Rubbish radio calls.
 

I'm hearing more and more iffy R/T. Could this be down to the fact that training can now be given at unlicensed airfields? Or is there some other reason?

Training at unlicensed Airfields shouldn't be an issue. There is are 2 tests to pass, 1 Theory and 1 Practical.
Perhaps Pilots just don't practise RT enough.
Having heard thee on't owd wireless Mac, I do know what tha' means.
;)

Totally agree. Brevity seems to have gone out of the window, as does common sense.


The last thing anyone needs when joining an extremely busy circuit is to have the radio blocked by some lengthy discourse from an aircraft passing 10 miles abeam- all too common now.

I'd only call in passing if I thought the radio operator sounded lonely!

Which sort of makes the case for a (radar supported) FIS over a larger area eliminating the need for aircraft to contact A/G stations when passing by, requesting a basic service....

Thats not the point it was always like that not a recent thing.
A lot has to do with experience and nervousness. you get the PPL who talks very slowly often giving their life story rather than being snappy, precise with only the relevant detail.

Its strange how you can almost tell the experience of a pilot by the radio calls and confidence and may I add authority the caller gives when making those calls.

Too many are in awe of the units they are talking to.

I can remember crossing Birmingham and ATC gave one clearance to one guy who sounded very unsure and convoluted and basically kept him well clear while another was given a clearance through the zone which they then updated to IFR.

You only have to fly IFR through London to see how incredibly busy ATC are and how short and snappy the radio calls are and have to be from professional pilots to realise the huge difference

So be short precise snappy and authoritative in those calls especially if you want to be taken seriously

You do not get a Basic Service from an A/G unit - it is not, by definition, an ATS unit.

Quite so!

Be brief

Be professional

Do not treat the radio as a primary flight control.

It's the safety aspect of some of the calls which concerns me most.
Primarily in the vicinity of the airfield.


'Downwind', with no reference to which runway or circuit direction.


'Base leg', as opposed to 'Right base 02' or whatever.


Pilots trundling onto a taxyway and announcing that they're 'Backtracking to the hold', when they clearly aren't. Etc.

Its all them ruddy microlighters who don't bother to get a radio licence and haven't a clue what they're doing :)

Now now Heston, we can't expect them to talk a load of ****e with their mates on the microlight "party chat frequency" about where there going for a pint when they land AND make normal position and transition request calls on those pesky ATC frequencies can we?

? - if unspecified doesn't

"Downwind" mean "for the active runway in the published circuit direction for that runway"

"Base" mean "for the active runway in the published circuit direction for that runway"

If I'm doing something non-standard I'll put in the runway or direction but otherwise why clutter up airtime?

This^

Try flying at a mil airfield, no nonsense and to the point.

If R/T level of quality has dropped due to the permission for training at non-licensed fields, it cannot have to do with microlighters - they were well clear of that kind of nonsense since day one.

Not that I take all that very serious - weather is poor for flying, at least here, so one must expect the usual lot of fools at the bar. And the associated level of discussion.

I've heard FISOs using atrocious R/T procedures - using pilots names instead of a/c callsigns, clipping transmissions, not using callsigns (e.g. A/c "XXX downwind", FISO "...port final"). At airfields where student pilots are operating, R/T phraseology and procedures should be "by the book".

"? - if unspecified doesn't

"Downwind" mean "for the active runway in the published circuit direction for that runway"

"Base" mean "for the active runway in the published circuit direction for that runway"

If I'm doing something non-standard I'll put in the runway or direction but otherwise why clutter up airtime? "

Never flown to or from an airfield with 'Circuits. Variable'?
With no-one manning the radio.

Not that I recall, but in such a case I would realise that there is no concept of "active runway" and no concept of "published direction" and would give more detail. (But not of course "left", as that's the ultimate default circuit direction.)

HD, I know what you mean and could not agree more!

Also the willy waving which those with TCAS indulge in jamming up the airwaves at an airfield with A/G - I feel like squawking standby and bouncing them to make the point that non transponder a/c won't show on TCAS!

Gertrude am with you all the way there and the last time I checked the CAP on RT does not specify that you have to nominate the runway or circuit direction when making position reports in the circuit.

Shaggy, am going to pinch that one - thanks!

In my experience the light GA scene in the UK was always a bit "Tally ho, roger, over & out" Not sure why, maybe watching too much "Dambusters/ 633 squadron" etc. etc....

Authoritarian A/G units are one of my favourite hates.

