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-   -   Do I need a logbook ? (https://www.pprune.org/private-flying/622510-do-i-need-logbook.html)

asmith474 14th Jun 2019 18:38

Do I need a logbook ?
 
Sorry if this is a stupid question but i'm unsure on the matter. I just started my PPL training with the goal of eventually completing the full f-ATPL. I'm two lessons in and my instructor hasn't mentioned anything about the logbook. Won't I need a logbook as proof of my 200h when applying to the airlines ?
Lastly can someone recommend me a good logbook, digital or paperback?
Thanks

Pilot DAR 14th Jun 2019 20:42

Yes, if you are receiving qualifying instruction, you sure want to be logging it in your personal pilot logbook! For a short period, you can recreate entries which have not been made and should have been, by going back the the flying school records, though that is not something which should be expected months or years later. There is not reason to fly as a student receiving training, solo, or PIC, without recording that experience for future qualification. Very certainly your instructor should have provided you with a pilot training record following the first training flight. Follow that up with he/she....

On Track 15th Jun 2019 06:08

In every jurisdiction where I have flown it is a legal requirement to keep a logbook.

Genghis the Engineer 16th Jun 2019 04:08

It's not that unusual that schools don't bother to mention a logbook for the first few lessons, as it's easy enough to retrospectively enter the first few flights from school records.

If you're going professional, I'd buy something labelled as either "FAA Professional" or "EASA compliant professional". For example...

https://transair.co.uk/pilot-supplie...-book-non-easa

https://www.pooleys.com/shop/pooleys...ying-log-book/

https://www.afeonline.com/shop/afe-p...s-logbook.html

(Those three links probably represent the most popular FAA logbook, and the two most popular EASA logbooks for professional pilots. It's really not a problem switching between EASA and FAA without changing logbook - but it's probably easiest to start as you mean to go on. That means also commencing an electronic backup - there are various commercial products to do that, or write your own; just google that topic and you'll find plenty of options and recommendations.)

Incidentally, I used one of these for 20 years (before eventually designing my own) with a mixture of CAA, JAA, EASA and FAA licences - and no great problems beyond having to change a few column headings manually... I still like it.

https://www.pooleys.com/shop/pooleys...ilots-log-book

G

rarelyathome 16th Jun 2019 05:34

The main thing is to keep an accurate record of your flying. In the early days, ask your instruct to talk you through how to complete the log properly and make sure your logbook agrees with what your training record says; itíll save you a lot of hassle when itís time to apply for your first licence. I prefer an electronic logbook as it is really easy to generate reports for the various totals often required by either the Authority or employer. There are plenty around that are fully compliant and accepted by the authority.

Finally, if you stick with the paper version, I would recommend recording your time in decimal (every 6 mins is 0.1) as it makes totalling the columns at the end of each page much easier.

asmith474 18th Jun 2019 13:36


Originally Posted by rarelyathome (Post 10494792)
The main thing is to keep an accurate record of your flying. In the early days, ask your instruct to talk you through how to complete the log properly and make sure your logbook agrees with what your training record says; itíll save you a lot of hassle when itís time to apply for your first licence. I prefer an electronic logbook as it is really easy to generate reports for the various totals often required by either the Authority or employer. There are plenty around that are fully compliant and accepted by the authority.

Finally, if you stick with the paper version, I would recommend recording your time in decimal (every 6 mins is 0.1) as it makes totalling the columns at the end of each page much easier.

Ok thanks for the info. I bought a basic log book for my training but i think im going to use a digital one as well. Any recommendations for a lower budget ?

ApolloHeli 18th Jun 2019 16:37


Originally Posted by asmith474 (Post 10496645)
Ok thanks for the info. I bought a basic log book for my training but i think im going to use a digital one as well. Any recommendations for a lower budget ?

One I use for free as a backup of my hardcopy logbook is mccPilotlog. I cannot post links yet but just google it - it's a downloadable / offline computer software.

It works on Mac and PC. I also use it to double-check there have been no counting errors in my paper logbook.

Sam Rutherford 18th Jun 2019 17:11


Originally Posted by On Track (Post 10494134)
In every jurisdiction where I have flown it is a legal requirement to keep a logbook.

Being pedantic, it isn't. You only need a logbook if you intend to rely on the hours you have flown to prove something...

Of course, 99.999999% of pilots need those hours to prove something - thus the pedantic comment!

On Track 19th Jun 2019 07:20

Well you live in a different jurisdiction. I have no idea what the rules are there.

Jhieminga 19th Jun 2019 08:48

mccPilotlog is not supported anymore, the business is moving over to a new version, Crewlounge Pilotlog, see here for more about this: https://www.pprune.org/biz-jets-ag-f...logbook-9.html

I'm on mccPilotlog myself and wondering whether to switch to something else entirely as I'm not that impressed with the new offer. I wouldn't recommend getting mccPilotlog now as the app will not be updated.

Genghis the Engineer 19th Jun 2019 21:02


Originally Posted by Sam Rutherford (Post 10496854)
Being pedantic, it isn't. You only need a logbook if you intend to rely on the hours you have flown to prove something...

