If Carlsberg made a flying Club
 

Have the uneasy task of recently acquiring a small flying club which I really genuinely want to develop into something special. I DONT expect to make any money out of it, but if it could break even that would be good. More importantly I want it to be a GOOD, SAFE, and FUN place to be and learn.

I was just wondering with the exception of free fuel, free flying, blonde 25 year olds pumping your fuel, free beer and spitfires for hire, what do people think are the important things to get right and what are the ingredients to a really good flying school/ club.

There are many good schools and clubs- what would make them really good???

Safe and reliable aeroplanes to fly. On line booking system with clear and prompt customer service and feedback.

A knowledgeable CFI who can mentor and explain issues surrounding exams, and flying issues.

Warm and welcoming club atmosphere, with a healthy and vibrant social scene.

The financial structure, with some thought, can be structured to suit all budgets and cash flow restrictions.

Land away cards, that club members can be pay a monthly fee and get concession landings at other airfields - joined up thinking

Probably loads more............:hmm:

If possible offer something different to the C152/172 and PA-28. The future in PPL training has to be Rotax powered two seaters (Eurostar,AT-3 etc) that burn about 3gph of MOGAS.

A study area with wi-fi access, flight planning facilities and decent tea and coffee.

Minimal bureaucracy

Fun flying - don't even think about having a fleet of sheds.

Social scene

Something that wife and child can do whilst husband strokes his ego.

Don't fall into the 'maximum footfall' trap. Treat your members as members and not customers.

Communicate.

Ultimate High - but with a bar in the evening!:8

Carlsberg have already made a flying club.

It's called White Waltham.

(Just a shame that the runways were made by Watneys.) :}

I would like to see a selection of aircraft for training and rental, from cheap Rotax to full IFR, also a nice variety of owned aircraft for PPL trainees and others to aspire to. Aerobatics training with a Super Decathlon and Pitts S2 for training/hire.

Couple that with a main and crosswind hard runway, grass strips alongside for those that prefer. Maintenance companies on site, along with interesting restoration companies rebuilding something like Hurricanes or Spitfires. A good bar and restaurant with excellent food.

Surely not much to ask? :)

This is probably the best thing you could do. If all you have are spam-cans then people will regard you as just a school like any other and not a club worth attending for fun. Even a Piper Cub, or a tailwheel Cessna 120 would be something different, and these don't cost a lot to buy. (I read something about Stampe's going on to LAA permits just recently which might make them affordable. That's something I know I'd really like to fly)

This will be hard to get right for everyone, but things like an occasional barbeque, or a guest speaker, or even something like a flying navigation race would get members more involved.

Other things:

• A club membership deal that includes home landings and maybe circuits.
• A fly-out group with a yearly schedule (even if half of it gets cancelled)
• A decent receptionist that answers the phone (maybe a job for a blonde 25 yr old ;))
• Online booking
• Fuel cards for a self-service pump
• Equipment hire (parachutes, ELTs, life raft etc.)

EDIT: If you are thinking about commercial training... http://www.pprune.org/jet-blast/4547...l-manuals.html

some really good ideas guys- please keep them coming:ok:

I'd like to second (or third) the idea of more 2-seater light aircraft, like the eurostar etc. Not sure which of these you can legally learn on as a light aircraft, rather than microlight, but from all the people I talk to, taking more than 1 other person up is not as common as all that, and the new breed of rotax planes are comfy, fairly fast, and much cheaper on fuel.

Also, comfy rest area, tea and coffee (not a machine, please) and wifi.

And as for a social, get some members involved in running it. If you try to do it all yourself, not only will you get knackered, but also it will only have your flavour to it.

When I was looking for somewhere to learn, places like damyns hall, exodus, booker seemed far more attractive than those airfields where the main training organisation was cabair, and anything else ran out a small shack that was damp and smelled of wee!

Finally, make your presence online, make it good, and keep it changing (diaries, events, student blogs, instructor comments). A lot of the social interaction that starts online can end up in a club, but if you dont have the online presence, you don't attract the browsers (ha ha!)

