Cessna Skyhawk landing speeds
Cessna Skyhawk landing speeds
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Forgive my confusion but when you say "Top" landing speed I could reply "flaps up, full throttle and eaassse her down".
Being less ignorant I would say I suggest you look in the Flight Manual that legally accompanies every registered a/c.
Being less ignorant I would say I suggest you look in the Flight Manual that legally accompanies every registered a/c.
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Helpful reply monocock - perhaps acock would be a more appropriate handle?
I'm guessing most of us don't have POHs on our office desks, so it seems like here is a reasonable place to ask!! I tend to troll my skyhawk over the numbers at 65kts
I'm guessing most of us don't have POHs on our office desks, so it seems like here is a reasonable place to ask!! I tend to troll my skyhawk over the numbers at 65kts
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Kirstey
That's interesting. I find that 65kias is good for an Archer, but a little high for the M, N and P models of the 172 that I've flown.
I seem to recall 60kias working well, but then again it was a few years ago.
That's interesting. I find that 65kias is good for an Archer, but a little high for the M, N and P models of the 172 that I've flown.
I seem to recall 60kias working well, but then again it was a few years ago.
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At the risk of winning a pedantry medal, isn't the landing speed the speed at touchdown? In which case the answer should be "as slow as possible".
Approach at (say) 60 knots, check, flare, and KEEP PULLING BACK keeping the mains j-u-s-t above the runway (it can take quite a pull a 172 with forward CG to acheive this). Eventually, despite your best efforts to hold it off, the bird will land at the slowest possible speed.
That's how to do it, but to witness the number of 3-point tri-gear arrivals at most GA fields you'd never know it.
SSD
Approach at (say) 60 knots, check, flare, and KEEP PULLING BACK keeping the mains j-u-s-t above the runway (it can take quite a pull a 172 with forward CG to acheive this). Eventually, despite your best efforts to hold it off, the bird will land at the slowest possible speed.
That's how to do it, but to witness the number of 3-point tri-gear arrivals at most GA fields you'd never know it.
SSD
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Kirstey, surprised to hear you think I should be called acock for my post! Perhaps it was not the most sensible answer but I can't say I really understood the question.
Lumpjockey - When you say "landing" speed I assume you mean approach speed which as we all know can be around the 50kias mark with the barn doors fully deployed on a 172.
With thirty degrees selected I normally find that x-ing the threshold at 65 is ideal and gives that little bit of extra speed in case of a sudden stale bit of air in the last stages.
On a x-wind approach (with some sideways crab on) don't forget that your speed over the ground with 65 kias is faster than normal and everything does seem to come up at you that much quicker.
I always make sure that the a/c is trimmed with plenty of nose up on final approach as this makes the flare and hold off so much easier.
Hope this is of some help.
Monocock (AKA ACOCK)
Lumpjockey - When you say "landing" speed I assume you mean approach speed which as we all know can be around the 50kias mark with the barn doors fully deployed on a 172.
With thirty degrees selected I normally find that x-ing the threshold at 65 is ideal and gives that little bit of extra speed in case of a sudden stale bit of air in the last stages.
On a x-wind approach (with some sideways crab on) don't forget that your speed over the ground with 65 kias is faster than normal and everything does seem to come up at you that much quicker.
I always make sure that the a/c is trimmed with plenty of nose up on final approach as this makes the flare and hold off so much easier.
Hope this is of some help.
Monocock (AKA ACOCK)
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My experience is that a PA 28 is very forgiving and can be landed "flat" making a even bad landing appear good. A high wing such as a 172 needs a bit more care, better control of speed and attitude and a proper "flare" otherwise a bounce or ricochet results!
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Sensible posted:
My experience is that a PA 28 is very forgiving and can be landed "flat" making a even bad landing appear good.
......Until the poor sap who may well actually do a good landing has the noseleg collapse 'cause of all those crap flat landings that the those-who-can't-fly have been doing for years. Read about it in the AAIB reports every month.
No, Sensible, it does not 'appear good'. It makes an aviator wince and it adds to all our insurance premiums. Is there something missing here in basic training???
SSD
My experience is that a PA 28 is very forgiving and can be landed "flat" making a even bad landing appear good.
......Until the poor sap who may well actually do a good landing has the noseleg collapse 'cause of all those crap flat landings that the those-who-can't-fly have been doing for years. Read about it in the AAIB reports every month.
