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-   -   Tracey Curtis-Taylor (Merged threads) (https://www.pprune.org/private-flying/579030-tracey-curtis-taylor-merged-threads.html)

Genghis the Engineer 22nd Oct 2018 12:01

It was confusing enough when we used to have two Whirlybirds !

G

ShyTorque 22nd Oct 2018 13:58


Originally Posted by Genghis the Engineer (Post 10289385)
It was confusing enough when we used to have two Whirlybirds !

G

We didn't, we had Whirlybird and Whirlygig.

Both of them definitely female fliers and I don't think that either would claim to been victims of misogyny, either on this forum or face to face.
But then both are also modest and honest women and have shown themselves able to "walk the walk" as well as "talk the talk", rather than what has been demonstrated in this sad case.

aviator_38 23rd Oct 2018 01:46

Morning folks,

I have not followed the whole LAA proceedings, but was recently sent this audio link, which sort of put things from her point of view.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/p06nkhpr


Cheers

27/09 23rd Oct 2018 05:05


Originally Posted by aviator_38 (Post 10289920)
Morning folks,

I have not followed the whole LAA proceedings, but was recently sent this audio link, which sort of put things from her point of view.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/p06nkhpr


Cheers

Wouldn't it be nice to have the interviewer interview TC along side someone equally as eloquent as TC but with the other side of the story. Now THAT would be an interview worth listening to.

artschool 23rd Oct 2018 07:28


Originally Posted by aviator_38 (Post 10289920)
Morning folks,

I have not followed the whole LAA proceedings, but was recently sent this audio link, which sort of put things from her point of view.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/p06nkhpr


Cheers

about 2 minutes in.
".......and you have always done it in this same Stearman, yes is that correct"
"yes, I had my Boeing Stearman restored in 2012."


I thought that Ewald Gritsch was the owner? am I mistaken?

27/09 23rd Oct 2018 09:54


Originally Posted by artschool (Post 10290047)
about 2 minutes in.
".......and you have always done it in this same Stearman, yes is that correct"
"yes, I had my Boeing Stearman restored in 2012."


I thought that Ewald Gritsch was the owner? am I mistaken?

Just a minor detail. Isn't it?

Checklist Charlie 23rd Oct 2018 10:01


Just a minor detail. Isn't it?
I do believe there is a rather lengthy history of these "minor details"

CC

Katamarino 23rd Oct 2018 10:32

Depends on where the ownership info is coming from.

An N-Reg can't be owned directly by a foreigner, and I believe the Stearman is N-reg. It's entirely possible that she owns it but it's registered through a company that offers registration services for foreigners (maybe Ewald's can, and that's where the "Ewald owns it" story is from).

If you look up my registration for example you don't find my name, you find "Southern Aircraft Consultancy Inc Trustee".

Ebbie 2003 23rd Oct 2018 11:52

Mine is registered with Southern Aircraft Consultancy - they are very good, make having N regards hassle free.

All of the speculation is only possible because of the failure to ventilate this properly - the audio interview is interesting but not searching, no a BBC Hard Talk interview by an interviewer who has been briefed by a good researcher, that would be worth listening to even if it is a bit too late.

This has all the characteristics of something that got just too far out of hand - if it is true, and I don't think anyone has denied it, that Sam Rutherford said "do what you're doing but, don't accept awards for it" then I think the outcome (so far) is equitable.

While we're on the subject of awards, can I have one on behalf of the world's hypertensive diabetic fat blokes for my first post-flight test solo New Jersey to Barbados in my 1976 PA28, VFR no GPS an ting;)

artschool 23rd Oct 2018 12:01


Originally Posted by artschool (Post 10290047)
about 2 minutes in.
".......and you have always done it in this same Stearman, yes is that correct"
"yes, I had my Boeing Stearman restored in 2012."


I thought that Ewald Gritsch was the owner? am I mistaken?

Biplane Expeditions

I am mistaken it does belong to Tracey.

runway30 23rd Oct 2018 14:50


Originally Posted by artschool (Post 10290261)
Biplane Expeditions

I am mistaken it does belong to Tracey.

It does make me wonder why such straight forward statements couldnít have been issued before instead of the fog of contradictions and retractions. I can see one contradiction in Ewaldís statement but as he has been polite enough to provide his email, Iím not going to open a public discussion.

DownWest 23rd Oct 2018 17:45

Lot of fog about.
IIRR the Stearman is N reg and is owned by a Delaware corperation which has 3G as an owner. Is T-CT on that owners list?

Cazalet33 23rd Oct 2018 18:50

https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune....d1d706fac3.jpg


That's odd:



https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune....990b7b8f61.jpg

Jonzarno 23rd Oct 2018 19:36

What that entry doesnít tell you is who owns 3G Classic Aircraft Inc.