Good luck, and tell us more about it. Oxford is near enough for me to visit once in a while! (or more, when I get a license :-)

IPZ

oh, and here is one last thought, from another thread (thanks to madjock).

Why not allow customers to learn, and give them the option of buying in to a syndicate plane, and then only paying for lessons (wet per hour rate is their responsibility). Several clubs are now doing it, and it gives a real sense of ownership, and can often make the learning process cheaper.

It may also expand your possible list of planes. I seem to recall something about it being okay to learn in certain non CofA planes as long as you part own it (but I cant remember any of the details!)

Err, it's August 1st, not April 1st!

Unless you have a triple barrelled surname (and skin like a rhino if you don't), I think there are more human places to visit!!!

Perhaps more a case of, if "Bollinger made an airfield" for that one!!

Yes, but that then means they cannot be rented out:rolleyes:

What if it was a club syndicate where everyone owns 0.1%?

AFAIK, max no of shareholders is 6 for some reason or other. I could be (and probably am) wrong.

Nah, WW is lovely! Carlesberg wouldn't have a clue how create it. ;)

A company that pushes a cold fizzy drink (cold so you can't taste it - which is perhaps as well), that is inert and dead and made in a chemical plant, that's so bad it needs a massive advertising campaign to shift it, when good stuff like Copper Dragon or London Pride is available, would produce something along the lines of that hellhole, Heathrow T3 rather than the delightful WW.

Ha ha! Which leads to the question: which brand of alcohol best describes your airfield?

I think you will find max is 20 - if you go over this you are renting out and it needs to be Public Transport, so again, not LAA.

Please critique the plan; This is where I am with it. This is NOT about advertising the club so Im not saying where it is. It is about really genuinely trying to provide what you guys want.

This is where I am upto and what is already in place;

a) Fleet; 2 x PA38s (one IFR), 2 x PA28s (one full glass cockpit and airways).
1 x C150 Aerobat. 1 x C150 normal. 1 x Grob 109 motorglider
2 x Slingsby Venture ( cheap two seater flying available at £60/hr)
1 x Condor for tailwheel- more interesting hire.

Not doing twins


b) No yellow jackets
c) Internet for WIFI for clubhouse ordered today
d) New coffee machine ordered for good coffee ordered today to replace cheap nasty coffee we currently have.
e) Club members already get free base landings
f) Got big leather sofas in clubhouse, repainted it and got new carpets down.
g) As soon as WIFI arrives will set up flight planning/ weather etc
h) Already arranged first BBQ and fly out together and have three more fly outs planned before Christmas.
i) Doing a dawn patrol against another local airfield.
j) CFI has 30 years plus experience as is an examiner. Also have an IR examiner on staff.
k) Have installed snacks (crisps, chocolates and drinks etc- all at 50p each)
l) Free donuts on a saturday morning.
m) Have started selling oil and pilot supplies.
n) Allowing pupils to book a whole day and a single aircraft and instructor on a one to one basis.
o) HOOK NORTON BEER served in bar.






Will need to sort online booking. Still not got the blonde. Any ideas please for online booking systems?

What am I missing?

steakandchips...

I am not in the Isle of Mud but your plan looks like it is heading in the right direction, you did ask for feedback though...

1. Friday night members draw
Draw a members number from a hat and if they're there they win 10 Quid. If not it goes into the 'kitty' for next week and go again until the money is won.

2. Sucker a member in to run / organise a few events. You have a BBQ, but what about a pub quiz? Have something everyone can enjoy and even make it aviation related. A good bit of fun for a spot prize would be for each person to submit an entry for completion to the sentence, "There I was and nothing on the clock but...." for some fun reading.

3. Newsletter - online and printed. Some people don't take their IPAD to the shi77er. But if you have updates like,
"This month we have a flying competition, winner gets 0.00001% share in the coffee machine" or something similar people will come and fly

4. Run a flying competition
If you want details on planning and running these I have a fair bit of experience, PM me. There are several types which you can encourage people to fly - again it is about the flying not about money - but more flying keeps the flying cheaper and the club existing

5. Have a 'bring the family' event. Get wife/husband/girlfriend/child up in a plane with an instructor at a reduced rate to get them to see what it's like. Get a jumping castle or something for the kids if you have members with small ones.

