Women in Aviation
The Original Whirly
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dublinpilot,
Much of what you're saying is true, at least in part. But it doesn't alter the fact that prejudice does exist. And what you've ignored is the fact that people can start to over-react and see prejudice in jokes and similar BECAUSE they have experienced it for real. People pick up on others' attitudes. This is something that's difficult to explain, but I'll try...
When I started flying I didn't know it was male orientated, and didn't expect to be treated any differently because I was female. And I wasn't, not that obviously. But it was all sorts of subtle things...the guys were all told about Career Development Loans, and when I asked about one, I was told: "That's only for people who are getting commercial licences". I actually assumed that the amazement when I said I was considering going commercial was due to my age, as I was over 40 (Oh God, I NEVER admitted that on PPRuNe before!!!!!!!), but then discovered that loads of 40-something men were considering CPL(H)s, and no-one thought it at all odd. It's not the amazement I'm objecting to, it's the fact that I wasn't given advice I might have wanted. And then..my instructor assumed I wouldn't be strong enough to check the rotor blades (you have to push one up; it's a tiny bit physical); but it's important and I insisted on doing it. I insisted on refuelling too, not to prove anything, but I might have been on my own one day and I needed to know how to. In all sorts of ways I wasn't quite taken seriously...these are just the ways it manifested. It was sort of assumed I'd get my licence and kind of tootle around the sky gently and locally with one or two friends to hold my hand, never do any more. When I said I was thinking of becoming an instructor, people were gobsmacked. And it was also assumed that someone else must be funding it...a woman couldn't have that kind of money, could she? I wasn't confident; I would have loved someone to have said: "Great, go for it!" No-one ever did; it was almost like I'd broken the unwritten rules.
Then there was the Dawn to Dusk flying competition, which a female friend and I won in 2000. Someone asked the judges if they only gave us the prize because we were women!!!!! Actually, the judge was more annoyed than we were.
I take your point about it being unusual for women to fly, so naturally one assumes their male passengers are pilots. But only up to a point. I have at times been actively ignored even after it was known. And I'd have to be a bloody saint not to get annoyed when such things happen again and again and again and again. To be honest, I rarely fly with men now...since I'm not a bloody saint.
I find it hard to think of other examples because, like I said, it's an attitude thing. I might even think you were right, if it wasn't for a few weeks spent flying in the US. Women pilots are in a minority there, but they aren't treated any differently. I flew with a male passenger to Santa Barbara, and when we went in to book in etc, they asked who was the pilot. If the Americans can do it, why not here? The BWPA here gets accused of being a women's social group (and believe me, it's never said in anything other than a derogatory fashion); the WhirlyGirls organisation in the US is very much respected. I could go on, if I could remember examples after a long day.
I can't prove it, but I'm not over-reacting, and neither are most of the others. I didn't expect discrimination, having rarely run into it in other walks of life, and it caught me totally unawares in aviation.
Like Redsnail and Flower, it doesn't worry me that much now. Why should it. Like them, I have the qualifications I need, and they speak for themselves. I can get on with what I want to do, and other people's prejudice is their problem. But you see, I want to help other women in aviation, and I'd like to see more of them. And while things are as they are, it's very difficult for most women. Teachers know that kids don't do well at school if they aren't expected to. It's the same for new pilots. If not much is expected of you, you probably won't think you can do much. If you're told the sky's the limit (sorry for horrible pun), then it is. You may not see that, I may not have explained it very well, but with a few exceptions, that's the case.
And since a problem can't be solved if it's ignored, that's why I'm spending half my evening after a long day trying to communicate the situation as I see it, on this thread.
Much of what you're saying is true, at least in part. But it doesn't alter the fact that prejudice does exist. And what you've ignored is the fact that people can start to over-react and see prejudice in jokes and similar BECAUSE they have experienced it for real. People pick up on others' attitudes. This is something that's difficult to explain, but I'll try...
