Rough reception at Popham!
 

I flew my little home-build over to Popham on Sunday for a cup of tea and chat with the boys, I did all the usual things that I've been doing for the past 25 years when I plan to visit another field, ring for PPR, study the pattern , frequency, joining procedure, make sure nothings changed.
I called up and obtain the details and join on the base leg, on reporting established I'm told "who are you? I've never heared of you" I was a little surprised as I'd passed my details only minutes before, but I relayed them again. I was then issued with a hold-nothing-back b******ng, over the airwaves , by the time it finished I was on final! I reported "final" but heared nothing back, a stoney silence, I could see the wind sock and as I didn't need a clearance (its an air/ground ATSU at Popham) I landed, only for more of the same when I entered the club house to pay my landing fee and sign in.
I was also accused of cutting up another aircraft in the circuit, which was complete rubbish, I was starting to wonder if this was some sort of set up and I was being filmed, but sadly it wasn't. This numpty was in deadly earnest.
Give the wrong guy a clip board and you create another Stalin, well thankfully my aircraft isn't based there so I've no reason to go back, and I wont, its a real shame, its a lovely little field that Dick Richardson has built up since the crazy days of Jim Espin, but if the fee-paying public are treated like this then it wont be long before it's just another ghost station. Unless you have the hide of a rhino -- Avoid--

Write a chirp on it.

Seems to be either the same perosn or there have been a spate of less that satisfactory goings on by FISO's at certain airfields.

Seems like its a growing problem which needs nipped in the bud.

http://www.pprune.org/atc-issues/503...about-atc.html

Just tell him to F off.

I think you should keep going and keep telling him to F off too.

P.S. Not on the radio though.

A great pity. My wife and i spent many happy hours at Popham and it seems that one fool is doing the place a terrible diservice.

Definitely complain. I would even suggest you consider a MOR - or the voluntary version - link below:

Accident and Occurrence Reporting | Aircraft | Operations and Safety

Popham uses and A/G (air/ground) facility and is NOT FISO equipped (to my knowledge). Having some guy reprimanding you on the radio while you are joining the circuit is unacceptable, and I hope you told him so. R/T transmissions are supposed to be strictly operational.

If for any reason they were not able to accept you, they should have requested (and I mean requested as that is all they are allowed to do) for you to remain clear of the circuit / standby.

I've flown in/out of Popham many a time - using a/c based there and not, and have on more than one occasion requested joining instructions / PPR over the Radio from 10 mins out. This did not create an issue.

I would also suggest you email the airfield operator complaining about the individual in question. B*****king you on the air while you're configuring your a/c in the circuit is borderline dangerous and distracting and there's no room for idiots like that. Popham is not a licensed airfield and its a shame that such people address incoming traffic as if they were approaching a major class D aerodrome!

What makes this even more sad is that the field itself is lovely and lots of the folks there are equally as nice.

Good luck and don't let this incident slip through the net!

So run that by me again.

You phoned for PPR, gave an ETA, studied the pattern, conformed to the circuit direction and joined in a normal way and landed as you were entitled to.

In amongst that you got shouted at on the A/G frequency and again after landing when you got in the clubhouse.

So when you patiently explained per para 2; what was the rant about ? and the response ?

Were any of "the boys" present .. and what did they say / do ?

And, if you DID cut anybody up, did they themselves make themselves
known to you? I concur with the earlier post to tell him where to go...

This is the problem with letting 'amateurs' loose on the radio. I would question whether the radio operator concerned even has a Certificate of Competence; I'm sure none of the people I've examined for them would not normally act like this.
Many people are STILL under the mistaken impression an FRTOL permits you to do A/G which it doesn't, you must still take the exam with an authorised examiner, and those holding FISO (Aerodrome) or ATC Licences with ADV/ADI ratings must still hold an A/G C of C also, usually by just applying and giving your licence number. Regretfully the issue of the AGCS Certificate of Competence is no longer free; wef last October it wil cost you (£35 I think).

Which numpty was it?

"ATC" Information

If it's the top one, then it looks like no apology would be forthcoming..

Oxo, how can you tell from his picture?

Is it cos he's a baldy?!

Well that would of course contribute.. but no.

It's because he seems to be the head honcho there and the website is his copyright (see at the bottom of the page)

If it is 'the top one' on the list, why not email him through the website, providing him the opportunity to explain what he thought it was you'd done, rather than publicly lambast him on here.

