UAVs over Essex and Kent
 

Motorists and fly tippers could be targeted by police spy planes - Telegraph

Police proposing to use Unmanned Aerial Vehicles over Essex and Kent. The last time, it was Strathclyde police who were involved. Nothing much came of it, but their site plans were very different from what the CAA said they had authorised.

That would be really worse than a big brother

Surely, General Jumbo could help! :E

I foresee a future of compulsory mode S, and TRAs popping up all over the place, at short notice.

I have often wondered whether one of the reasons for Mode S is to facilitate the 'mixing' of UAVs and GA in the same airspace?

What a waste of tax payers money. Gits.

Who would see you shoot one down.
Those of you with warbirds step forward.
DO

Should be possible to take em out with RC model aircraft long live the revolution

Seem to recall one of the stated objectives in the CAA Mode-S (lack of) consultation exercise was to enable the "interoperability" of all aircraft, including UAV's.

[QUOTE] Those of you with warbirds step forward./QUOTE]

Reckon I could do it with a Cub and a shotgun.

But then the mangled UAV would only be replaced using more of my hard earned, taxed money. :(

Mode S is a pants idea. Just look at the Dutch example. Waste of time and money. I too have an excellent idea for avoiding air-to-air collisions, but it doesn't involve unscrupulous money making scandals so it's of no use to anyone. Just fly around with your eyes open..... And remember to scan across the sky.... Frequently.

... all it would take is for one of these nice new toys to fall out of the sky on to a puppy farm for them to be put out of service.

Or, the government could close all puppy farms. You never can tell with this bunch.

I'm sure comrade Brown would like us all microchipped:ok:

I hope all this surveillance ends after the election.

hmm this gives me an idea.....:E:E

V-1 flying bomb - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

hugs

xxx

f

Yeah! Good idea flash. Launch your Spitty and we'll see if we can topple these little fekkers gyros and make 'em splash into the drink.

According to CAA rules UAV's can only be operated outside controlled airspace if they can sense other traffic and be sensed by other traffic.

I have always believed that this is what Mode S is really all about.

Light UAVs can only be operated up to 50M from the operator and must remain in sight, just like model aeroplanes.

http://www.caa.co.uk/docs/1416/srg_s...-01-180604.pdf

UAVs aren't able to operate outside of notified danger areas at the present time. It's a legislative minefield so it won't happen anytime soon, but it will eventually.

Certification by 2012, implementation by 2015 if the article in Flight is to be believed:European Union expects civil unmanned air vehicles to use general aviation equipment

I don't think that a UAV is likely to be any more of a danger to me than a Cesna 172 being flown by the new breed of magenta line cowboys, both have next to no time for "lookout".

At least the UAV is going to continue on track if you see it at the last moment rather than turning unpredictably.

An autonomous UAV will certainly have active TCAS so will avoid you - assuming you are transponding, and if you are not transponding then nobody (like, for example, Farnborough Radar) will see you anyway; well not in a manner that is actually useful to anybody being provided with their service :)

It all sounds great until one goes wrong and comes down in the middle of Southend or Maidstone:ok:

All the more reason to look out really.

An article in Flight International in D.ecember suggested that a different technology to Mode-S/TCAS/PCAS is the most likely to be adopted:

European Union expects civil unmanned air vehicles to use general aviation equipment

Will it have the sense to avoid the obligatory school?

Currently in the UK if a UAV is greater than 7 KG mass (excluding fuel), unless equipped with a certified "sense and avoid" system, must be operated within visual range of the UAV Pilot, and if not operating within Class A, C, D or E airspace with the permission of the controlling ATC Unit, must be no higher than 400 FT above surface (ANO Article 166).

At the present time there is no sense and avoid system certified for use in the UK.

If there is a requirement to operate outside visual range of the UAV Pilot, and the sense and avoid system is not available, the flight must be conducted within segregated airspace, to preclude the presence of manned aircraft. CAA also expects radar surveillance to be available to protect the airspace, with the intent that if a conflicting manned aircraft is observed, the UAV lands.