When I started flying I didn't know it was male orientated, and didn't expect to be treated any differently because I was female. And I wasn't, not that obviously. But it was all sorts of subtle things...the guys were all told about Career Development Loans, and when I asked about one, I was told: "That's only for people who are getting commercial licences". I actually assumed that the amazement when I said I was considering going commercial was due to my age, as I was over 40 (Oh God, I NEVER admitted that on PPRuNe before!!!!!!!), but then discovered that loads of 40-something men were considering CPL(H)s, and no-one thought it at all odd. It's not the amazement I'm objecting to, it's the fact that I wasn't given advice I might have wanted. And then..my instructor assumed I wouldn't be strong enough to check the rotor blades (you have to push one up; it's a tiny bit physical); but it's important and I insisted on doing it. I insisted on refuelling too, not to prove anything, but I might have been on my own one day and I needed to know how to. In all sorts of ways I wasn't quite taken seriously...these are just the ways it manifested. It was sort of assumed I'd get my licence and kind of tootle around the sky gently and locally with one or two friends to hold my hand, never do any more. When I said I was thinking of becoming an instructor, people were gobsmacked. And it was also assumed that someone else must be funding it...a woman couldn't have that kind of money, could she? I wasn't confident; I would have loved someone to have said: "Great, go for it!" No-one ever did; it was almost like I'd broken the unwritten rules.
Then there was the Dawn to Dusk flying competition, which a female friend and I won in 2000. Someone asked the judges if they only gave us the prize because we were women!!!!! Actually, the judge was more annoyed than we were.
I take your point about it being unusual for women to fly, so naturally one assumes their male passengers are pilots. But only up to a point. I have at times been actively ignored even after it was known. And I'd have to be a bloody saint not to get annoyed when such things happen again and again and again and again. To be honest, I rarely fly with men now...since I'm not a bloody saint.
I find it hard to think of other examples because, like I said, it's an attitude thing. I might even think you were right, if it wasn't for a few weeks spent flying in the US. Women pilots are in a minority there, but they aren't treated any differently. I flew with a male passenger to Santa Barbara, and when we went in to book in etc, they asked who was the pilot. If the Americans can do it, why not here? The BWPA here gets accused of being a women's social group (and believe me, it's never said in anything other than a derogatory fashion); the WhirlyGirls organisation in the US is very much respected. I could go on, if I could remember examples after a long day.
I can't prove it, but I'm not over-reacting, and neither are most of the others. I didn't expect discrimination, having rarely run into it in other walks of life, and it caught me totally unawares in aviation.
Like Redsnail and Flower, it doesn't worry me that much now. Why should it. Like them, I have the qualifications I need, and they speak for themselves. I can get on with what I want to do, and other people's prejudice is their problem. But you see, I want to help other women in aviation, and I'd like to see more of them. And while things are as they are, it's very difficult for most women. Teachers know that kids don't do well at school if they aren't expected to. It's the same for new pilots. If not much is expected of you, you probably won't think you can do much. If you're told the sky's the limit (sorry for horrible pun), then it is. You may not see that, I may not have explained it very well, but with a few exceptions, that's the case.
And since a problem can't be solved if it's ignored, that's why I'm spending half my evening after a long day trying to communicate the situation as I see it, on this thread.
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Another reluctant contributor. When I started to fly it was because a male friend set up the lesson for me - I did not know how to go about it. Yet in some respects I was technically minded and adventurous in my outside work activities: I rode and mended my own bicycle (Still do), had been on an Outward Bound course, was a keen skier etc. I simply had no contact with aviation and did not know how to start. I think that may be why more women do not fly- unless their friends do they will not think of it.
I had actually wanted to fly from the age of 8 but it seemed a pipedream and at University in the 70s girls could not join the Air Squadron. Like some of the other contributors I experienced difficulties with certain types of arrogant males but I had also experienced this in the City during my professional training. I had to wait until I was 31 to afford flying lessons but soon after gaining my PPL I started working for a BCPL, then AFI Rating etc.
I work as an Instructor/ Examiner but I think that one of the things that has changed is that having gained qualifications as an FIC/FIE I now find a lot more respect from other pilots, male or female. Before I reached this position, even if I was dressed in the usual white airline shirt and dark trousers, I would experience Airport Managers, Refuellers asking my male student (dressed in jeans etc) how much fuel they required etc. I think it is simply lack of imagination and ignorance on the part of many people and I no longer take offence.
So really what we should be asking is not only: how to get more women in to flying but also how to get more people into flying?This is an issue that needs addressing urgently as the number of PPL issues last year was down by 25% on the previous year. Is it the case that people find their computer more fascinating than an aeroplane??
