Ikarus C42 thoughts?
 

Looking for suggestions for the future, as a commercial pilot for 10 years I've longed to get back into GA for some time but it's so expensive. Now I don't have the time with a young family but will do in the future and I've always said I'd like an aircraft I could take somewhere(3hrs endurance tops not channel hopping) as I'd get bored finding my house for an hour each week and something interesting like a tail dragger or vintage to get back to basics without it been a spam can. Can anyone recommend the C42? Or something as cheap...(I know it's not a tail dragger or vintage 😜)

Pros.
1. Very modern 3-4K a share £30 a month and £20hr dry (cheap mogas)
2. Basic instruments so great for getting the charts out.
3. Unusual, in that the control stick is centre and other strange lever ergonomics
4. Capable of farm strips
5. Above all it seems very SAFE. German built, Easy to fly with BRS fitted. I'm past the days of getting in anything I have a family I want to share the experiance with safely.

I fly airliners with lots of fancy EFIS/FADEC/AUTOPILOT etc so the thought of something like a cirrus bores me, but the thought of a Harvard would cripple me financially lol.

Anybody have have experiences with the IKARUS? Or thoughts on other aircraft? :ok:

My 'day' job is teaching people to fly in a PA28. Our microlight school had until recently been strictly flexwing. I had a ride in one but thought I'd never, after 35 years and at my advancing years ever master the differences. Recently they bought a C42. I had a go and was hooked! I now fly it just for fun, even at the end of a day in the PA28, for relaxation. As you say, the controls are all in different places but it only took me one ride to get used to them (though selecting flap is still not as smooth as I'd like). I'd say it's more of a challenge to land well but feels really safe. If you can find a C42 group to join, go for it!
However, one note of caution. Probably, like me, you've no qualms about IMC. Today, we went from few at 900' and otherwise blue sky to overcast at 900' whilst we were out in the PA28. Not a problem, just let down IMC. This would be a potential disaster in the C42.

I think you'll find the limitiation with the very light end of GA is that of payload. For example a C42 can only lift a total of 180kg. It's fine if you want to fly solo, but put two 90kg people on board and you are left with 3kg for fuel! And that's before you factor in things such as luggage and the general detritous which accumulates in most aircraft.
I suspect that most replies will suggest going down the LAA permit route in something like a Jodel as they can be good load-lifters with more sensible running costs compared to spam cans.
So probably a good starting point would be to consider what the a/c would normally be expected to carry - that should narrow the field a bit.
Oh - and don't forget - you'll have to make your own coffee ;-)

A friend is training in an Ikarus and likes it a lot, but prefers the Rans S6. The payload is vastly different, the design is good, the 80hp Rotax is fairly bullet-proof, the flap lever doesn't try to skin you and the stick is in a conventional position. And they are cheaper. My OH (who may pop up here) reckons that the recovering that is necessary periodically is a small price to pay for flying as cheap as one could get in any aeroplane-shaped machine.

You could buy three or four Jodels for the cost of one Sportcruiser (or equivalent); presuming you have hangarage, they are definitely worth considering. Lots of fun.

My 2d worth.

Personally, I would go for a LAA permit light aircraft.

Running costs are virtually identical with the same engine but you have a bigger choice of types especially vintage and taildraggers- and they are often cheaper to buy than a C42.

See also the comments on the recent "Microlight, Permit or C of A ? " thread.

PS I have a Kitfox Model 5 taildragger with Rotax 912ULS.

You only have to look at the number of C42s on the register and the number of schools that use them to realise it is considered a good choice by many.

Have you considered an EV97 Eurostar? I fly both the EV97 and the C42 and I far prefer the EV97. Much better visibility being low wing, 20kts quicker, same engine, same running costs and parts availability seems to be much better too. I spent 20 hours flying round the alps in one in September and it was superb. We've got the newer SL model which has EFIS, BRS and looks a little sleeker too. Definitely worth a look.

I learned to fly on one 6 years ago, then converted it to a group A after a year of microlight flying.

The C42 is a wonderful aircraft. Responsive, forgiving, easy to fly. 80hp beats the 100hp in my opinion. Extra power unnecessary, burns more, not as smooth.

I heard a story from a friend only this week who is learning to fly on one. He said ... "Just got to do a couple more solo hours and Came in with too much airspeed and didnt bleed it off in the roundout. Bounced on the runway and tried to save it rather than going around. Bounced 3 more times which got progressively worse with nose high attitude. Thought I was going to lose it but somehow it recovered itself."

