Sheffield City Airport (More Doomed Than Before)
 

From the consultants report into EGSY, located on the Sheffield City Council website and reported on regional TV news this evening (you can see a nice red helicopter looking sad in the background if you are quick ...)

http://www.sheffield.gov.uk/index.asp?pgid=49526

The same consultants who have been advising SCA since 1998, so throughout the period of airport operation - (www.yorkaviation.co.uk) also note later in the report that to continue operating the airport would require a reimbursement to the operator.


Either by accident or design, the SCC website was updated by somebody named Slaughter. How ironic..

As Peel paid York Aviation to do the report do you think it would have ever come to the opposite conclusion?

Don't blame York though. Just doing what all consultants have done time imemorial.

Tell the client what they already know and then get paid for it!


Sir George Cayley

I believe the correct form is "tell the client what they WANT and get paid for it"

A point made in the report is that one cannot really land regional air transport aircraft at EGSY because the runway is too short.

However I have seen Dash 8 aircraft touch on the 28 threshold and have stopped by the Bravo exit without a backtrack and excessive breaking (much to the admiration of the then controller! Gave him somebody to talk to before GA was allowed).

Ridiculous that the report continually cites Manchester Airport as being easy to get to from Sheffield and quotes 65 minutes - as someone who drives this route every day there is no way you can get from the city centre to MAN in that time unless it's about 4.30am! The route is a winding goat trail over the moors that feeds into the appalling bottleneck that is Glossop/Mottram. More like 70-90 minutes typically.

When you consider all the cities/towns that are smaller than Sheffield and have a convenient local airport it's a crying shame that the airport looks like it's doomed.

It could also mean the end of regular flying for me as Gamston, Netherthorpe etc. are all more than an hour's drive away, which makes even a short flight virtually an all day affair:(

Certainly not an easy drive, esp as most of the business flights leave at 0630 - 0700hrs range to reach "Europe" which is an hour ahead.

For me to get to work in Brussels via Manchester means getting up at 0400hrs (not at your best, see the ATPL Human Factors course to understand more) to be in Brussels for 0930,

From Sheffield Airport it was a 15 min drive.

NB Winding goat track is a bit of an exageration. Its much worse than that (esp in the snow ....)

:(

Sheffield runway too short for regional airlines?
London City gets more and more successful, jets and all - and its MUCH shorter than Sheffield - well 12m shorter!
Mike.

At the Grand Opening of the airport, there was a 146 and an ATP present if I recall.
Also when KLM were flying from there, their Fokkers managed with ease to get in and out.
Its a rip-off!

Yes there were a lot of aeroplanes of all shapes and sizes using Sheffield for a very short period of time, the trouble is that there weren't enough passengers to make any of the routes viable.
Put an airport next to a motorway, within easy reach of national rail links, only 1 hours drive from Humberside and Leeds and try and operate similar routes with more expensive fares - I wonder why it wasn't a success?

Having been involved in it's operation for a while, I know that it rapidly became a very expensive white elephant and no one in their right mind would have taken it on as a commercial enterprise after all the scheduled routes failed.

It doesn't take a genius to work out that Peel only took it on because it helped smooth the political path for the development of Robin Hood - a fact they've never denied.

It would be great if Sheffield could remain available as a G/A facility, but who would pay the bills?

Come up with an answer to that, and you'll probably find that it will stay open.

I'm not sure though niknak, it seems as though if there were no other factors, it could at least break even as a GA airfield, the quoted running costs in the report seem rather high.

However, as the report states, the developers have a lock on this one, as they are virtually certain to get the land in 2007 for £1. Anyone wanting to take on the airfield would have to buy them out of that lucrative option, hardly a likely scenario.

Another small but significant nail in the coffin for practical GA, and another blow to Sheffield's ambitions to compete with Leeds and Manchester as an international city. Yes, the writing has been on the wall for some considerable time, but that doesn't make the end result any more palatable.

I recall the Amsterdam flights were always full to the brim (compared to a lot of the Amsterdam flights from Manchester that are not ...)

Or to get prime development land for a low cost? They may have missed out on the SDC phase of development. The asset can also be used to raise capital in its current or projected form.


