Brize Radar

[snchater]

Transiting today between DTY and WOD I was suprised that Brize would not offer a LARS. Requests for FIS were directed to London Info. On questioning the none too busy controller he said he would only offer a service to traffic transiting Brize zone. With poor visibility (@1500m), and funding the RAF through my taxes, I was none too impressed!!

[rustle]

Do you think they might have been busy on UHF?

And that maybe a lot of their normal controllers might be, erm, "offshore" currently?

And why not talk to Luton then Farnborough?

[BEagle]

Please remember that ‘The provision of LARS is at the discretion of the controllers concerned because they may be engaged fully on higher priority tasks. Therefore, the service may not always be available’. The whole question of LARS is currently quite a hot potato; the responsibility of pilots to maintain their own safe separation in VFR is often forgotten by those who think that a RIS absolves them from the responsibility to maintain a proper look out. Personally I would prefer rather better VFR flight following and FIS provision; the UK’s LARS units simply cannot currently provide RIS for every weekend pilot’s wish.

Always plan your flight in the assumption that you will NOT be able to receive a LARS service - particularly in VMC.

Oh - and by the way, Luton no longer offers a LARS service.

[2Donkeys]

Brize are a pretty good unit, and normally very happy to offer a service. It sounds like there were factors at play that you were not aware of.

Best to squawk 7000 Mode C, and since you were IFR (in that vis) obey the appropriate quadrantal and keep a good lookout.

[Fujiflyer]

Snchater, sorry to hear that you had the difficulties you described. I have always found RAF BN absolutely excellent. To be honest I love calling up the LARS units - I know I will inevitably get a thoroughly professional AT service from them.

Funnily, I always seem to be "India Mike" when I need to transit their zone...

Fujif

[snchater]

During my return trip from Sherburn to Shoreham I received an excellent LARS service from Waddington and Farnborough. I am puzzled as to how Brize can effectively unilateraly withdraw their service. London Info is no substitute in the busy airspace to the west of London.

[2Donkeys]

I am puzzled as to how Brize can effectively unilateraly withdraw their service.

LARS is provided when controller workload permits. This means that you don't have a God-given right to the service. If you operate outside controlled airspace, either by choice, or because of licence considerations, then this is the way the game is played.

Even those operating under IFR in the airways system are frequently delayed by slots, in order to ensure that controller capacity is not stretched beyond already ambitious limits.

Take a look at what the AIP says about LARS:

http://www.ais.org.uk/aes/pubs/aip/pdf/enr/2010603.PDF

and note section 5.1 about service availability.

Hope this helps

[Aussie Andy]

I think Brize were probably pretty busy this morning: the Zone frequency 119.0 (we were handed off to this from RAF Benson whilst conducting IMC lesson from there) was difficult to get a word in on at one point. We got a squawk code and then kept ourselves to ourselves.

I wonder whether they might be a bit short-handed, what with a war on and a few of the lads/ladies away, and so maybe they had one fella across two frequencies (Zone and Radar)? Or, as has been said above, maybe they were also busy on UHF: remember they also have to deal with Fairford (USAF, B52) traffic when its NOTAM'd in use, which it obviously is at present.

As has been said above: be clear LARS is not guaranteed and if in Class G we are not entitled to a service at all, whether choosing to fly VFR or IFR... but I thoroughly appreciate the usually excellent service which is usually (9 times out of 10) made available to us by HM forces when asked for it!

So chill brother!

Andy

[Courtman]

1500m viz?

Brize METARs have given CAVOK all day today (12th)...?

[witchdoctor]

You also need to bear in mind that it is a weekend, most military bases tend not to be mob-handed on Sat/Sun. Also, how busy was Oxford? As Oxford ATC have no radar they rely on Brize to provide RIS to their IFR training traffic which continues to fly on a weekend, and they are one of the reasons that this particular neck of the woods is classed as an AIAA. Private pilots unfortunately tend to come a liitle further down the priority list.

Try to be a liitle more charitable to your fellow aviators and the various service providers. Arrogance and ignorance are two things the pilot community can do without.

[snchater]

Despite the vitriol expressed I still think that I am entitled to ask why a service can be withheld without any notification. As a public servant myself I would love to close my hospital's doors whenever we were busy or short staffed but we are expected to cope.

[rustle]

I would love to close my hospital's doors whenever we were busy or short staffed but we are expected to cope

Maybe Brize should have kept you in the hold for 5-6 hours, then got back to you when they could a-la A&E

WRT Luton LARS, AerBabe was right about the Hokey-Cokey then

[Megaton]

Unfortunately, matey, I think you've missed the point. They are not funded to provide a "service" to you even though you pay your taxes. They are funded and established (ie manned) for military tasking with the added bonus for you that, when they can, they'll offer a LARS. Your analogy is based on the assumption that BZN is there for the benefit of GA which it's not. The NHS is, however, there for the benefit of its patients.

[Whipping Boy's SATCO]

snchater, I too think you have missed the point.

In case you hadn't noticed, the military is at war right now. I stand ready to be corrected, but I don't think LARS is high up on the Military Task list.

Perhaps you should read the back page of the latest Flyer magazine where praise is given to the military controllers in recognition of the fact they are working their nuts off right now.

Tax payer, aren't we all? Start paying tax for LARS and then you will be in a position to complain. Maybe we should put an extra 1% on National Insurance contributions?

[PPRuNe Radar]

I still think that I am entitled to ask why a service can be withheld without any notification.

Two Donkeys link to the AIP provides the notification in black and white.