Must be very forgiving indeed!!!

The only downside is the same as the upside! It's so forgiving and easy to fly, I personally consider it a little dull. It is Also lacking in any space to put anything.

I wonder why I agree with you. :)

Like the OP I operate some pretty sophisticated kit, both fixed and rotary wing.

I have an LAA single seat rag and stick aeroplane for the joy of it and have recently bought a six seat go places machine.

I would love something like ChampChump's Aeronca, but have never been quick enough out of the blocks when one comes up for sale. (Also the current Lady Dementia would have apoplexy if I bought another aeroplane)

Have you tried a SkyRanger? A colleague bought one for exactly the same reasons as the OP gives, he (the colleague) is besotted with it, and I don't blame him. The shortfield ability is fantastic, the price is reasonable for a young bloke with young family, the handling is not brilliant, but I do covet the thing.

It is a bit of a compromise in most areas, but great fun for just bimbling. His current ambition is to visit every strip in Lockyears.

SND

Thanks for the constructive inputs, I used to say I wouldn't want anything to easy to fly incase I got bored but I think it's important to be safe incase I've not flown it in a while I can jump straight in. Getting something forgiving and rewarding is a challenge. I thought of a chipmunk but it can get expensive flying it often and I have a few friends who own a share in one but never fly it. . With regard to the C42 weight I'm 6ft 1 but slim...ish, I was going to take 2 adults not worried about bags a rucksack will suffice. Daft question as I'm pre VLA etc but is the microlight version and VLA/class A versions differnt aircraft or is it like commercial just pay more fees to CAA to class the aircraft higher weight?
With regard LAA aircraft I love that scene but I wouldn't fancy an amateur built aircraft which is a shame as there are so many great designs.

The Eurostar is a sweet looking aircraft but it's looks very conventional for my use I.e controls in the correct places. And I see very few come up in shares.

Running costs of Microlight or VLA/Class A versions of same aircraft virtually identical as long as both are on BMAA/LAA permit. Although I am not sure why you do not fancy amateur built aircraft (particularly since some of the modern kits are, whisper it, essentially factory built and assembled by the first owner), many LAA aircraft were factory built eg. Jodels, Aeroncas, Luscombes etc.


PS The Eurostar is a lovely little aircraft particularly the LAA version with 100hp. I used to have a share in one. It's just that the Kitfox is more interesting to fly, copes with rougher/softer fields because it is a taildragger with big main tyres and you can fold the wings and take it home with you if you want- see this video taken when I was selling a previous Kitfox: https://youtu.be/rfPJGJeWk50


NB The phone number at the end is no longer valid.

Fantastic video, the exact type of flying I'm after that really is back to basics and looks very rewarding., appreciate the time to post that forfoxake.

I have no experience of the C-42, and there are remarkably few of them here in BE. As I understand things, it makes an excellent trainer and serves very well for a local bimble. For touring, even on a modest scale, one might want something faster, though. And, as has been rightly stated, with a bit more load carrying capacity.

Regarding the VLA/microlight difference: there are quite some legal differences, but they will only become relevant on "serious" touring. Flying a microlight internationally requires (in theory) an overflight permit for each country visited. The VLA, being an EASA concept, has no limitation there - as long as the UK adheres to EASA ;)

If you have reservations about the C42 as a tourer, a locally based pilot flew his from Goodwood to Capetown and back to Goodwood. Google "Flight of Ikarus". Quite a trip to say the least.

I have been flying my 70yr old Champ for 700hrs and 15yrs now, and it suits me perfectly - but like any vintage vehicle be it car or aeroplane it's not turn-the-key-and-go like a modern equivalent, and that's where the C42 Ikarus and EV97 Eurostar win ... or lose depending on personal preferences! Maintenance can be time-consuming, and some spares are becoming increasingly difficult to find. Not impossible, just time-consuming (again!).

I have not flown a C42, although it's something I plan to do as I would like to sample the central stick and unusual throttle arrangement; I have had a few trips in a Eurostar, which I think is a delightful machine. The showstopper for me is the capital cost for a decent pre-owned example of either C42 or EV97, which is roughly 3 times that of a Champ. Difficult to justify that investment to Mrs Slip. I'm used to being sole-owner, so I don't plan to join a group until that should become the only option left to me.

Only a few EU countries require an overflight permit* for microlights and CS-VLA is an EASA certification specification, not a Certificate of Airworthiness. The C42 VLA is not an EASA aircraft and neither is my homebuilt CS-VLA compliant EV97.

