your concentration you tend to struggle to remember what bit you were up to... soon as you have to 'think about it' again!

Flying is not at that automatic stage for me yet!

C F : Sir ,with age comes experience......

The older you are the more experience you gain,question is do you learn from it ? (why on earth learn to fly????)

Here in the frozen north QXC consists of trip to Carlisle ( EGNC )
via west coast for milage - Tesside (EGNV ) return Newcastle (EGNT ) NCL >CAR>TEES>NCL. So you get to mix it with the big boys twice in one day,all good fun. Glenrothes/Fife is an eye opener aswell.

Anybody still get a bit nervous about flying before you get in the seat even after getting a few hours under the belt ??

Safe flying/happy lessons all....

How automatic does it get?

I'd sort-of hoped that bits of it would eventually get automatic ... like, for example, straight-and-level would be a nice start, so that I could for example decide I wanted to fly at 2100' and simply do so without any conscious effort to hold the level. Hasn't happened yet.

Gon tek ,I am always nervous right up to the point when i get to the aircraft then im fine, dont know if thats a bad thing or not?

I'm always nervous until I get in and start the checks.

Is it good? It's certainly better than getting complacent or over-confident. Nowadays I just kind of accept it and see it as my mind doing its usual routine tricks. Same as when it tells me, every morning, that getting up is awful and terrible and I really need another three hours sleep. I get up, and feel fine. Similarly, I get in the aircraft, and remember how to fly. So I let this silly mind run on, and don't listen.

I think this is one of the most difficult parts of flying - what seems so simple, is actually an acquired skill.

I won't use the word stress. Stress to me is something like finding out one of your degree module results, and realising you've missed the target by 5% - then worrying what to do next.

I've always said this kind of thing throughout my whole diary:

"It was a good scary feeling"
"I was nervous but in an excited way"
....etc

It's hard to explain, but if I was worried before I went flying, I wouldn't do it (OK I would start to worry when things go wrong). With me, the QXC wasn't a worry (OK weeks before the flight, I would nit-pick about things and worry about things going wrong) but it was more like a massive up-hill climb (not struggle) and I thought that if other people have done it, then I can do it too - I just looked ahead and then worried when the wheels left the ground :D

Nerves are always of the plenty when I go flying, before, during and even when I am driving home - but this I think is where the feeling, also known as "buzz" comes from, like that one we all get every time we fly ;)

Safe flying all :ok:

I DON'T BELIEVE IT!!
 

Lovely day today - pity I was one day out of currency to do my last solo land away before QXC, but nevertheless set out to regain currency with a local landaway with my instructor. One mile from East Midlands Airport, I got a phone call to say the Warrior had gone tech. and the other one was in for service.

Will I ever fly again???

Personally, the nervous bit I think is good, as complacency is not.

Reading the post's it looks like all PPL's have more or less the same experiences pre/post licence grant. Why do we do it ?

Just for a bit of fun boys and girls try this one (dual ) Climb and descend/turn without using yoke - Power and rudder only.


Straight and level....... mmmmmm only cracked that one on GFT
Did navex at 2700 ft give or take 10, examiner asked why in debrief. Answer :- It was flying ok why adjust it..... he never replied.

Fly safe.

Ahh that's a familiar feeling.
Think I've said it before (maybe even multiple times): you need (while you';re training towards your PPL) three things - good weather, an instructor and an aeroplane. In my experience it's been 'pick any two of three'!!

Finally...
 

Well, the weather was very dodgy, but I finally got into the air today!

Checked the METAR and TAF, both showed good weather, so I set off. About half way to the airport I rang to check, and it was all fine so I carried on...

Got the the club, had a quick chat with the instructor about emergency situations and went to check the 'plane out.

Everything was fine, short field TO and we were flying. It became apparent very quickly that the weather wasn't going to be kind. The turbulance was the worst I've experienced since learning to fly, and we decided I wasn't going solo. Fair enough, so we came in for a touch and go, and off we went again. This time we decided to make it a full stop - the wind was very gusty and turbulance not getting any better.

After driving the 30 miles or so, I wasn't keen to go back after 20 minutes in the air, so we thought we'd go and do some navigation. So off we go again - TO was fine, standard VFR to the North, but the weather was still pretty poor.

We were going to do some more instrument flying, but elected not to with the tubulance. So it was a basic navigation lesson in the end - FI told me where to go, and I had to get there.

To be honest - simple enough. Vis was fairly good so had no real problems. Had to alter course due to the increasingly strong wind but managed to find my points.

The cloud was lower than that indicated as well so we nearly got caught a few times. Some quick altitude alteration needed, but nothing too bad!

When requesting rejoin I managed to completely balls up my RT, but never mind, we all make mistakes! And then I followed a 757 in for a rather tidy landing!