My only gripe with this thread is the extraordinary number of misspellings- I do not think we do the industry a service if we are so careless of basics - failing to pay attention to spelling when you are on the ground safe by a computer does not bode well for your cockpit checks and safety drills!!
I had actually wanted to fly from the age of 8 but it seemed a pipedream and at University in the 70s girls could not join the Air Squadron. Like some of the other contributors I experienced difficulties with certain types of arrogant males but I had also experienced this in the City during my professional training. I had to wait until I was 31 to afford flying lessons but soon after gaining my PPL I started working for a BCPL, then AFI Rating etc.
I work as an Instructor/ Examiner but I think that one of the things that has changed is that having gained qualifications as an FIC/FIE I now find a lot more respect from other pilots, male or female. Before I reached this position, even if I was dressed in the usual white airline shirt and dark trousers, I would experience Airport Managers, Refuellers asking my male student (dressed in jeans etc) how much fuel they required etc. I think it is simply lack of imagination and ignorance on the part of many people and I no longer take offence.
So really what we should be asking is not only: how to get more women in to flying but also how to get more people into flying?This is an issue that needs addressing urgently as the number of PPL issues last year was down by 25% on the previous year. Is it the case that people find their computer more fascinating than an aeroplane??
My only gripe with this thread is the extraordinary number of misspellings- I do not think we do the industry a service if we are so careless of basics - failing to pay attention to spelling when you are on the ground safe by a computer does not bode well for your cockpit checks and safety drills!!
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I understand from the CAA statistics that I am one of ten private pilots of my age in the UK. I don't care if my non flying passenger is asked how much fuel he wants, more often than not I fuel where you help yourself, and no one comes running out to help the old dear climb up on the Cessna wings. I'm not bothered if people think I was waiting for a trial lesson instead of getting ready to go flying myself. I fly for the pleasure it gives me, so don't have any problem with male pilots at all. I don't see why gender has to come in to it, we all have to do the same training, and we all enjoy a very special hobby. 
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Thanks Northern Highflyer for the compliment! 
I'm amazed at the feedback, especially how many had not intended to post on this "sensitive" subject and did anyway! Thanks to all of you!
The experiences that some women pilot went through shows how important it is that this subject gets brought up every now and again. Of course the same, or similar, kind of prejudice is found in other areas... think about male nurses in hospitals, etc. ... but that doesn't mean that it should be ignored or down-played.
I think the idea of giving the wife or girl friend a free instrution flight as a gift is great!
Westy
I'm amazed at the feedback, especially how many had not intended to post on this "sensitive" subject and did anyway! Thanks to all of you!
The experiences that some women pilot went through shows how important it is that this subject gets brought up every now and again. Of course the same, or similar, kind of prejudice is found in other areas... think about male nurses in hospitals, etc. ... but that doesn't mean that it should be ignored or down-played.
I think the idea of giving the wife or girl friend a free instrution flight as a gift is great!
Westy
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I think the idea of giving the wife or girl friend a free instrution flight as a gift is great!
She doesn't mind me going flying, she'll put up with me talking about flying, reading about flying and PPRuNeing, she'll even go flying with me sometimes, but she just isn't interested in doing it herself.
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hi Whirly,
In many ways I agree with you, and I'm sure in the core issue we agree completely.
I have no doubt whatsoever that many female pilots do suffer discrimination, and that their gender is the cause of that.
However I don't think that anyone should look on it as "their gender" being the problem. If you say someone didn't give you the career information because you were a woman, it's almost like saying that they thought they had a justifiable reason for not giveing you the info, and you just happen to disagree. That's not the case at all. Your gender was irrelevant. What was wrong was their ingorant attitude, not you.
If they had failed to give the same info to a male collegue, then he too would have felt agreeved, and justifiably so. His complaint would be no less vaild than yours, and therefore your gender should be and is irrelevant. Your complaint is just as vaild if you never mention your gender. To highlight your gender in making the complaint adds nothing to the complaint. I guess that's one of the points I'm trying to make.
The second was that I think sometimes girls can feel that something that was wrong happened just because they were female, when that may not have been the reason at all. On the "I've had enough!" thread David's complaint was perfectly valid. He never thought his gender was the reason for the problem, just an unreasonable instructor. Had David been a Darlene she might have though her gender was the reason, when it was actually nothing to do with her. It was simply a crap instructor!
