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-   -   Tracey Curtis-Taylor (Merged threads) (https://www.pprune.org/private-flying/579030-tracey-curtis-taylor-merged-threads.html)

bgbazz 18th Oct 2016 20:01

Originally Posted by noflynomore (Post 9545109)
TCT "And the only part that wasn't wrecked was the fuselage"
Libby Purves "And the pilot"
TCT "and the two - uh, the pilot - and my crew"

Oh, she sure let that one slip, quite clear that her mindset, hastily corrected, was that there were two pilots on board.

Maybe it should have been

TCT "and the two - uh, the pilot - and me".

Hadley Rille 18th Oct 2016 20:18

Was this all a private undertaking with the sponsors chipping in a few bob?
Or was it a commercial promotional exercise for the benefit of the sponsors with a commercial documentary being made along the way thus requiring a commercial pilot?

Midlifec 18th Oct 2016 20:40

Has anyone e-mailed Ewald re his statement ? And if so has anyone had a reply......

Stanwell 18th Oct 2016 20:41

Please don't ask awkward questions, Hadley.
After all, the NTSB report on that unfortunate 'oopsy-daisy' at Winslow Arizona categorised the truncated flight as "Private"
and the reason for it as being "Personal".

Hadley Rille 18th Oct 2016 21:28

"Curiouser and curiouser!" cried Alice

noflynomore 18th Oct 2016 22:52

What mark of Caravan accompanied them?

From my time tankering barrels in Africa on the 208 I'd have thought that 4 up with baggage, support equipment/spares, film gear and fuel for 350 -400 miles plus it would have been very heavily loaded indeed. I'm wondering how on earth even one, let alone "barrels" of fuel were squeezed in on top of all that.

SATCOS WHIPPING BOY 18th Oct 2016 23:47

2 Attachment(s)
It would appear that the Pilatus on the London - Sydney jaunt carried 500L of fuel for the Stearman.

Also I, as a non-pilot, am a little confused as to the cause of the crash at Winslow; according to the 3G page it was as a result of fuel contamination.

Boeing Stearman

Jonzarno 19th Oct 2016 00:08

Originally Posted by Hadley Rille (Post 9545248)
Was this all a private undertaking with the sponsors chipping in a few bob?
Or was it a commercial promotional exercise for the benefit of the sponsors with a commercial documentary being made along the way thus requiring a commercial pilot?

This is an interesting point.

If Ms. Curtis-Taylor really DID fly "Alone in an open cockpit plane" making a commercial documentary, and possibly with commercial sponsorship in return for which she is providing publicity arising from her flying: she would have needed a commercial licence. Does she have one?

If she doesn't have a CPL and DID do what she claims, she would appear to be in breach of her licence conditions, which would also void her insurance. That should make the insurance claims on the accidents discussed here interesting to say the least!

Of course, if she was accompanied by another pilot who does have one, or an ATPL, and would presumably have to pe PIC, she would be fine. But then she wouldn't remotely be able to claim to have been "Solo", or even "Sole" pilot.

So which was it?

Whichever of the two possibilities is true: how can HCAP and the LAA possibly justify ANY award to someone who has either not done what they claim to have done or, even if they did, can only possibly have done so in flagrant breach of their licence conditions and, hence, without valid insurance?

noflynomore 19th Oct 2016 11:25

I don't think that the owner of an aeroplane, be it N reg or otherwise, needs a CPL if they're not carrying fare paying passengers. Certainly not swanniing around being filmed. That's barely even aerial work in UK, and no doubt much more relaxed rules apply in N land.

I'm afraid I don't think that one will fly.

Jonzarno 19th Oct 2016 13:20

That's interesting: as the holder of an FAA myself, I had thought that you couldn't do anything that from which you, or anyone else, derives a financial benefit; I didn't think it was limited to carrying passengers. Do you have a source for this as it would be very interesting for me to know for sure.

Many thanks!

Stanwell 19th Oct 2016 13:48

That has me interested too.
There is no doubt that the whole "Bird in a Biplane" rort has been a well thought out and funded commercial enterprise, albeit dressed up
to look as if it's just one altruistic little girl doing what she can toward the advancement of womankind.
It's pretty clear whose interests she's been advancing.

Obviously, Ewald has not been doing things for free, either.
Then, what about the accompanying chase-plane with the pilot, film crew, logistics manager, et cetera?

I know that the US likes to paint itself as 'the home of free enterprise' .. but, I somehow doubt that it's that free.


Mike Flynn 19th Oct 2016 14:05

Just wondering how the legals work in Australia Stanwell.

When I lived in Perth a couple of decades ago any sort of commercial work including photography or filming required an Australian commercial licence.

The Spirit of Artemis flew through Thailand where foreigners are not allowed to work on a tourist visa. The air to air work over Phuket was clearly in breach of Thai aviation law which is strictly enforced and does not allow non-residents to carry our air work.

Stanwell 19th Oct 2016 14:47

Some years back, I took a series of air-to-air stills of a mate's new design of light sport aircraft.
If they were just to go into his photo album - no problem.
But .. if they were used commercially (eg, to promote the product), then yes, there would have been trouble
had not the appropriate paperwork and fees been attended to beforehand.
And yes, the pilot would have needed to hold a CPL.

That area seems to be a bit greyer these days - where it seems that anything that appears on an internet forum, for example,
and not clearly marked 'copyright' can be used by anybody for whatever purpose.