6. Members are friends and not customers as has been mentioned previously. Get everyone involved in running, organising and taking part all the above - it creates a sense of kinship and pride in their club

7. Food - food should be available and good. Good does not mean fancy

8. Make it about they flying.

Best of luck and feel free to PM me if you need to know more - I did this for a number of years and loved it!

Not sure how that differentiates you from any other club? If I go to Denham, all of that is there. I think unless you have a pre-existing market who are unhappy with their current school, then if you don't have anything really different from any other club, how does that give you a better chance than any other school?

Sorry to be negative, but just trying to be fair. Just sounds like a standard school to me.

Either way, good luck, and hope it goes well. IPZ

Hi IanPZ,

You make a good point, the reason I seek out clubs, wherever I am in the world, is because it is about the flying not about the money. School = Money, club = fun (GENERALLY).

Like a famous millionaire once said, "you don't have to do something original, you just do whatever everyone else does, just do it better/brilliantly/best"

S&C...
Is all the below going to be on one site?

a) Fleet; 2 x PA38s (one IFR), 2 x PA28s (one full glass cockpit and airways).
1 x C150 Aerobat. 1 x C150 normal. 1 x Grob 109 motorglider
2 x Slingsby Venture ( cheap two seater flying available at £60/hr)
1 x Condor for tailwheel- more interesting hire.

Foster a club atmosphere is my best advice. The best club I ever flew at was a group on it's own airfield where the club activities were almost as important as the flying.



Also, when I got involved with running the place, I scrapped landing fees and reduced the fuel price. The result was an increase in income as other pilots made it their destination of choice. You will be amazed to find how far they will fly to fill up at 5p a liter less! Also, we got a good coffee machine, great muffins and a nice place to sit and consume them. The cafe made a fortune.

Something to consider if you have control over such things.

Also having something different to fly will set you apart as well. The club I fly at on my infrequent visits to the UK has a Decathalon which is why I fly there. Offer AOPA aerobatic courses and you will enhance the club massively.

Atmosphere is everything. Especially a welcoming atmosphere. It's daunting for young (and old) first timers who walk into a club to enquire about trial lessons with a handful of questions. It's great if the club welcomes them in the moment they walk through the door and invites them to look around the club and provides them with some printed information on how to proceed, prices and encourages them to become a member and enjoy the club as well as the flying.

If White Waltham were more welcoming to visitors arriving by car and the fuel was a little less expensive then it would be the perfect club.

I do like to see bits of aeroplanes used to decorate the walls/ceilings as well as the usual photos. It creates atmosphere.

Top marks on the Hook Norton.

Also, White Waltham has a member's day airshow that is always brilliant. If you could fit in something similar but open to the public, it would be a great way to raise local awareness and make some additional income.

Whoever works the reception should have it drilled into them that its not acceptable to keep customers waiting and generally ignore them like I have experienced on several occasions at Popham.

Tecnam aircraft. Sleek, sexy, sporty. P92 and P2002 for PPL. You can offer CPL/ME on a P2006, which is cheaper to operate than most complex twins. Not to mention their new line up (P2010 etc.)

Humm
Location given as Oxford.

Any speculation on location of the club?

I would love some time on that Condor.

Scrap the PA38s and go for VLA’s

Rod1

He could probably scrap the 152 as well. If the Aerobat is cheap to rent then it could be a good laugh but otherwise, surely a Citabria or Cap10 would be better? I guess the problem is what is cheap and does not require a tailwheel endorsement but is still fun to do aeros in. Suggestions anyone?

What about a factory built Tipsy Nipper for hire at £60/hr I kow I would go for it but I'm not sure about the legalities?

Low/no landing fees would be a great way to generate traffic and footfall. As previously stated, if the cafe is good (think Old Sarum) then people will come and spend money on fuel and a really good sarnie, negating the need for the income generated by landing fees. And lets face it, the more people that walk through the clubhouse door, the more money you'll make.