As can see from that thread, I've had my own problems with a particular instuctor. I'd make a pretty good guess at why that instructor felt the need to put me down, but it had no relevance to my flying or the problem...his attitude. Therfore I never told it to him, or on David's thread. It added nothing to my complaint. My complaint was just as vaild without explaining why I though he saw the need to put me down.
Their reasons are irrelevant. The simple fact is they are wrong, not you, so don't lend any credence to their reasons by explaining them. You should make your valid complaints, but leave your gender out, it add's nothing to your argument; your complaint is just as vaild with out it.
dp
ps. Cessnababe-yes, I've often wished PPruNe would have a spell checker in the post section I can't spell to save my life 
Still thankfully I dont' need to be able to spell to read a checklist or carry out a saftey drill
In many ways I agree with you, and I'm sure in the core issue we agree completely.
I have no doubt whatsoever that many female pilots do suffer discrimination, and that their gender is the cause of that.
However I don't think that anyone should look on it as "their gender" being the problem. If you say someone didn't give you the career information because you were a woman, it's almost like saying that they thought they had a justifiable reason for not giveing you the info, and you just happen to disagree. That's not the case at all. Your gender was irrelevant. What was wrong was their ingorant attitude, not you.
If they had failed to give the same info to a male collegue, then he too would have felt agreeved, and justifiably so. His complaint would be no less vaild than yours, and therefore your gender should be and is irrelevant. Your complaint is just as vaild if you never mention your gender. To highlight your gender in making the complaint adds nothing to the complaint. I guess that's one of the points I'm trying to make.
The second was that I think sometimes girls can feel that something that was wrong happened just because they were female, when that may not have been the reason at all. On the "I've had enough!" thread David's complaint was perfectly valid. He never thought his gender was the reason for the problem, just an unreasonable instructor. Had David been a Darlene she might have though her gender was the reason, when it was actually nothing to do with her. It was simply a crap instructor!
As can see from that thread, I've had my own problems with a particular instuctor. I'd make a pretty good guess at why that instructor felt the need to put me down, but it had no relevance to my flying or the problem...his attitude. Therfore I never told it to him, or on David's thread. It added nothing to my complaint. My complaint was just as vaild without explaining why I though he saw the need to put me down.
Their reasons are irrelevant. The simple fact is they are wrong, not you, so don't lend any credence to their reasons by explaining them. You should make your valid complaints, but leave your gender out, it add's nothing to your argument; your complaint is just as vaild with out it.
dp
ps. Cessnababe-yes, I've often wished PPruNe would have a spell checker in the post section
I can't spell to save my life Still thankfully I dont' need to be able to spell to read a checklist or carry out a saftey drill
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@Evo
but you tried! Of course, not everyone is interested in flying... I have a son and a daughter, both started glider flying, both quit before their first solo....
The point we're (I'm) trying to make is that too often the idea that the woman could take lessons just doesn't occurs.
@Dublinpilot,
of course you are right, too. A woman does tend to think of such treatment as a gender thing more often then not. And why? because it too often is or was in the past! We women, too, must change our thinking as well. We don't expect only the men to change... that would be unfair
Westy
but you tried! Of course, not everyone is interested in flying... I have a son and a daughter, both started glider flying, both quit before their first solo....
The point we're (I'm) trying to make is that too often the idea that the woman could take lessons just doesn't occurs.
@Dublinpilot,
of course you are right, too. A woman does tend to think of such treatment as a gender thing more often then not. And why? because it too often is or was in the past! We women, too, must change our thinking as well. We don't expect only the men to change... that would be unfair
Westy
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dublinpilot
Have a look here........
FREE SPELL CHECKER FOR WINDOWS.
Simply right-click when you are done doing your post, do the check, then post....!!
ps. Cessnababe-yes, I've often wished PPruNe would have a spell checker in the post section I can't spell to save my life
Still thankfully I dont' need to be able to spell to read a checklist or carry out a saftey drill
Still thankfully I dont' need to be able to spell to read a checklist or carry out a saftey drill
FREE SPELL CHECKER FOR WINDOWS.
Simply right-click when you are done doing your post, do the check, then post....!!
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Well I never found any discrimination because of my gender during my training though I did feel held back because of my disability by one school. Now I have my licence I have found no problems at all so far. My husband supported my decision to fly though my mum diddnt, not surprising really as she hardly let me do anything when I was growing up.