This is all very well at simple airfields.
I did my training at Lanseria in South Africa in the 1970s.
Until last year they had 2 runways, 06L24R (10,000ft) and 06R24L(3500ft).
All light aircraft used the South circuit, takeoff from 06L then call "Right downwind for 06R" if doing touch&go practice or "Right downwind for 06L" when landing for a full stop. The tower needed to be paying serious attention on days when the military were using the LH circuit and passenger jets were also arriving calling final for 06L from 5 miles out.
Proper radio procedure was essential, especially paying attention to the tower and NEVER turning onto base leg without permission.

On a recent trip after departure tower cleared me to climb and contact terminal. This is how it went ( note it was a not very busy mid week afternoon)

Me: XX terminal Grumman AA1 ABCD

Terminal: Hi (my first name), Yah going to XX

Me: Yup, five point five please

Terminal: BCD cleared to XX at Five thousand Five hundred

:ok:

The chaps who are radio shy tend to avoid CAS altogether. In my experience, microlighters who do talk on the radio seem to be generally more concise than some other GA types. The number of times I've been waiting to make a call while some eejit uhms and aahs his way through his life story...:rolleyes: Good thing I fly at 50kts!

BPF... sounds like a lot of professionalism.....

Like it.:):ok:. My pet hate is continuous use by atco's of the word, Hectopascal, it is unnecessary and ridiculous. I refuse to say it, Niner Niner six is all anyone will get from me ;)

Remind me never, ever to get in an aeroplane with you.

I agree ! Got the job done with minimum words, had a nice human touch and finished with a complete and by the book correct clearance to me.

The best part ? It winds up all the stuffed shirts on pprune who revel in discussing the most arcane of radio trivia in a manner that gives pedantry a bad name :E

Final vs Finals, people actually care about that enough to have a whole thread devoted to it ? Really ? :rolleyes:

You're hardly likely to :ok:

Couldn't care less whether it's final or finals.
Just don't use "turning final" at a civvie airfield. It confuses the hell out of the military visitors.

My .0001 pounds sterling on how to use the radio

1) Don't drop the airplane to fly the radio. Fly the airplane first even if that involves a delay to make a radio call or respond to one

2) The purpose of aviation radio calls is to convey information. Better is the enemy of good enough. Getting all worried about saying exactly the right thing ( whatever that is given the range of opinions on what constitutes the "right" thing to say :rolleyes:) is self defeating. If you don't know the exact format say what you want or what you are doing in plane errrrrr plain English.

3) The main type of use of radio failures I see is pushing the mike button then trying to think about what to say. This results in a transmission that starts with a long UMMMMMMMM or ERRRRRRRR and then a mad jumble of words. Engage the brain before the PTT !

4) If you get stuck mid way through the transmission get off the mike rather than using up airtime trying to remember what to say

5) All radio calls have the same format.

-Who: You are transmitting to
-Who: You are ( ie your call sign)
-Where: You are
-What: You want or what you are going to do.

Hectopascals: Nobody likes saying it echo romeo, but while the CAA insist on it I'm afraid pilots, controllers, FISOs and A/G operators have to, however I understand an abbreviation is being considered.
Final: for a military pilot is the point where they commence their final turn before lining up with the runway; this can be at the end of the downwind leg for fast jets.(called a Standard NATO pattern circuit).

Like millibars?

I'm using hectobars. I've yet to have the readback corrected.:hmm:


Just wondering why I'm still being allowed to use Bar for my tyres, dive cylinders, etc. Why pick on pilots?

Effective RT: Maximum information in minimum words. Done well, it's an art form. Not everyone is an artist.

I don't want to turn this into Jurassic Park: Rise of the Pendantosaurus, but that's not always correct either. People just need to read The Adventures of G-ABCD and BigJet 123, and wonder no longer.

Echo Romeo wrote: Back in 1976 I was at RAF Honington and was surprised, one dark, wet night, by the noise of a low-flying KC-135 on its way into Mildenhall.

It turned out he'd been passed 'niner eight seven' as the QNH, which he took to mean 29.87 inHg, the US standard. In fact the QNH was 987 mb, so he was about 700 ft lower than he thought he was......:(

Simple, concise RT is fine. But 'wannabe DJs' are not. "Yo bud, I'm at five point five and inbound ya field...". Is that 5500 ft or 5.5 DME?

BEagle Well said, sir. I have heard the inches/millibars (in my day) confusion with American crews many times.

Lakenheath are pretty good at transmitting hPa or inches Hg when transmitting to GA or mil: they give both readouts in full always now:

Tx to mil comes over VHF as well but we don't hear replies.

Must've had an incident at Honington in the past that scared them.:rolleyes:

Cusco