As has been discussed here before, N reg aircraft have to be owned by a US entity and it is entirely feasible that Ms Curtis Taylor bought the company that used to own the aircraft and is thus the beneficial owner of that aircraft.

I stress: I donít know either way.

Mike Flynn 23rd Oct 2018 19:37

Owner and operator are not the same.

However Bird in a Biplane is a UK limited company.

If the company folded the aircraft is not part of the assets.

This is quite normal in aircraft leasing which appears to be the case here.

The cost of leasing can also be offset against profits.



S205-18F 23rd Oct 2018 21:19

Her Gritch says she owns the Stearman but it would appear that 3G Classic Aviation Inc. owns it which is Her Gritchs company weird. Also did she collide with an R44 at Goodwood in August 2015? seems her accident record isnt a great one then.
John.

Katamarino 23rd Oct 2018 21:24

It's 100% possible for her to own it. I registered my old airplane in my mechanics name as he is American, I'm not, and I trust him. It was still mine.

Either way, even if Tracey didn't own it, who really cares? I spent 4 months flying round darkest Africa with a doctor providing medical training, and neither of us owned the airplane (it was leased). Didn't make any difference to what we did.

runway30 23rd Oct 2018 22:05

I don’t know who is correct but we have all seen an unequivocal statement from Ewald that TCT is the owner. If you are going to suggest otherwise I think you should write to Ewald and ask him if he wishes to clarify the contradiction.

HolyMoley 24th Oct 2018 06:45

I wish I could afford to buy a Stearman and have it restored.

Cazalet33 24th Oct 2018 08:02


Originally Posted by artschool (Post 10290261)

I am mistaken it does belong to Tracey.

The official documentation may suggest that you are not mistaken, Art.

Here's the official position of N-56200, as recorded by the FAA at the time of the Winslow crackup:

https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune....adffeeb940.jpg



Here's the official position of BIAP, as recorded by Companies House:

https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune....3f7d038f5b.jpg

(-ve figures are bracketed; +ve figures are not)


The tangible asset valuation appears to be that of her unairworthy Ryan which she really does own.

Ewald's airworthy Stearman, which is in magnificent condition, would be worth a lot more than that.

Here's the latest FAA registry statement, as of midnight EDT yesterday, ie about five hours ago:
https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune....46c223dee9.jpg

S205-18F 24th Oct 2018 10:31

Is ct-c part of 3G classic aviation inc. ?

Jonzarno 24th Oct 2018 10:45

As I wrote about this above: there is no reason why Ms Curtis-Taylor should not be the owner of the US company that holds the registration of the Stearman.

I am not saying that this is definitely the case but, if Herr Gritsch sold her an N Reg plane that is officially held by that company, there is no reason whatever why she would need to change the company name, nor make it a subsidiary of her UK company.


hoodie 24th Oct 2018 11:00

Where is this thread going? What do people want to happen now?

I'm pretty uncomfortable with it. It now appears simply a vehicle to rehash previous info and continue to put the boot in following the LAA vote.

ak7274 24th Oct 2018 12:19

I agree with hoodie. No point in kicking someone when they are down.
The only thing I don't understand is why Ewald didn't publish his statement when needed by TCT.
Not only should Tracey let it go, so should we, unless it rears It's ugly head once again.

Pilot DAR 24th Oct 2018 12:52

So we're done with investigation into the ownership of the Stearman. If Ms. Curtis-Taylor makes a public statement worthy of discussion here, we'll consider that, otherwise, let's see what other aviation topics are out there for discussion......

runway30 24th Oct 2018 13:38

This is part of Ewald’s statement

“Yes, Tracey Curtis Taylor was the sole pilot on all her expedition flights. She has more than enough flight-experience as well as piloting and navigational skills to perform all of these flights on her own.”

Yet on the Wilmslow incident report Ewald is listed as “Other flight crew” and seems to be logging the flight time, indeed he had 410 hours on type where he wasn’t PIC.

I also notice that TCT gave her occupation as ‘Pilot’. I can’t think of another occasion I’ve seen someone who isn’t employed as a pilot describe it as their occupation.

Ebbie 2003 24th Oct 2018 13:46

For clarity on the trust thing for those who have likely not used one.

The beneficial owner of the airplane - what we would consider the person who owns it (paid for it) is separate from the trust company which is so far as the FAA is concerned is the "owner".

So the trust company is the one that gets it in the neck if there is something wrong.

Likewise, the trust company can raise a mortgage against the beneficial owner's airplane.

So, yup you have to trust them (do like a nice pun!

What this means is that there is no beastie hiding in the corner simply because Tracey does not have shares or ownership of 3G, the trust company - I have my airplane with Southern Aircraft Consultancy - I do not own that company nor do I have shares in it, I am (or more accurately my firm is) simply their client.