The Original Whirly
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dublinpilot,
When I started flying I didn't expect to be treated any differently because I was a woman. The fact that in many cases I obviously was came as a complete and utter shock. Yes, men can be treated badly too. Yes, there are other reasons for treating people badly, and for the way any of us are treated. Nevertheless, in many instances I KNOW for certain, and in many more it APPEARS, that my gender was the reason. A number of other women I know have found the same thing. Now I have different ways I can react or respond to that, of course. I choose to highlight it; I think it's an issue that needs to be addressed. That may or may not be a good idea. But that's a different issue.
Anyway, you might all be interested in a conversation that occurred today. I arrived at the airfield to give a trial lesson, and met a young women who was waiting for her other half who was out flying. The conversation went like this:
Young woman: He's done 24 hours. I always come and wait for him.
Me: So why don't you learn yourself?
Young woman: Well, I'm waiting for him to get his licence, then I can fly with him.
Me: No, you can be a passenger. That's not the same thing.
Young Woman: I'm scared of heights
Me: So am I, and I'm an instructor
Young Woman: I have no coordination
Me: You're talking to someone who as a kid got left out of all the team games because she could never hit the ball. If you can drive a car you can fly a helicopter.
A bit more similar dialogue, and I left her wondering how her partner would react when she told him she wanted to get a PPL(H) herself. Oh dear, what have I been responsible for?
When I started flying I didn't expect to be treated any differently because I was a woman. The fact that in many cases I obviously was came as a complete and utter shock. Yes, men can be treated badly too. Yes, there are other reasons for treating people badly, and for the way any of us are treated. Nevertheless, in many instances I KNOW for certain, and in many more it APPEARS, that my gender was the reason. A number of other women I know have found the same thing. Now I have different ways I can react or respond to that, of course. I choose to highlight it; I think it's an issue that needs to be addressed. That may or may not be a good idea. But that's a different issue.
Anyway, you might all be interested in a conversation that occurred today. I arrived at the airfield to give a trial lesson, and met a young women who was waiting for her other half who was out flying. The conversation went like this:
Young woman: He's done 24 hours. I always come and wait for him.
Me: So why don't you learn yourself?
Young woman: Well, I'm waiting for him to get his licence, then I can fly with him.
Me: No, you can be a passenger. That's not the same thing.
Young Woman: I'm scared of heights
Me: So am I, and I'm an instructor
Young Woman: I have no coordination
Me: You're talking to someone who as a kid got left out of all the team games because she could never hit the ball. If you can drive a car you can fly a helicopter.
A bit more similar dialogue, and I left her wondering how her partner would react when she told him she wanted to get a PPL(H) herself. Oh dear, what have I been responsible for?
Good on yer, Whirly!
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Dear Laydiez,
How many of you have taken 'mates' up for a whizz in yer flying machines? Improve the world and start with yourself.
I always tire a bit when I see yet another 'aren't we hard done to as females in this world dominated by male chauvinistic pigs' thread.
To learn to fly takes: self determination, assertiveness, commitment and perseverance to name a few attributes.
You would surely not want to proclaim that such qualities are less prevalent among women?
I would have thought that any person who comes across belittling, denigrating characters in life, be it in aviation or the big bad world, can deal with these in a more proactive manner than by having a moan and sulk.
After all you would not want to promulgate any stereotypes would you?
FD
How many of you have taken 'mates' up for a whizz in yer flying machines? Improve the world and start with yourself.
I always tire a bit when I see yet another 'aren't we hard done to as females in this world dominated by male chauvinistic pigs' thread.
To learn to fly takes: self determination, assertiveness, commitment and perseverance to name a few attributes.
You would surely not want to proclaim that such qualities are less prevalent among women?
I would have thought that any person who comes across belittling, denigrating characters in life, be it in aviation or the big bad world, can deal with these in a more proactive manner than by having a moan and sulk.
After all you would not want to promulgate any stereotypes would you?
FD
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Flyin'Dutch,
In case you hadn't noticed, this thread was started by a female professional pilot, and it has been contributed to by several others. So I think it goes without saying that we have dealt with these things in a pro-active manner. But some of us think these things should be discussed too, with a view to change and improvement, perhaps. We find that useful, helpful, and worthy of a PPRuNe discussion. If you don't....well, I hadn't noticed anyone holding a gun to your head to force you to read this thread. The title is self-explanatory...and you don't HAVE to click on it.
