There is nice diagram on p.99 of the Skyway Code of which the content, judging by some of the UKAB reports, may not be quite the common knowledge we think it is.

Also, I think on average we could do better with the radio. It’s another anti-collision device but one that many seem reticent to use when they are in doubt about a traffic pattern, runway(s) in use or where other aircraft are. It seems that some would rather get enough of a surprise that their exploits make it into print, rather than press the button and ask a question... :confused:

It’s quite OK to be unsure about something - that happens all the time, even in commercial aviation. What isn’t as good is carrying on with what you’re not happy with when there are many opportunities to obtain more information. An option that few seem to consider is that if it’s getting really messy, leave the circuit entirely and have another go from a better position.

Not much use for most of the airfields I and many others visit. Hardly definitive. What's ATIS by the way?

ATIS are all very well if you fly from a real airfield that has them.
There will usually be an airfield plate with circuit procedures though.

Where possible I would say join as the operator reccomends or as directed by the AIP. However there will be situations where instructors or commercial pilots may need to operate in a more expidious way, so joining such as directly on to crosswind, For example a twenty minute trial lesson conducted by an to maximize the experience for the student to join on base might be reasonable.

The key thing in all of this is to maintain your own situational situational (SITAW)awareness by listening to the aircraft R/T calls and helping other pilots with their SITAW, even if it requires additional R/T call. This is based on there is A/G but no AFISO on duty.

The problem with instructors making non stadard joins, is that others you may considr themselves more exprienced PPL,s feeel they are above overhead joins. No the difficulty here is that if you join onto base or finals, the pilot is more likely to forget the prelanding checks. A case in point many years ago, at my local airfiled, one of the pilots, on returning from a business trips, he would regurlary call finals when I actual knew he was about 12 nm away, it was very disruptive to training and the instructors pointed this out to him in a kind way. Two weeks later I am on base leg, he calls long finals, I request his poistion, and he was 15 miles out, so I informed him since he was not even on a long final (4nm to 8nm), but still on a cross country, I had priority, and he would need to do a stadard overhead join as I was going to make a full stop land and 180 backtrack I though I had made my point.

A couple of months later same thing happens, I'm operating the A/G as an AFISO, pass the airfield information, I requests he calls long finals at between 4nm and 8nm, and finals when at less than 4 nm. I'm distraced for a few moments, and as I look out of the window, and I see the aircraft skidding down the runway on its belly. Apart from being a FI and an AFISO, was also fire crew, so we sped out to him, the triple bladed prop was bent, engine shock loaded, flaps ripped up and the fuselarge damaged.

The moral of this story is that if you do a non standard join you need to be sure yoour checks are completed, and the belt and braces approch is for the student or instructor on complex singles to make the call (not on R/T) as follows at around three hundred feet on finals.

'RED/BLUE/GREEN' (mixture, prop, 3 geens).

To add I have never agreed with the ATC/AFISO stating 'check three greens, unless the suspect the gear is still up.

Another accident I was aware of was a midair collision, one fatality and two survivors. A pilot in a high wing aircraft takes off from the duty runway and turns crosswind clinbing up to 1000ft, a high performace bi plane elects to join crosswind wind at 1000ft the same time, By the time they collide with each other, they are both about to turn downwind.

The AAIB cite the low sun as a factor, but also the somewhat late rejoin call from the bi plane. I would imagine that both aircraft in a time frame of 5 to ten minutes would have made 3 R/T calls each, yet neither were aware of the possible conflict. The AAIB pointed our that the late rejoin call by the bi plane was a factor. I do wonder whether a 'sterile cockpit' might have help avoid an accident.

So the sum up:

(a) Overhead joins are preferable for low hour pilots <500 hrs.
(b) Listen out to other aircraft, build a mental model of the other aircraft.
(c) Remember you can make additional calls such as base, late downwind, crosswind, if it is going to make your position clearer to other aircraft.
(d) Always have your landing lights on in the overhead and circuit, I know some clubs are against this on the basis of cost.
(e) Call up the airfield in a timely manner, I would say at least ten minutes, so you can build the big picture.
(f) Consider a 'sterile cockpit' in the overhead, rejoin and circuit, by that I mean only conversations that relate to the operation of the aircraft. This is what airline crew do below 10,000 ft.
(g) Give a wider berth for student pilots and thos with an Exam callsign.
(h) All the above relates to A/G airfiels where an AFISO may or not be there.

Tower or no tower, my standard is 45 degrees to the down wind, every light on the airplane on, landing light, strobes, position, beacon.

I get a good view of the circuit and can see if there is anyone there.

At non tower anounce about 5 miles out and every time I drop my 500ft, seems to work ok.

I have noticed that a lot of airports do not seem to like overhead joins, I just avoid going it now on principle.

I am always very wary of overhead joins. The procedure puts any potential number of aircraft at the same point in space, at a time when the pilots are having to concentrate on a number of things other than lookout.

"not cleared for grass". I don't understand this. Do you have to be 'cleared' to operate from grass in the UK?

No and there is no beach landing qualification or channel crossing which is are others ones which is made up by some.

I'm going to sit my beach and channel crossing test right after I get my mountain rating😉

Mountain rating is a real one. But there are no airports in the UK that have a requirement for you to have it.

have you not been to Barra yet or landed on of the other west coast beaches?

Not wishing to be rude, but what's that in English, please?

Other fields - mine for one example - require it. Why not simply contact the a/d operator and ask? I am sure that works better than generalising - which is a kind of assumption - and we all know assumption is the mother of all f____ps.

Try Luxters Farm near Henley; if it was licenced you would need the rating!

Like I said at #12, ask when you phone for PPR.

Some clubs like to insist that you get a check out before you fly across the channel or land on a beach or land on grass. And like to make people think it's an official requirement by calling it a rating

I totally agree, @chevvron, but - as incomprehensible as I find it - there seem to be those who utterly reject the PPR concept.

This requirement was attempted to be pushed on me as a SPA IR holder with 3000 hours and 1100 hours FI for a channel crossing. And it was called a rating.

Seemed more of an excuse for the company to claim the tax back on fuel and get 5 hours in some zero to hero's FI's log book than anything else.

First time I landed on sand was with a student on board.

Aye but funny enough I wouldn't have a problem going cross channel...

But personally I would take someone if I was to try and do a VFR trip round the London TMA.

IFR in a twin in the TMA absolutely no problem. VFR in a SEP no chance. Something that a local PPL more than likely wouldn't think twice about doing.

My first flight over the channel, solo in a rented aircraft, I didn't even see the water! - coast to coast fog. (I could see the land on both sides OK.) I think the only "procedures for ... flight over water" that I followed were (a) fly 1' below controlled airspace and (b) don't touch the engine controls over water. I probably tried to get in the coasting out/in and mid channel calls, but you know what LI's like.

I think I might disagree about sending someone solo on grass without having shown them that all the bumping around is normal and well within the aircraft's capabilities. Yes you can explain to them all the stuff about what to do when thrown into the air prematurely by a bump (not something that happens on tarmac) and so on, but I for one would have been disconcerted to experience all that by myself for the first time.

h'mm I would think carb heat would be advisable especially with fog down below.