For GA success, compare Sheffield with Gamston (and look at all the bizjets in the hanger at Gamston) or Denham.

Perhaps the consultants should look to Option "C" or "D" and suggest somebody else gets the chance to run EGSY for GA for a £1.

This would be more palatable than Option A (close and build for a £1) or Option B (pay the current operators for their trouble in failing to make a profit)


Incidently has any other UK city ever spent money on building an airport then closed it with ten years?

So is Sheffield airport totally DOOMED, or are they still going ahead with the idea of halving the runway, and keeping it open to GA & helis?

At least with this option Sheffield will still come away with something.

Does anyone know what happened at the council meeting yesterday?

Sad to say but that is the eventual outcome we all believed would happen. Peel only got involved with Sheffield for two reasons: (1) Sheffield was a major objector to Finningley being developed into a civil airport, and (2) the development land which is available. Number (1) conveniently removed an objector from the DSA list and (2) was a bonus for brownfield development.

It did not really need a report to state the obvious. Losses as noted in the report could never be sustained, especially when the land is so valuable for other uses!!! With Finningley nearby, Sheffield Airport doesn't make sense to airline operators in today's business world and keeping it open for GA is not going to make it anymore viable.

We can now see where the similarities lie with regards to Barton and its uncertain future. No doubt York will be invited to prepare a similar report on that airfield. Looks like we shall end up with a mini heliport at both places.

The management are claiming that the airport will remain as is until 2007, no matter what the report says!!

Sheffield is the forth largest city in the UK and has a population greater than the nation of Iceland (who have at least nine airports - there may be more but I have not been to them all).

In 2004 the City Council noted that :-

How many cities in the UK have opened and then closed an airport??

How many cities in the UK have such bad rail and road links with the rest of the country? (Esp rail).

Check out this quotation from the Council Website, May 2004:-

So it is not a question of granting access to 2007. There is no choice.

Check this quotation as well:-

2014. '... significant fixed wing and helicopter services'.

Here is the link: http://www.sheffield.gov.uk/index.asp?pgid=26549


And finally Ester, from my Prune PMs of 17 November 2004, from another PPruner:-

A full 6 months before the 'independent study' by 'consultants' (who have worked extensively for Peel Airports (see York Aviation Consultants website for details) and advised on the setting up of EGSY (oops, did well there then..).

Like, but unlike, certain car manufacturers, let someone else have a go if they can't run it as a business that listens to their customers. £1 a fair price for the risk involved ...

Sheffield Airport have been criticised of late for the rather high landing fees that are in force there.
What isn't said, and ought to be, for a bit of positive publicity if you like, is that if you uplift 50 litres or more of fuel, the landing charge is waived.

Noah Zark. We visited Sheffield today and uplifted 74 litres of fuel, just as you said, no landing fee was payable. I didn't know about that so many thanks. Shame if it does close, it's a really nice friendly airfield to visit.

Just reading in my (2004) AFE Guide, the entry for Sheffield says 'PPR by Fax' :confused:

Why - whats wrong with the phone?

Kolibear - never been there, but from earlier threads on PPRuNe, ISTR that they ask for your insurance details, etc that they keep a hard copy of, hence the need for a fax. Once they have these details after your first trip, then you can phone for PPR.

I believe that I've remembered this correctly (I haven't trawled back to find the original thread, but I'm sure a search would get it for you).

You ring them, they fax you the guide to single engine aeroplane pilots using Sheffield City Airport, you fax them back with your details and you have understood the joining and noise abatement etc. After that you can come and go as you please by phone but the first visit as above.

The other option is to down load it from the website and fax it in. It is a bit of a pain, but as maggioneato said its only for the first time.
I don't think its the airport being awkward, thier purely covering their backs incase soembody fails to follow the long list of do's and don'ts laid down by the CAA.
Its a very nice friendly GA airfield, well worth a visit.

So nice in fact we have been again today. Also visited Doncaster Sheffield. Uplifted fuel again, so no landing fee.
If you fly in with someone else who is already PPR'd, you can fill in the forms then fly the return flight yourself.
So I flew in, my friend flew out.