Overall a nice lesson, flighting with the controls for the majority, but I enjoyed it!

Next booking is for monday, will hopefully be doing an hour of solo circuits. If the weather allows! Then that'll be it on circuits for now!

That's more like it...
 

Hello again!

Turned up at the club today to be told to get lost for an hour, which was nice So off I went, a happy lad, only to end up waiting for 25 minutes to TO!!! That's the problem with an international airport, can be left waiting for a long time.

But I eventually got going, with a nice short field take off. As I climbed into circuit height and got onto the crosswind leg, I noticed a 152 (also in the circuit) taking it very, very wide (not wanting to start a debate on the size of circuits, but it really was massive!)

So I take a wider circuit too, not wanting to cause any mayhem. About a second after I do that, ATC ask me to "keep the circuit wide" - obviously spotting the problem. I called to say I was ready for downwind, and was asked to orbit before turning.

All fair enough, and I go downwind, cleared to finals and cleared to land. 2 stages of flaps and a (fairly) gentle landing.

I go around again, this time with an entirely uneventful circuit and landing with full flap.

The next circuit I end up orbiting for a long time. When I get cleared to land I get a rather frantic call from ATC asking me to go around. Didn't know what that was for - it seemed she hadn't left enough room between me and the easyjet behind me - didn't fancy having that ramming into me!

Anyway I went around for another circuit or two. Which were fine - a glide approach and flapless. On what I elected to be my last T + G I had to go around again. Not ATC's fault, but the op's 4X4 was at the other end of the runway, and I didn't think it would be off before I landed. So around I went. This time a right hand circuit and a full stop. Again, rather uneventful. 2 stages of flaps and I'm down.

Overall a bloody good lesson. Knackered, to say the least. That's the most mentally draining flight I've had before - but enjoyed it immensely.

The weather was beautifyl - 40km vis, no cloud, and still. Couldn't ask for any better!

I was up for 1H15 mins, and that's solo consolidation over! I've been given a route to sort out for saturday. Have to turn up an hour early and do everything.

This feels like a big milestone, looking forward to navigation.

Anyway cheers all and sorry to bore you!

Really enjoyed todays flight - makes you realise why you're doing it!

JWF. Sounds like you had an interesting day!! The weather was not too bad at E.Mids today, but not good enough for my final solo landaway (which should have happened after I had got my currency back this morning with a landaway at Leicester with the instructor). The cloud base was scattered at around 1800, and we ended up going over the top at times. An absolute "no no" of course, except with the boss sat with me.

Anyway, at least I'm current for landaway again now, and enjoyed the company of a different instructor than normal. Hopefully I'll get the final landaway, and the QXC in before Xmas, but somehow ,this time of the year I doubt it!!

Cheers all, and if I don't post again before, have a great Xmas and successful New Year. PPL's for one and all, I trust in 2006!!

MAZBASH FLY-IN
 

Tonight I am hoping to decide on the location for the fly-in.

I need some ideas today if possible - some things to consider:

> Needs to be central England
> A nice friendly place, that would welcome a fly-in
> Somewhere not REALLY close to controlled airspace (I will explain at a later date!)

If anyone else has any preferences, or airfield ideas, please post them ASAP. Once we have a location, I'll stick it, and then as I get nearer to completing the PPL, I can get down to the nitty gritty of organising it. If anyone has experience of this, then do drop me a line :=

Thanks all - much appreciated,

Lee :ok:

John/Cheq - sorry to hi-jack your posts. John, your not boring us! Turn up 2 hours early, not just one! Well done both of you, and hope you manage to get your QXC Cheq before Christmas.

Tatenhill? Very central in the UK, and not that close to East Mids airspace. And friendly. And you can book trial helicopter lessons with me while you're there if you want. :ok: :)

I'd second Tatenhill. Accessible from most regions, easy to spot, easy circuit and approach. 700m of asphalt with lots of parking space. Friendly people.

Familiar to me as it is where I did my QXC.

Still nothing from the CAA... it's only been 3 weeks since I posted my application to them but it feels like forever. After having the past 18 months of weekends focussed around flying I'm getting withdrawal symptoms. At this rate I'll need a refresher course before going solo again!

Yeah I was thinking of Tatenhill - been there once before with Disco. I'll say it's the top of the list so far - any objections/recommendations, let us know :ok:

Data - hang on in there !;)

Keep at it C F you might get it sorted as a nice Xmas present




Best wishes All......

700m? - oo er missus, have to practice my short field landings ...:) :) :)

Seriously though, my book also shows a 900m runway - don't forget that once you've got your PPL you're no longer restricted to licensed runways :D

Tatenhill looks do-able for me, just pop up inbetween birmingham and EMA and Bobs your mothers brother.