The on board sense and avoid system is required to enable the UAV to avoid all manned aircraft (ie whether or not SSR equipped).

Any operation of UAV consequently going to be of very limited extent for the forseable future.

How on earth are they going to achieve that.

All around radar is the only way, which makes the UAV pretty significantly above 7kg ;) Also puts it firmly into the high six digit price bracket, IMHO.

IO540

Quote:
"The on board sense and avoid system is required to enable the UAV to avoid all manned aircraft (ie whether or not SSR equipped)."

How on earth are they going to achieve that."


Sense and Avoid systems are being currently being developed. Do not expect to know any more about them until at least 2012.

Sorry cannot be more specific, as it may affect my future prosperity!

Clearly you are hoping for some breakthroughs in fundamental physics :)

There's me flying along, at night, lights off, no transponder... what am I emitting??

Radar is the only way. It doesn't have to be anything really precise, of course. But it has to work over a reasonable distance.

Radar won't work because not all aircraft show up on radar (e.g. GRP and wooden aeroplanes and gliders spring immediately to mind).

The article in Flight International that I previously quoted (European Union expects civil unmanned air vehicles to use general aviation equipment) suggests that GA wil need to adopt the technology that UAV's will have in order to enable airspace interoperability (otherwise it could only be done through airspace segregation). The suggestion was to use FLARM (rather than Mode-S).

Perhaps during daytime operations some sort of optical based sense and avoid could be used?

I think your confidence in that is greater than mine. I suspect that even the most ardent gadget enthusiast is likely to look out in the direction of turn before turning.

YouTube - German Army Luna UAV vs Ariana Afghan Airlines Airbus A300B4

Bit worrying... :uhoh:

Originally Posted by A and C
At least the UAV is going to continue on track if you see it at the last moment rather than turning unpredictably.


Not the case in UK, manned aircraft have primacy. The sense and avoid required for flight in Class G airspace will enable the UAV to manoeuvre away from manned flights, to the extent that you may not even see it!

Hmmm....Perhaps

Gliders sometime show up on radar..I've often been warned of gliders on my track.
Sailing ships used to have a radar reflector made of two diamonds of metal at right angles to each other. Would this not help to make gliders and others more visible. It worked with Chaff so it should work if the diamonds were within the structure of the glider. Someone must have experimentated with this in the past.

In one of the Philip Wills books he tells of gliders being used in the early stages of the last war to see if and how they could be detected on radar, so it does go back a long way

The standard radar reflector (described) can easily be built inside the hull of a composite plane. It weighs nothing and won't affect the aerodynamics.

However, I am not convinced that radar visibility is high on the list of some customers who may be somewhat less than confident of their position relative to CAS ;)

I'd still like to know how a UAV is going to detect nontransponding planes, at night, no lights, no radar. Telepathy perhaps? I can think of short distance methods which are widely used in industrial instrumentation (capacitive etc) but they will need very close proximity (tens of metres).

The other good thing is that you can shoot down UAVs without being done for attempted manslaughter!!? :}

So, would it be a similar penalty to leaving the local Panda car on bricks?

If all the mode-S stuff is applicable to UAVs, then iPhone apps like plane finder could be useful after all! :E

:D:D Unlicensed Merseyside Police drone grounded :D:D

Who said those wonderful people down at Gatwick never do anything for us?

OC619

Wildlife?
 

Once all the 'interoperability' problems with aircraft have been sorted out, what about the wildlife?

Do they expect all the Sh!te Hawks to have read the ANO and carry Mode S?

The average bird isn't as good at See & Avoid as they think they are, given the number of bird strikes. At least no one can accuse them of being head down in the cockpit when they are in the air...

What they were doing could have cost lives.
 

Really great isn't it, ignorance of the law is no defence for us mortals,:confused:

Looking at the piccie of the Merseyside Police UAV, there's no way a mode S transponder could be fitted in it, so what happened to 'see and avoid'?