I think you can also generate footfall and interest by having a skydiving concern onsite as this attracts lots of people with the guts to fly.

Apologies if these suggestions have already been made.

steakandchips - great handle by the way - put that on your menu and I'll be there! You mentioned about an online booking system - try Dave Barclay at Highland Aviation in Inverness. They have a pretty slick system which may be of interest.

Bad idea, since he would loose one of his few IMC capable airplanes, also certified for intentional spins.

Steakandchips,
I do admire someone who has the guts to start a project like this.
As with any club, keep it simple. Concentrate on the basics of what people want. Don’t try and do everything. Make people who visit, want to return. This can only be done by making the visit fun/interesting. Visit your competitors to see what they’re doing and get a feel as to what is working. Busy clubs / happy people?
Avoid “committee types” who like to get involved in the running of a club but only end up upsetting members.
You say you don’t want to make any money out of it but I don’t believe that’s realistic, any successful club should be solvent and run as such. If someone can afford to fly a light aircraft, they can afford to pay Costa prices for coffee (but they will expect the coffee to be good!) The same goes for landing fees, if the runway is in good condition people won’t mind paying for it.
Best of luck
Pete

Funnily enough I was always put off by a good club atmosphere. I know I'm a miserable old s*d but all I ever wanted was to ring up, book, turn up and fly. This is why I never took up gliding properly. Time was too short to hang around all day. This sounds pretty unfriendly but I know I'm not alone. Some of us just want to fly. We already have a social life. If you can accommodate us as well the luvly.

Call me Nostradamus, but I predict that could end badly.

In particular, I predict the sound of an approaching Russian radial, the sound of frantic donut munching, the (laboured) sound of a departing Russian radial, and then the sound of your bank manager on the phone demanding to know how the hell you blew twenty grand on donuts during your first weekend of operation.

"Tecnam aircraft. Sleek, sexy, sporty. P92 and P2002 for PPL"

Which will fall apart after 10 mins. They are not upto the stresses and stains of a flying school.

150 aerobats are great aircraft you can teach PPL, IMC, Night and Aeros so they earn you cash all year round. And they will run on 91UL.

I love PA38 but that spar life doesn't help the bottom line

I fly from WW and am a huge fan - to be fair always looking to improve their service (at least over my 2yrs experience)

Some things that would escalate it for myself to a Carlsberg experience: member of ground crew coming out to meet you on arrival (from a day trip to France perhaps) with some refreshments and then to offer to put the cover on the plane for you. I am sure most will think I am a lazy sod but i would happily pay a bit extra for a more personal service

Finally, as you relax for a second with friends someone somewhere updates the flight record electronically so saving idiots like myself no end of grief going over this

:hmm: Really? I learned to fly on a 5800hr P92 of which 5700 of those hours were all PPL training. Seemed to hold together well, even after 20 or so of my magnitude 8 landings.

In these modern times I am astonished that none of the (admittedly not many) clubs I have frequented have any kind of email system set up so that interest can be maintained.
I think if I ran a club I would take the email address of every single person that set foot in the club and make sure that from then on they were aware of every event, special deal, fly out, discount, change of rules or whatever was on offer.
EG: I attended an excellent aerobatic beginners day last year. It was very well run and all participants were later emailed with their results, but there's been absolutely no follow up.
Whereas last week I bought a switch for six quid and today I got an email from the company asking if everything was OK. Good service.
Some enthusiastic individuals do attempt it off their own back but it's not the same as coming from the club itself.
Too many clubs leave the initiative to the member/visitor/individual employee.

stickandrudderman, thats exactly what our club does. As soon as you join, your email gets added, and then one of the members who runs the social side emails every month, telling people what that month's event will be, and also any events coming up. Means we can all plan ahead!

And you are so right, that makes a huge difference, and means we actually go to club events, cos its used as a reminder as well.

for online booking
 

This seems to work well:

http://goboko.com/

Good luck!