Of course, 99.999999% of pilots need those hours to prove something - thus the pedantic comment!

That is in the USA.

Most of the rest of the world require all flights as crew in any capacity to be logged.

G

18greens 19th Jun 2019 21:58

If I was going to start again I would get two professional log books, fill them in in parallel and I would keep an excel backup. Also top tip write your name on the top and bottom across the ends of the pages. That way when you are trying to find your log book in a pile of 25 other identical ones you don't need to open every book.

The reason for two paper logs is you occasionally have to send your log book to the caa. I always send my number 2 logbook. They haven't failed to send it back yet, but if they did I still have the number 1 logbook.

The reason for the excel copy is it makes adding up the type time soooo much easier. I'd be wary of commercially available electronic log books. When they fold what happens? I've used them blissfully in the past until I upgrade from windows 7 to 10 and then you find it's not supported on 10.

It all sounds an arse but when you pay £400+ per hour make sure you don't lose any of it. Enjoy your flying.

Dan Winterland 20th Jun 2019 10:21

When going to job interviews, it's best to have a paper logbook. And not one that looks like the whole thing was written up the week before!

Genghis the Engineer 20th Jun 2019 14:27


Originally Posted by 18greens (Post 10498101)
If I was going to start again I would get two professional log books, fill them in in parallel and I would keep an excel backup. Also top tip write your name on the top and bottom across the ends of the pages. That way when you are trying to find your log book in a pile of 25 other identical ones you don't need to open every book.

The reason for two paper logs is you occasionally have to send your log book to the caa. I always send my number 2 logbook. They haven't failed to send it back yet, but if they did I still have the number 1 logbook.

The reason for the excel copy is it makes adding up the type time soooo much easier. I'd be wary of commercially available electronic log books. When they fold what happens? I've used them blissfully in the past until I upgrade from windows 7 to 10 and then you find it's not supported on 10.

It all sounds an arse but when you pay £400+ per hour make sure you don't lose any of it. Enjoy your flying.

I have a paper logbook as primary, and electronic (written by me in Excel as none of the commercial products suited my personal needs) as secondary. When I need to send anything to the CAA, they get a printout of the Excel logbook (printed on A3 it works out about 100hrs per side of paper), with my signature on the first and last pages stating "I certify that this is a true copy of my original logbook". I then shred the printout once they've sent it back with my licence.

They've always accepted it. The Excel logbook is backed up to two different places automatically as part of my normal data backup.

G

Pilot DAR 20th Jun 2019 17:07

I make no assertion as to what any regulator requires or accepts. However, reading the Canadian regulations leads one to the understanding that an acceptable log of piloting experience is required to be presented when applying for an additional piloting privilege ('makes sense to me). Since the advent of Execl, that's been my sole format for recording my flying experience, and it is of course backed up. When I presented myself for a fixed wing CPL, I took my notebook computer, and showed across the counter, my Excel pilot log. I offered to sort and print it however the inspector wished, and he kindly declined having it on paper, seeing I had it, and recording totals on his form seemed to be enough. When I did my PPLH, I did maintain a separate pilot training record (PTR) log, and was told that when I submitted it for my license, it would not be returned. I haven't maintained a paper logbook since 1987.

Tinstaafl 22nd Jun 2019 20:42

I keep a paper logbook (Australian style) and starting this year, an additional electronic one. (www.myflightbook.com). I've used my Oz logbooks for Oz, US, & UK ATPLs without any problems. When I started the electronic one I took the time (months) to enter every single flight over 36 years and nearly 9k hours into it.

Starting a US airline job this year I presented both the paper and printed out versions.

re why myflightbook.com? I wanted any electronic log to have a downloadable copy that was readable by damn near anything. This does Excel spreadsheet and comma delimited text. It also does a large range of country specific formats - and is free! But feel free to donate, like I did.
​​​

18greens 25th Jun 2019 14:35


Originally Posted by Genghis the Engineer (Post 10498666)
I have a paper logbook as primary, and electronic (written by me in Excel as none of the commercial products suited my personal needs) as secondary. When I need to send anything to the CAA, they get a printout of the Excel logbook (printed on A3 it works out about 100hrs per side of paper), with my signature on the first and last pages stating "I certify that this is a true copy of my original logbook". I then shred the printout once they've sent it back with my licence.

They've always accepted it. The Excel logbook is backed up to two different places automatically as part of my normal data backup.

G

Good to know they are happy to accept an excel output. I might apply some thought to creating one from scratch. The paper one is a pain to add up and carries forwards errors in the subtotals.


Genghis the Engineer 26th Jun 2019 01:47

It's a remarkably satisfying thing to do.

G

18greens 26th Jun 2019 11:53


Originally Posted by Genghis the Engineer (Post 10503012)
It's a remarkably satisfying thing to do.

G

I've started! Any tips on structure, column headings etc....How to accommodate Sim time.

Prop swinger 26th Jun 2019 14:22

1 Attachment(s)
CAP 804 extract on logging time attached.


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