Are you sure you didn't cut someone up?

Thread drift

Thats a really cool ICON. How did you get that on.....:confused:

Make a formal complaint.

There was a string of similar situations at Cumbernauld, just about all of us complained, the guy no longer works there and we are all safer as a result of that.

Maxred,

Simple http://c20xe.co.uk/board/images/smile/facepalm.gif

It's an image from another website:-

http://c20xe.co.uk/board/images/smile/facepalm.gif

Given the way many pilots - not ALL rotary, but they are the worst - have no clue what to do with the airfield information they are given, whether it's by an A-G or by other aircraft in the circuit, and then just blunder into the circuit from any direction at any height with not a thought about anyone else, I doubt that your statement is true.

There's a happy medium to be found. In my view it has to include conformity with Rules 12 and 13 of the Rules of the Air.

NS

The easy way is to right click it, then click copy, add it to your store of photos then upload it to somewhere like Photo Bouquet from whence you will be able to post it here. :ok:

So, just to clarify...

Regardless of whether you telephoned ahead or not, am I right in my understanding that your first RT call was on Base leg?

I don't think so. It looks like he called up first, then joined base leg then called "Established base" then got a bollicking. Lets not pick holes in the pilot with "Are you sure?" It looks like to me he did all he could.

If complaining, the best thing to do would be to complain to Dick Richardson. He is thoruoughly pro-aviation, will do just about anything to ensure his customers are safe and happy, and is very good at keeping Popham on an even keel.

P

My first call was made at approx 10 NM out, there were about four aircraft in the circuit and my feeling was that there was a misunderstanding or confusion on the part of the A/G operator as to who was asking for 'airfield details'- which I read back along with the QFE and informed him, and everyone else in the circuit how I intended to join. The next call was made when I established on base leg. That was the one that got the "who are you, never heared of you" retort.
All my calls were in acordance with CAP 413, and until I was on base leg, I was quite happy that everything was normal, I'm a CAA R/T examiner (with just short of 10,000 hrs in various different disciplines) so I've got a reasonable handle on how it should be conducted.
On the subject of the picture "oxo", yes, it was indeed the top one.
Someone mentioned the 'cut up traffic' this was an Air Camper that was about half a mile behind me and is even slower than my Kitfox, so there was no question of any conflict. I understand from the Boys that the afore mentioned Numpty is a fan of this type and it therefore would have priority. No mention of it in the Notams though..

I am disgusted reading your post.

Apart from the rudeness, there is a safety issue here.

You are not doubt an experienced pilot in this type of environment. However the pilot could have just as easily been a very inexperienced pilot. This could have caused a distraction, which possibly could have triggered a chain of events that led to an accident.

A thick skin in most cases, comes with experience and not normally at the beginning of the lifelong learning curve.

oscarzulu...

On the basis of your last post, matey hasn't got a leg to stand on. He's an A/G operator which to me means that whatever transmissions are made "air-to-air" are for his reference ONLY...he has no authority whatsoever to enforce or influence them (correct me if I'm wrong...with respect to your RT examiner knowledge). The fact that you joined base (and not overhead or whatever the procedure is at Popham) is of no legal consequence to him either (or anyone else on the ground).

This kind of unprofessional, unwelcoming and somewhat arrogant behaviour that you received really incenses me and puts people off visiting new airfields. Such places then become insular little "redneck" communities where if you're "not in, you're not in". Popham of all places shouldn't end up like that as it has too much to offer.

Hopefully the Popham regulars (even management) are reading this. :ugh:

If I have read this correctly (and there is every chance that I might not have done!), the bit that troubles me, with all respect to OZ and my friend CT, is reading about a ∿10,000 hr CAA examiner joining directly on a base leg into an uncontrolled and busy circuit. After 46 years in the biz I have noticed that such a join is likely to upset someone, either up there or down here!

Joining Base is fairly common. If the right calls are made and you give way to circuit traffic there is absolutely nothing wrong with it.

Talkdownman- I tend to agree with you up to a point, but joining overhead in these days of routine noise complaints from the locals, especially on a fine Sunday is something I try to avoid, always assuming its safe to do so, I think that its far better to get down with the minimum time droning around in the vicinity, hence the base leg join. My point wasn't that I never do anything wrong, but that errors, or peceived errors for that matter, shouldn't be dealt with by a blast over the airwaves whilst turning onto final approach.