In case you hadn't noticed, this thread was started by a female professional pilot, and it has been contributed to by several others. So I think it goes without saying that we have dealt with these things in a pro-active manner. But some of us think these things should be discussed too, with a view to change and improvement, perhaps. We find that useful, helpful, and worthy of a PPRuNe discussion. If you don't....well, I hadn't noticed anyone holding a gun to your head to force you to read this thread. The title is self-explanatory...and you don't HAVE to click on it.
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I do, FlyinDutch!
Take other women flying......
My mother-in-law (disabled, walks with crutches) will go to great lengths to go flying - she even folded herself into a 150 when that was all I had available!
My own mother even came hours building in Florida with me. Flying from mall to mall, slowly filling the rear of the Cherokee with shopping.
A neighbour, who had never been in a small aircraft, commented how light the controls were - she had seen the movies where a big, strong, male pilot was fighting, two-handed with the yoke!
My hairdresser is next.....
My mother-in-law (disabled, walks with crutches) will go to great lengths to go flying - she even folded herself into a 150 when that was all I had available!
My own mother even came hours building in Florida with me. Flying from mall to mall, slowly filling the rear of the Cherokee with shopping.
A neighbour, who had never been in a small aircraft, commented how light the controls were - she had seen the movies where a big, strong, male pilot was fighting, two-handed with the yoke!
My hairdresser is next.....
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Oh, and just for the record, I've taken loads of women flying...really didn't think that bit was worth replying to. One or two went ever so quiet on the ground; seemed happy enough in the air, and said it was due to the almost completely male orientated atmosphere and feeling like they didn't belong there. 
Interesting one, that. Soon after I got my PPL(A) I used to fly regularly with another newish PPL. One day he wanted to fly somewhere, while I was booked for a trial aerobatics flight at Sywell organised by the BWPA. I said I'd be happy to fly there with him, if he'd wait for the aerobatics and we could then fly back. He agreed, but kept moaning that he'd "feel out of place among all those women". People at the flying club who overheard were sympathetic to his predicament. The fact that I'd spent months at flying clubs and airports among predominantly men without mentioning it seemed to have escaped their notice.
Just a point of interest, I thought.
Interesting one, that. Soon after I got my PPL(A) I used to fly regularly with another newish PPL. One day he wanted to fly somewhere, while I was booked for a trial aerobatics flight at Sywell organised by the BWPA. I said I'd be happy to fly there with him, if he'd wait for the aerobatics and we could then fly back. He agreed, but kept moaning that he'd "feel out of place among all those women". People at the flying club who overheard were sympathetic to his predicament. The fact that I'd spent months at flying clubs and airports among predominantly men without mentioning it seemed to have escaped their notice.
Just a point of interest, I thought.
As the subject was pilots, the engineering equivalent is an aircraft maintenance engineer. In 31 years in the industry I have only worked with one female licensed engineer and two mechanics both ex- navy. I feel that the industry is the poorer for it. These days the work is highly technical and can be very well paid. Maybe endless shift work and the long drag to obtain the licence is offputting.
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I earned the wrath of a small minority of folks by appointing a woman as our new Rector. But she was way above the male candidates in all the skills and abilities I and my colleague thought important for the job.
So yesterday she was installed into the position, and today took her first services. Her skills showed (in dramatic form) and now the objectors are nowhere to be seen.
Sadly, the woman needs to be better than the man at these traditional male roles. I love it when they are!
And of course, she wants me to take her flying to survey the area from above. Beware of orbiting Keef this week!
So yesterday she was installed into the position, and today took her first services. Her skills showed (in dramatic form) and now the objectors are nowhere to be seen.
Sadly, the woman needs to be better than the man at these traditional male roles. I love it when they are!
And of course, she wants me to take her flying to survey the area from above. Beware of orbiting Keef this week!
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I apologize if I missed anything in skimming through the thread.
Why can't people just accept that the reason that there aren't more women flying is because there aren't more women who WANT to fly!!!
I'll not go into many details but I know a few great female pilots. I also know of some who got here by being female.
I don't know ANY male pilots who got there because they were male.
I also know one who, "Would have given up rather than go through what you went through!" and one or two others who wouldn't dream of doing it again (CPL) if they could have their time again!"