There are lots of red herrings around this frankly if she had flown someone else's airplane on the trips it would not have diminished the achievement the whole thing was about was she in the airplane and navigating a la 1930 stylie - seems to have rolled to a close unless/until someone comes up with the money to fund the lawyers - I would think there is little benefit to anyone in doing that.

Long distance trips are nothing special - I've done some myself (some 2,000+ miles) and it is a lot easier following the magenta line than older nav especiall over water - the most important things is a reliable airplane and lots and lots of money - so if you can raise the money you can go, if you can't then you can't - if you go on the cheap now that is impressive - building a career on the back of it is not intrinsically "evil" we live in a media driven world and so the moderately photogenic are always going to get publicity etc. Now us fat hypertensive diabetic fat blokes we gets nuffink! I would be happy to do Barbados to UK solo if someone can get BurgerKing to pay for it (no MacDonalds or KFC - we do have to keep up standards).

runway30 24th Oct 2018 14:26

The problem is when you can’t tell the difference between spin and deception. Spin is just putting your own interpretation on the facts, when you start changing the facts it is deception. Some people think that embellishments to your cv. is ok. It isn’t, even if you are a perfect employee, you have obtained money by deception. Some of the statements on TCT’s website, if they were used to solicit money to fund her expeditions, would in my view cause her problems if someone wanted to complain. They aren’t complaining so I guess that is where it ends.

airpolice 24th Oct 2018 14:49


Originally Posted by runway30 (Post 10291306)
They arenít complaining so I guess that is where it ends.

No, that is just where it stops, for now.

Where it ends, is when she has been through the court process and the public see the lies being exposed.

Sam Rutherford 24th Oct 2018 15:01

Blimey, calm down!

She claimed to have done something that she hadn't done. She's not claiming it any more (even if a full admission is still absent).

It's time to move on.

Pilot DAR 24th Oct 2018 15:22

Sam is right. New information only. I'd rather not have to close the thread, but I'm getting close....

funfly 24th Oct 2018 15:44

Close the thread, you've got what you wanted.
This lady flew a lot, as did many other ladies (I used to be an Associate member of the British Women's Pilots Association, there were plenty of worthy ladies there) Tracy is obviously a bit of a boaster and claimed she went solo when she seems not to have done. Dug herself in a bit of a hole actually.
Time to let it go now folks, doesn't do you any credit to kick the dog when she is down.

airpolice 24th Oct 2018 16:05

This topic was supposed to be about her claims and Sam's contrary position, given his inside knowledge of the facts. I agree that we should only be scratching at new itchy bits, but each week seems to bring evidence of the continuing talks and pre-launch book & movie press appearances. Far from being down, she's riding a wave of public appearances with nobody allowed to question the validity, or reasonableness of her claims.

I'm not the one who keeps getting Lawyers to threaten court action. Tracey is behind the drive to go to court, or to at least suggest going there.

Given her stubborn refusal to answer simple questions, I see court as the only place that anyone can get the truth. She's got to avoid that because of the difficult questions which will centre not on the Solo aspect, but the standard of airmanship that she has spoken about and demonstrated. Imagine her having to answer the questions in court, instead of just calling everyone a women hating old man. Did she actually fly just a few feet from a cliff face, or just say that she did? Was she authorised to fly th eAN2, or did she just say that she was? Did she buzz the Whales or just say that she did? Has she got as much experience in flying the Stearman as anyone else in the world, or is that just something that she says? Did the aircraft need the entire runway at Winslow to get to 50 feet agl, or did she just say that it did? Was the fuel contaminated or is that just something that she said? Is she allowed to wear RAF Wings or...

I'm sure you can see her dilemma with the questions. This has long passed the solo point, and once Ewald had admitted to being in that seat for most of the time, the point was surely accepted by anyone with half a clue. She can't deny saying it, after the trip, because we have all seen the Herne Bay video. So she explained that as slip of the tongue.

The other stuff is harder to wriggle out of. Did she buzz the Whales? She can't deny it, unless she wants to open the door to all the rest of her story being a lie. She can't admit it and still expect to be considered a role model for aspiring Pilots.

Unless a victim comes forward, there is no real prospect of a criminal charge. I'm not sure why you think that there needs to be.

clareprop 24th Oct 2018 16:28

She's a liar. We know it she knows it.
To take her to civil court, you would need to be an aggrieved party, damaged by her claims.
In the absence of anyone else, only Sam and Mike seem to come close. If they feel they can live with it then maybe members of pprune should do as well. If the LAA are content to accept her description of them as misogynistic old men , that is also their choice.
I suggest we keep our powder dry for future films and books.....

airpolice 24th Oct 2018 16:30

Clare, nobody is going to court.

She's the only one in a position to start that, and it would be a disaster so she can't.

It's a pity the LAA didn't see that and just ignore her lawyers.


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