I'm now confused by why happened as what OZ says in his last couple of posts is not the same as he wrote in his first.

In your 'senior' flying role that you have clearly outlined, I'm rather perplexed as to why you haven't called to speak to CT about this one-to-one before publicly writing here. Had you done that, you'd have no only been briefed as to how your joining actions weren't suitable (and subsequently annoyed him), and you'd also have done the more gentlemanly thing.

PS He likes Kitfoxes as much as he likes Aircampers so that was a weak stab.

Thanks oxo and DX. Cool little icon.

Right, I am now a bit perplexed and am tending to side with Monocock.

Why not call him prior to a rant on Proon??

Where was your first call made and what did you ask?

If circuit is active, it can be a PITA if someone relatively unannounced blunders in on base.

You state you did not want to upset the NIMBYS by put putting about??
however you appear to have now upset almost everyone else.

More to this methinks

That's fine if giving way / conforming with the traffic pattern is executed in a reasonable manner. Many A/G operators and FISOs have observed conflicts when pilots attempt to join a busy traffic pattern in an unreasonable manner and consequently become concerned about the wisdom of direct joins. Whatever, a rebuke over the air or in public on the ground is inexcusable.

Agreed that any bollocking or unwarranted chatter is inexcusable. No way should it ever happen.

Sorry I appear to have missed the bit where Oscar Zulu states he called 10 miles out.

In that case, suggest you call him, discuss it thoroughly, ask for an apology, and let us know what happens next.

Does anyone know if the perpetrator is actually reading this??

Popham website:

I don't know the circumstances, but I do know the A/G operator. I would suggest you give him a call OZ, as he is also a reasonably experienced aviator and I am sure he would welcome the feedback directly. There is never a reason for an 'ear bending' on the radio, although I think it is reasonable to provide guidance and training once you're in the clubhouse if you have not followed the published procedures.

Popham is a great place for all types of GA; your experience there is not the experience many of us have received when visiting Popham.

ifitaint...

I am not perplexed in the slightest. I think that I already have digested and have a reasonable insight and handle on what the OP and others have already said.

Why call a numpty for an apology? What chances do you honestly think that you will achieve in receiving one?

Thanks for the warning :ok:

If he ever lambasters me on the radio over the airwaves, he is in for a shock upon landing.

Any aggressive tone on the radio is inappropriate. That said, the thing that always amazes me about screamers on the radio is their apparent lack of awareness that the recipient might decide to resolve the issue with a baseball bat, on the ground. There's a lot of different kinds of people out there, and not all of them are predisposed to prissy verbal interchanges. It's not good to make assumptions about who you're screaming at, when you can't see them.

Some people just don't have a clue. I used to think it was a genetic thing, but now I'm convinced it's all about junk food and poor education. :E

PS If he "lambasters" you, what'll that mean? :rolleyes:

It'll mean that his mike will go where the sun does not shine :yuk:

You are not related to the said gentleman by any chance ? He had a similar condescending nature about him as well from what others have said here :rolleyes:

Is it not something to do with URANUS........

Richard you beat me too it by 1 minute:ok:

Nope. Just been reading this particular forum long enough to know when someone is just trying to stir up trouble, and isn't man enough to deal with it in a decent way. :ok:

Monocock- After I landed I had an arguement with the man concerned that solved nothing, I was left with the choice of continueing untill someone got punched in the face, or sorting it out with a third party, I went into Dick's office but he wasn't there. So I sat down and had a cup of tea and thought it over. I've been thinking it over ever since, and I still feel that it was completely wrong to blast someone over the radio, its unprofessional at best, sure, if there's a urgent need (in a different situation) to vector an aircraft out of the way then I can accept you might have to let a pilot know they're in the wrong, but this is an A/G station, it is there purely to inform traffic of information such as runway in use and the like, it's not Air traffic Control. I think the man concerned has lost sight of this.

Oscar Zulu

I read what you say.

I've also just read a very balanced email from the person you've accused of being out of order. He's given a very fair and balanced account of what happened. I will not disclose his account of the events, as he plans to do so himself. All I'd say is, when you're in a hole.....

You might want to fill in a few of the gaps in the story.....