I hope to be there at 0930 tomorrow. Have to look at a something in Broomhill. Wx px of course.

How long in minutes from The airport to Broomhill by cab, anyone? Jct of Westbourne and Glossop.

Should just manage to squeeze 50 litres into the aeroplane.


Stik

Stik,
20-25 minutes should see it at that time of the morning. The rush should have abated by then.
N.Z.
P.S. Check your P.M.'s.

Noah - no PM?

If it is a PM saying, I'll run you across to yr destination, then take you back to the aerodrome for compensation in either wonga or 15 minutes in the Pitts, then assuming that a) you are not oversize and b) you don't puke all over me - then it's the sort of PM I'd love to see!

Stik

Was in the area today (driving) so decided to pop in & watch the happenings here whilst eating my lunch. Quite a tidy little aerodrome & all the people seemed friendly enough, would be shame if it does close.

Nice shiny bizjet there too (possibly a Beechjet 400)

Fried Chicken

The folk at Sheffield are very friendly and helpful, I've PPR'd for Sunday and they have promised to find space in Hangar 2 for my pocket rocket.

50 litres of fuel - I'll try but probably won't have that much ullage.


Stik

Welcome to Democracy comrade and the people's southern republic.

We enjoyed the free air display in the overhead.

h-r:)

:) :) :)

they are very very nice people!

Stik, Didn't realise one of them (Pitts pilots) was you, or would have tried to come over and say hello. I was flying the Chipmunk but not much of a gap between customers at the time you were there. My customers liked the display too.

QNH - you are far too kind.

All I intended to do was to take MichealJP59 for a loop and swoop in the general handling area but ATC had a much more "fun" plan: "Please play in the o/head!" I kept it all well above 1500'agl for the noise to permeate far and wide!

I showed Mike an aileron roll, he immediately showed me two more then we went off and I looped, Mike looped, Mike looped again and floated in 0G far better. A roll off the top followed by a 1/2 Cuban into an avalanche into a stall turn, 1/2 slow roll to inverted............... still inverted........... 1/2 slow roll to errect, big wing over to final and then a pretty poor landing!

A couple of beers in The Place in Broomhill, then a quiet but nice old pub for an abf (absloute bloody final) then back to t'hotel for some zees.

The three of us left today at 14H15 (I'd been to "school" all morning whilst the other two went shopping). V obliging controller allowed us a 3 ship formation departure.


I LOVE SHEFFIELD CITY AIRPORT




Stik


ps - probably back next week

Must add my thanks to Stik. I enjoyed the display from the front seat as well - saw some angles of Sheffield I'd never seen before:)

Now back to the Cessna 152... it will seem somewhat tame...

I was no 3 with Stik and must add that I loved Sheffield too. Perhaps next time we can arrange a longer display!!? Nice to meet you MichaelJP59

Stik.....


Minor point thought it may be, and although he thinks he is a 'controller'........Sheffield Radio is just that, and nothing more.

FE,

As one of 4 fellas that work in the tower, I think you're being a bit harsh tarring us all with the same brush!!!

Chap in the tower was very nice and helpful and as far as I'm concerned could have been SATCO or a leprechaun - it made no difference to me! I appreciated the kindness and the help.

Next time, hopefully, Flossie #3 will do his solo bit - absolutely awesome!

Thanks stik, you're more than welcome.

Unfortunately, our "supportive" neighbours didn't enjoy it quite as much, and flooded the council switch board with complaints!!! :mad: :mad:

So, after recieving a few stern words from the management this morning, I'm afraid they'll be no more fun in the overhead at Sheffield!

It was good while it lasted though!! :D

Wonder what the neighbours were complaining about then?

Was it because they weren't warned about the free air display?

Or was it the office managers moaning because the staff were distracted:)

G1,

I am very sorry if I have caused upset.

Drop me a PM if appropriate with an address and I'll write a letter of apology.

Stik

Stik - They tend to be habitual complainers who did insufficient research when purchasing a house! "Wonder wot that strip of Tarmac's for ???"

Enjoyed the show and its a shame they won't continue.

As for the Airport Management - anything that makes it look like an Airport - well they're bound to get arsey about that!!!

Thanks 4 the show

Minty