* only two countries charge for them. No prizes for guessing which they are.

Just another pointer.

All Rans S6, except the S6-116 model are microlights max AUW 450 kg.
The Rans S6-116 is a proper 'aeroplane' P1 using a PPL (A) or modern equivalent & its 500 kg AUW makes it a better bet. With the 5 ft smaller wing behaves more sportingly (not much mind you).


The C42 is a microlight max 475 ish KG if you carry the expensive ballistic parachute which weighs part of the extra gain too !.
Under that nice looking cosmetic non structural skin is a simple Ali tube boom: like all of this type fatigue can affect them if well used.
Also I hear they're so very boringly easy to fly you might regret it soon.

mike hallam.

One for you to consider the quite amazing Zenair 701. I'm now on my second. 500kg MAUW. 90 liters fuel. Over six hours endurance. Farm strips doddle. 44 lbs luggage. Very tolerant C of G. 100hp Rotax giving 90 mph cruise. Good panel with most things you need inc. AI. Transponder. Strobes. Nav. lights. Tundras. About 1,000 flying worldwide. Available as kit or factory. Price: anywhere from £20k to 35.


The C42 is a great choice.

I don't think I'd turn up my nose at any of the current or recent generation 912 engined 3-axis microlights. Each have their strengths and weaknesses, most are a little limited on payload - but for a nice, cheap to run, puddlehopper for 1 person and proper bag, or two people doing short legs with small bags, they're pretty much all good.

Others in the same bracket I'd look at:-

Medway SLA Executive
SkyRanger (any version with a 912 or 912S engine)
CH740 Savannah
Zenair CH601 / Zodiac (most versions, just fly it and make your mind up)
FlightDesign CT2K or later CTSW
EV97 Eurostar
Reality Escapade (maybe not the earlier Easy Raider if you ever plan on taking a friend flying who you still want to be your friend after the flight).

G

Thank you for the great replies to the post it's given me lots to look at other than the C42 but also reassured me if I choose the c42 it's a good egg. GA has come on leaps and bounds from only 10years who when I was last involved with it, when the cheapest real aircraft was an old C150 or you had to start looking a 2 stroke lawnmower inventions.��

If you are on a tight budget don't be too hasty to dismiss the "lawnmower" engines. For your 3 or 4k you are looking at a 15th or 20th share of a C42. Getting access to the aircraft just when you want to fly might be tricky. I looked at that situation and decided that owning 100% of a flying machine was what I needed, always available, throw in my tent and clear off camping for a week without putting anyones nose out of joint. It was a two stroke Rans S6 microlight. I flew 400 hours in it, crossed the channel every year I owned it and never had a diversion due to engine issues. Being a pull start I never got held up by a flat battery. It was cheap, cheerful and all mine. It even has a proper joystick and a quadrant throttle.

Aeroprakt?
 

A while go I test flew the Aeroprakt A22 (Foxbat) and absolutely loved it. Great handling and performance (STOL), superb visibility, and looked to be really well built. It's not beautiful in the traditional sense but I think it looks better than the C42. It's very reasonably priced for what it is as a new aircraft. So maybe you can find a group with a pre-owned one. I would go for the cheaper and smoother 80hp version.

Welcome

FWIW there is a quite nice looking one on offer at
[Verkaufe] C42 A sehr wenig geflogen - UL Flugzeugmarkt von ulForum.de
Feel free to PM if you want help in translation - I do not know the seller, nor do I have any interest.

Because microlights are sub-ICAO, it is generally best to avoid getting into the game of moving already flying microlights between countries. Some countries (France for example) may be fairly relaxed about it, but many aren't. The reason is basically that there are no international standards for inspection, design approval, and level of oversight - and thus no country can have much confidence that things have been done to at least their own standards in any other country.

Unless you have a passion for paperwork, report writing and engineering inspections - it is best to buy something that already has the correct letter at the start of the registration.

G

Fair enough, @GtE, there is that to it.
Still, it needn't always be so bad: mine was bought in Hungary, and the administration took only four months, not longer than for an average domestic change of ownership.

Of course [[the illusion of]] Brexit may weigh in heavy...

I think that Brexit's irrelevant to be honest. The UK CAA and sport flying associations have always been extremely careful about build and maintenance standards of imported sub-ICAO aircraft, and we're remaining full members of EASA post Brexit so far as anybody knows.

G

Again, fair enough. I ought to have added some emoticons ;)

Seriously, though, the UK does seem to be more dedicated and at the same time more practical than my own authority - who fussed for several months over the release # of the POH (which did not correspond with what they had in their files) but finally did release the craft to traffic, without ever realising there was no magnetic compass installed.