Quick update for everyone on what I'm up to, for those that don't know.

After my PPL I haven't actually done that much flying, straight after my PPL I moved down to Hampshire from Edinburgh so had to get checked out at a new airfield down south (Blackbushe) Did a cpl of flights here, mainly taking gf and mates up, nothing fancy. I did plan a flight to the IoW but the weather didn't let that happen.

Since beginning of september I have been at OAT working my way towards my fATPL, I've got my phase 1 exams on 9th Jan (theres so much to know!!!!) so have been really busy with learn things to do with planes, all very interesting stuff :ok: In January after my exams I'm going to be doing my night rating which I kind of looking forward too, but am also abit worried about flying at night in a SEP (not my idea of safe!!) Once all my exams are out the way in April I will be disappearing to the US for 5 months to do the VFR phase and get my CPL, then its back to the UK for the IR :E

If mazzys fly-in is on a weekend (I assume it will be!) then I maybe able to come, depends on work load etc, its not far from oxford so would be a nice day trip, plus being a student at OAT means that I get a discount on the PPL hire rate (warrior -161 for £95/hr! pretty good)

Glad to see so many of you working towards your PPLs and that you are find this diary useful, I've posted quite abit in it and it def helped me during my training (which I might add I started AFTER mazzy and finished way before, and am nearly halfway thro my commercial training!! come on mazzy, whats keeping you??? :p :p :p :D :ok: )

Hope to meet some of you at the Mazzy Post-PPL flyin ;)

Good to hear of your progress Blinkz.

Gertrude - on the subject of 'unlicensed' runways - what does this actually mean?

Hopefully someone will post a link to an arcane CAA document as I haven't found the definitive statement as yet.

Why, for instance, would Tatenhill have 08/26 as licenced, yet 04/22 as unlicenced? If they are both usable then I would expect them to be maintained to usable standards so it shouldn't be a cost issue.

I asked this specific question before my solo QXC to Tatenhill - I was concerned that if the winds weren't suitable for 08/26 then I would want to be able to land on 04/22. However I was told that a student couldn't land on an unlicensed runway but nothing further by way of explaination.

And here's a couple of photos for familiarisation, showing R26 when climbing away on a left hand departure. The parked aircraft, tower and hangar can be easily spotted to orient you with your Pooley's chart.

http://www.mydata.co.uk/photos/tat-dep-R26L.jpg

and
http://www.mydata.co.uk/photos/tat-dep-R26L-2.jpg

I have both these in much higher resolution if anyone would be interested.

Blinkz !! Welcome back old chum, you certainly did make a lot of posts, so it's about time you came back and told us what you are doing you lazy git !! :ok: Enough sending me abuse on MSN anyway :D

I can't see the pictures here at work Data, but thanks in advance.

The fly-in will be on a weekend, purely because I think most people will work weekdays. At the moment, I'm afraid I can't give a date, as I don't know when I will pass (but it will be soon, not long to go.....)

I look forward to meeting you all, and I hope as many of you can make it as possible.

Whirly - Check your PM's ;)

So, Tatenhill it is then..........

Cheers,

Lee :ok:

Yes, I did try reading up on this, but the only conclusion I could come to was "one that students can't use".

At an airfield with some licensed and some unlicensed runways, clearly the airfield must have the facilities required for the licensed runway. The unlicensed one might not have been checked against various standards like obstructions in the climb-out or whatever, but one can't really imagine crashing and burning on the unlicensed runway and the airfield managers deciding not to send out the fire engine because it's only legally required for the licensed runway!!

That's always been my definition. :)

Unlicensed = Not For Students

Sounds good enough as a rule of thumb for me.

With regards the higer resolution pictures for Tatenhill I've taken the liberty to include another snippet below:

http://www.mydata.co.uk/photos/tat-26-zoom.jpg

For the observant you will see that on R26 after the fifth centre line mark there are a cones to the right of the runway. You should have landed and be slow enough to vacate the runway at this point. Just a pointer for those who land and then get instructions from the tower to this effect.

Of course - they may or may not be there on the day, but I thought it would be useful to post here in readiness.

Last time I was there (the only time), there was a landing competition, which involved trying to land before some thin yellow markers either side of the runway - it was tough, but do-able. :8

Maybe the same thing could be organised for the Fly-in? Could be good fun...

Nice pics by the way MyData :ok:

Yes, the competition for the day could be "Who can land in their parking space" :E

A lovely day today,brilliant weather with a dusting of snow on the ground,the effect of sun and snow was absolutely stunning.
Did another solo nav ,this time from Old Buckenham to Kings Lynn,then Sherringham on the coast and back home via Norwich,also did my first MATZ penetration.
I've been told to get the remaining exams out of the way ASAP because I'm nearly there,so that's a great Christmas present.
Although my real present from Mrs N is a of Pilot 17-79 DNC-XL headset, I've been using a borrowed set for several months and can't fault them.
Wishing all Forumistes a very happy holiday and a superb 2006!
Lister:D :D :D

LN - sounds like you're doing very well indeed. So a big congratulations!