Mike Flynn 19th Oct 2016 15:22

Just been exchanging pm's with Colin Hales who is stuck near Vladivostock, Russia on the Chinese border. The Chinese won't let him in so his plan now is to fly to Japan then Taiwan and on to Macao before flying to Thailand.

I am in Thailand at present but it would help if LAA members suggest Colin as a worthy recipient of the Bill Woodham Navigation Trophy if it is rescinded this weekend at the LAA AGM.

Colin reflects everything the LAA stands for.

ak7274 19th Oct 2016 15:54

This is getting silly. The award was given to TCT 2 years ago.
Why propose to give it to Colin now?
He is doing more than anyone I know to deserve all the accolades that I am sure will be bestowed upon him when he returns.
But give him a 2 year out of date award?
I am becoming more and more minded to vote for her to keep it.
I know who Flinty is and I also know who Sam is, but I have absolutely no idea who the rest of the main protagonists are, or indeed their credentials. Where are you from? What is your connection?

Mike Flynn 19th Oct 2016 16:06

I have evidence Bird in a Biplane Ltd and Tracey Curtis Taylor's lawyers are now trying to shut down any discussion of her exploits on the basis we all got it wrong.

Ms Curtis-Taylor has never sought to mislead anyone about
the way that her flights were undertaken.

By way of example, this is immediately apparent,from watching the documentary made about her 2013 flight.
Whenever she is interviewed in it, she repeatedly refers to “we”, “we’re”, “everyone” and “everybody”. In a number ofshots, it is obvious that there is someone sitting in the cockpit in front of her.

Finally, the DVD extras feature short films in which others are flying with her.

When it has come to herattention that certain statements made on her behalf, eg on her website, may be misinterpreted, she has taken prompt steps to correct them.

Further, none of the awards referred to above were given to Ms Curtis-Taylor on the basis that her flights were undertaken alone.
'Never sought to mislead' .
What does this picture taken at the Boeing Museum of Flight in Seattle earlier this year suggest?


Now here is the reason the expensive lawyers justify non discussion of the Spirit of Artemis.

Ms Curtis-Taylor’s sincere hope is that this letter will be taken in the spirit in which it is
intended - as a reasonable warning to you in the circumstances to desist forthwith in your
actions, and that it will put an end to this matter. It is not in anybody’s interests for this
campaign to continue.
In other words she wants closure?

Can I just suggest a statement saying 'Unlike Lady Mary Heath and Amy Johnson The Bird in the Biplane had a bloke in the the cockpit!'

That is how the tabloids will write it.

Advice to expensive lawyers...when in a hole,stop,digging.

In all my post I have always listed sources so it would be unfair to post the above without stating the lawyers letter came from Lorna Skinner at Matrix Partners.


SATCOS WHIPPING BOY 19th Oct 2016 16:19

Interesting AK7274.
Why are other people's credentials important to you? Is there a certain level of professional competence required to highlight the sham nature of her "journey"?

I am happy to give you an insight into why I am following this very closely:

*I am a retired RN/RAF officer - I worked bloody hard to earn my commissions.
*I was trainee aircrew and didn't make the grade - I was gutted when told I would not get my wings, again working bloody hard to attempt it.
*My son is a pilot - he worked bloody hard to earn the right to wear his brevet and losing two close friends in the process - a right bastard of a wake-up call to a 20 year old.
*I too was suckered into this story from almost day one; thinking it was a fantastic solo achievement I now feel I am a mug for believing it.
*I know many pilots and navigators worthy of high accolades but they have probably missed out as TCT has stolen the limelight and now has certainly soured it for future feats of aviation.
*The more I dug, the more I realised it was all a fantasy, the more I hear TCT speak the more I feel like vomiting.
*Finally we have groups like HCAP and the LAA who were also suckered into this but now seem to lack the balls to do the right thing and set the records straight.

Whatever happens on Saturday will set the way forward. If the vote is that the award remains then so be it, but that will undermine every other future award issued by them.

Hope that helps

Mike Flynn 19th Oct 2016 16:30

I think the main point I would make regarding the LAA AGM and vote this weekend is that Tracey Curtis Taylor,Boeing and Artemis Investments are on another planet compared to what the LAA represent.

My impression of what I still think of as the PFA are pilots building or repairing the bottom of the flying food chain on a limited budget.

The Spirit of Artemis was big money thrown at an expensive PR stunt that fooled the worlds press.

ak7274 19th Oct 2016 17:10

Ok. I'll tell you what concerns me..... I am a member of the LAA. It appears to me that most of the protagonists aren't.
Some of those could be a jilted boyfriend, an acned youth who spends his spare time trolling or any other internet hero for all I know.
As for you credentials, I don't doubt them, but if you feel so strongly about this matter, why did you not join the LAA so that you could vote?
I don't like being treated like a puppet, especially by people I have no knowledge of.
This morning I knew which way I was going to vote. I don't now.
I resent the implication that the LAA lack balls. They haven't voted yet.

Sam Rutherford 19th Oct 2016 17:34

I'm reminded of a well known quote:

"If what your country is doing seems to you practically and morally wrong, is dissent the highest form of patriotism?"

I'm a member and very firm supporter of both organisations. I believe the awards were mistakenly given, belittling the achievements of previous winners and future recipients.

The Master's Medal previous winners list is particularly clear on the usual level required - and I do not feel (for a great many reasons) that this level was attained by TCT. I feel the same about the Bill Woodhams Trophy.

I don't even need to go into the whole sole/solo debacle - as interesting as it is!

Safe flights, Sam.

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