Which might make for some difficulties, yes, and such was your point.

Yes. Some people complain about the British system - but in my experience it's mostly the people who can't or won't become competent enough.

The general experience is that we tend to be very thorough on safety and procedure - but quite slick when people are prepared to jump through all the hoops. Equally some things are easier to do than others - and bringing a second hand sub-ICAO aeroplane into the UK has never been very easy and the main associations will usually actively try and talk you out of trying.

G

The Escapade microlight can very quickly be converted to taildragger config.

And IMHO has a nice old classic look.

Reality Escapade Taildragger Ul Power Award Winner - Aero Sales - Buy, Sell & Rent Aircraft in UK & Europe

Genghis,

Seriously, putting politics aside, why do you believe that the UK will remain part of EASA? Once article 50 will be triggered, the process starts for the UK to leave the EU, so it is unclear to me why they will remain part of an European authority?
As some said: "out means out" - to me it is not granted for UK CAA to definitely remain part of EASA. I would not take Switzerland or Norway (?) as example of non-EU countries being members of EASA. AFAIK, they do not take part in the decision process and thus only receive the decisions the voting members made.

So,again, no politics, just trying to get the facts right (although a bit early as the exit-process has not started yet). I have a UK-EASA license and hence am concerned / unsure whether to consider relocating the license.

Thanks,

Marcel

I think at least in part because the CAA has been largely dismantled and there is no longer expertise or indeed the political will to build it up again. I suspect this is the case with many areas - we only see aviation.

Just my view
TOO

MikeWhiskey;

At a post Brexit briefing for AOC operators at the CAA, THEY anounced that they will stay as part of EASA to maintain commonanlity of legislation.

As TOO says, much expertise has already devolved to EASA, rebuilding the CAA from scratch would be a massive and costly exercise, and a whole legislative process on its' own.

Oddly, much as I bitch and whine about EASA I actually prefer the legislation to the days of JAR and before, when in many ways we were far more restricted than now.

SND

That, and the simple fact that there's no reason to leave EASA. EASA grew out of JAA, but JAA was far bigger than just the EU, and so unsurprisingly is EASA. It has 12 full members who aren't EU members, and as Britain has the world's second largest aerospace industry, not to mention massive supply chains into various other corners of the EASA regulated world.

Basically there's no reason to leave EASA, and some very good reasons not to.


To most of these, of-course, we in light GA are pretty much an irrelevance. All decisions will be driven by the high value heavy metal.

G

Genghis;

One day the regulator is going to wake up to just how big the UK GA fleet is, and just how much employment it provides, at the moment the regulator is a bit like sleeping beauty, sleeping for a hundred years, having sweet dreams and knowing f### all. How do you fancy being the handsome prince and kissing Andrew Haines, or Mark Swan to wake them up?:E

SND

"all decisions will be driven by,,,,"




Which of course is as good a reason as any for all commercial heavy metal to be regulated by EASA only and GA to be regulated by only national authorities.

... if it weren't that we all fly the same medium called "airspace"

Things would be different if it were possible to put up visible boundaries and/or traffic signs and/or semaphores.

Not even the UK gov't will ever be so clean daft as to have one and the same bit of airspace be regulated by themselves for certain craft but by foreigners for others. Or so I hope and thrust.

According to some opinion, that won't arise. We'll still be part of EASA. My comment was directed at separating commercial aviation from non commercial.


If EASA are to continue their supervision of UK airspace then no doubt they'll want to charge for their expertise. This they can do from commercial sources. The 'minnow' that is GA can be left to the administration of national regulators.


Apart from anything else, we might then be able to make sense of the present licencing regime - a tangled web if ever there was one.

Yes, so much you made clear, but I am afraid I still can't see how this could ever be implemented.

"aircraft such and such, according to your ADS-B output you are commercial yet you are in the non-commercial airspace, get out immediately or you'll have a couple of Tornado's at your b*m with all the cost and hassle associated"

The inverse situation might be even harder.

Or, put otherwise: the UK may or may not remain in the EU - the UK may or may not remain with EASA - but the UK will be bound by ICAO regulations, lest they go REALLY cavalier seul - so they'll have airspace class A-B-..-G and that's all.

It's quite easy to distinguish the two. Commercials are big and heavy, make a bit of noise and use large places called commercial airports.


They seldom - if ever, stray into lower airspace. Even so, they are easy to pick out.