Men are GENERALLY more willing to make the sacrifices required for success!
If you really want to get wound up about this then I would also point out that the male brain is better adapted technically for the task at hand!
Why can't people just accept that the reason that there aren't more women flying is because there aren't more women who WANT to fly!!!
I'll not go into many details but I know a few great female pilots. I also know of some who got here by being female.
I don't know ANY male pilots who got there because they were male.
I also know one who, "Would have given up rather than go through what you went through!" and one or two others who wouldn't dream of doing it again (CPL) if they could have their time again!"
Men are GENERALLY more willing to make the sacrifices required for success!
If you really want to get wound up about this then I would also point out that the male brain is better adapted technically for the task at hand!
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hi there
I have been flying for a couple of years and i haven't really had any problems, except when i started my PPL.
i went to do my PPL in the States and i met a girl at the school who advised me not to go with the particular instructor i had been assigned.
She was sudying for her PPL and had this guy and he had not signed her off for her first solo and she had approx. 30 hours??!!!!!!! The CFI intervened and she was completely competent in what she was doing, it boiled down to the fact this guy did not like this student.
She switched instructors and was quite happy.
I arrived at the school and she advised me to change instructors.
She said this guy was a bit of a chauvinist(can't spell)....I didn't listen to her advice and decided to stick to this instructor.
I thought that it was simply a falling out and I didn't know enough about the situation. I didn't think attitudes like that really existed.
To cut a long story short- he was rude, arrogant, barely helped me and it all came to a head when he continuously screamed at me because i couldn't quite get my landings right(on a PA28)...
He had another student at the time and went out of his way to help this student and hardly helped me...
I dumped him and changed instructors and everything was grand after that.
I work in an airline and i know that attitudes like that are in the extreme minority and i'm lucky that i have that knowledge, otherwise if i had another non-aviation related job, i could have been given the mis-perception that this guy was in the majority.
i have had positive flying ever since and this guy definitely had a chip on his shoulder with women....but the one point i would like to make...
If an instructor(or anyone else for that matter) is being really arrogant to you, he could be like that with EVERYONE, and don't immediately think as a woman, he is particularly zoning in on you. There's a difference between people being offensive because they are an asshole and being
offensive because they are chauvinist.
A hard distinction to make maybe, but something to bear in mind.
good luck
pg
I have been flying for a couple of years and i haven't really had any problems, except when i started my PPL.
i went to do my PPL in the States and i met a girl at the school who advised me not to go with the particular instructor i had been assigned.
She was sudying for her PPL and had this guy and he had not signed her off for her first solo and she had approx. 30 hours??!!!!!!! The CFI intervened and she was completely competent in what she was doing, it boiled down to the fact this guy did not like this student.
She switched instructors and was quite happy.
I arrived at the school and she advised me to change instructors.
She said this guy was a bit of a chauvinist(can't spell)....I didn't listen to her advice and decided to stick to this instructor.
I thought that it was simply a falling out and I didn't know enough about the situation. I didn't think attitudes like that really existed.
To cut a long story short- he was rude, arrogant, barely helped me and it all came to a head when he continuously screamed at me because i couldn't quite get my landings right(on a PA28)...
He had another student at the time and went out of his way to help this student and hardly helped me...
I dumped him and changed instructors and everything was grand after that.
I work in an airline and i know that attitudes like that are in the extreme minority and i'm lucky that i have that knowledge, otherwise if i had another non-aviation related job, i could have been given the mis-perception that this guy was in the majority.
i have had positive flying ever since and this guy definitely had a chip on his shoulder with women....but the one point i would like to make...
If an instructor(or anyone else for that matter) is being really arrogant to you, he could be like that with EVERYONE, and don't immediately think as a woman, he is particularly zoning in on you. There's a difference between people being offensive because they are an asshole and being
offensive because they are chauvinist.
A hard distinction to make maybe, but something to bear in mind.
good luck
pg
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Miserlou,
You're entitled to your opinions...stated with no evidence whatsoever to back them up.
And I'm entitled to think they're a bunch of cr@p!
It's just that I like logical discussions you see..must be a female thing I guess.
You're entitled to your opinions...stated with no evidence whatsoever to back them up.
And I'm entitled to think they're a bunch of cr@p!
It's just that I like logical discussions you see..must be a female thing I guess.