You seem to have steamed through the PPL. There seems to be a few contenders for the first "class of 2006" now!

I managed to get another flight in yesterday. Was a little touch and go as to whether it would happen - late night on friday. Early morning on saturday! But I felt ok in the morning, so popped along to the aero club for a flight at 1100.

Got there at around 1000, and started planning my route. A simple, first official navigation exercise (even though I'd already done some navigation when weather wasn't good enough.

So I got the route planned fine. My instructor told me about QDM and QDR - nice to know there can be some help! Once I'd frozen my hands in the pre-flight checks we were ready for the off.

There was a 15 knot crosswind - never had one that strong - but I got on with it, and my TO was fairly good!

So, we turned onto the first heading, and cleared the zone. We were asked to contact radar (another first!). As soon as we turned onto the frequency we heard a little banter between the controller and a pilot - taking the mick out of Sunderland's football ground I believe!

Fairly quickly it became apparent that we were off track. Either the wind wasn't as shown, or there was an error in my calculations (the cheek of my instructor to say that! :} ) We found out what the problem was once we'd landed.

Because we both knew where we were, there was no problems though. The second leg was spot on, as was the third.

On the way back down to newcastle, we needed to get to the east of the VRP, so my calculations no longer mattered! We asked radar for clearance to enter the zone and rejoin instructions which we were duely given.

Not until we were on right base did I remember we had a rather strong crosswind to deal with (or more to the point - I did!). I massively overshot right base, but managed to get back on track. The next bit's a bit of a blur really, it all just happened. It seems I completed a good wing-down method of landing. And to be quite honest I was very chuffed. My instructor said it was a good landing. So I was very happy (only my second X-wind landing, 1st without any verbal input).

So now the real test - did I make a mistake with the whizzy wheel, or was the wind different to that predicted?

He used the information I had, took my whizz wheel, and after around 2 minutes came with his answers. Exactly the same as mine. :hmm: He apologised for doubting my abilities, but said he was happy that I was right! (Obviously couldn't be bothered to go through the wind calculations with me again!).

So, as always, a very enjoyable lesson.

Another dual nax ex next, and then I do them solo! Can't wait!

Edited to say: I also had the pleasure of meeting fellow forumite happyeater (Paul). Although, I have to admit I wouldn't have known who it was if he hadn't shouted "JOHN FOREMAN" at me, and introduced himself! :O

JWF-
lt took me quite a while to go solo,(circa 18hrs?) though we were doing other things until I did.
Since then it's been very good progress,so it goes to show that a 10 hr solo doesn't necessarily mean a great improvement overall.
Re solo nav so far, before I leave my instructor lets me do all the sums first then we go through them together to see if I'm right.
Really embarrassing one day when I laid off the wind on one leg in the wrong direction( and I have been sailing all my life!)
Just shows it pays to draw the wind on the chart and see what it's doing to you,then double check all your results!
Another thing, I thought that I could memorise checklists and do them that way.
Big mistake, as I have missed really important stuff by jumping a stage!
I flew at night last weekend with a good PPL of around 250 hrs.
He went through the check list really thoroughly just as I should do,so another lesson learned.
Talking to a pal who is an airline pilot,he told me they always use checklists because it's very easy to miss someting really imporatant.
Now no flying lessons until 6th Jan as school closed but no doubt I'll be up in the Moth or something over the hols.
Lister:D :D

On my first few solo's I had a worrying tendancy to not do my landing checks. This prompted me to rights "CHECKS" on my kneeboard, and never forgot about them since.

As for the HASELLcheck - I totally forgot what some of them were yesterday. Luckily I had the checklist to hand, and went through them. Always good to have it there.

I expect if my instructor were sending me off solo, or we were going futher away, he'd veryify my sums. I think yesterday was a mini "test" to make sure I could actually do it. He checked my final figure for heading, and seemed to think they were ok. I'm in the habit of putting a large arrow on my chart now too, makes it a lot easier for quick checks etc.

My next navigation is a longer route, so will likely go through the calculations. Then I do them both solo (assuming everything's ok in the dual), and then start the land-aways! :D

And you're solo - don't think 18 hours is "quite a while" - I'd say that's pretty darn good! But like you said, doesn't make much difference in the end!

Nice to say 'hi' John. Good to put a face to the name from here. Glad your dual nav went well, you'll do it yourself next and that is a fantastic experience.

Great to see you coming along with your PPL. The QXC won't be far away and then its revision for the skills test. The class of 2006 beckons!!