No, Sensible, it does not 'appear good'. It makes an aviator wince and it adds to all our insurance premiums. Is there something missing here in basic training???
SSD
Last edited by Shaggy Sheep Driver; 24th Jan 2003 at 12:16.
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I too don't understand what exactly is meant by a "top landing speed": the highest speed that one can drive the aircraft onto the ground without wrecking it?
I agree with Shaggy that too many "pilots" routinely land airplanes using too high a speed and poor technique (landing on all three wheels, or worse, wheelbarrowing). If you think that might apply to you, spend some time learning to fly tailwheel and it should cure you.
I suspect that people often 'land hot' because they are afraid of stalling. Adding "5 knots for the wife and kids" is NOT the answer ... precise speed control at the recommended approach speed is.
The 172 will 'float' if the approach is flown too fast. Keep that up and it's really only a matter of time before you go off the end of the runway.
I agree with Shaggy that too many "pilots" routinely land airplanes using too high a speed and poor technique (landing on all three wheels, or worse, wheelbarrowing). If you think that might apply to you, spend some time learning to fly tailwheel and it should cure you.
I suspect that people often 'land hot' because they are afraid of stalling. Adding "5 knots for the wife and kids" is NOT the answer ... precise speed control at the recommended approach speed is.
The 172 will 'float' if the approach is flown too fast. Keep that up and it's really only a matter of time before you go off the end of the runway.
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Flight Manual that legally accompanies every registered a/c
Which leads me on to a question. Can you buy POH's anywhere? Without accompanying aircraft, that is. Might be a very expensive book otherwise.
Grandpa Aerotart
Get out the POH.
Use graphs to calculate stall speed in landing config at a reasonable (ie Typical) min landing weight and max landing weight. You'll probably find in something like a C172 that there's only 3 or 4 knots difference.
Take the lower figure and multiply by 1.3.
Be at this speed and no more at 50' in other than gusty winds. If there is a gusty wind, direction irrelevant except tailwind, add 1/2 the gust value up to a limit of about 7kts...ie wind 10 gusting 20 add 7kts...wind 7 gusting 15 add 3 or 4 kts.
At 50'/Vref gently close throttle and land with the stall warning chirping (remember stall warning happens a few knots above stall) on one or both main wheels. Hold nosewheel off and gently lower to ground. Just keep applying more of whatever control inputs you had at touchdown. Apply very gentle braking as dictated by remaining LDA.
What's the landing speed?
I have no idea...never look at the ASI in the last 50'.
Chuck.
PS. If the POH is 20 miles away at the Flying School ring them and ask that they fax you a photocopy of the stall speed graphs.
Use graphs to calculate stall speed in landing config at a reasonable (ie Typical) min landing weight and max landing weight. You'll probably find in something like a C172 that there's only 3 or 4 knots difference.
Take the lower figure and multiply by 1.3.
Be at this speed and no more at 50' in other than gusty winds. If there is a gusty wind, direction irrelevant except tailwind, add 1/2 the gust value up to a limit of about 7kts...ie wind 10 gusting 20 add 7kts...wind 7 gusting 15 add 3 or 4 kts.
At 50'/Vref gently close throttle and land with the stall warning chirping (remember stall warning happens a few knots above stall) on one or both main wheels. Hold nosewheel off and gently lower to ground. Just keep applying more of whatever control inputs you had at touchdown. Apply very gentle braking as dictated by remaining LDA.
What's the landing speed?
I have no idea...never look at the ASI in the last 50'.
Chuck.
PS. If the POH is 20 miles away at the Flying School ring them and ask that they fax you a photocopy of the stall speed graphs.
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Top Landing Speed for a 172?
You can land it on the tip of the spinner, at a speed somewhere round Vne, Once.
Seriously, the question should be, top landind speed on the mainwheels. Ive seen people land on the nosewheel at 80 knots. SCARY!!!!!
Cheers
You can land it on the tip of the spinner, at a speed somewhere round Vne, Once.
Seriously, the question should be, top landind speed on the mainwheels. Ive seen people land on the nosewheel at 80 knots. SCARY!!!!!
Cheers
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Are we missing the point here? Isn't the top landing speed the speed at which the aircraft stalls which is the same as the minimum landing speed? During the landing, the stick/yoke should be progressively held back until the point when the aircraft drops onto the runway. Any higher speed then the aircraft is not landed but forced down with all the associated smoke and bounce!
From my own experience, my landings improved after I had obtained a tailwheel endorsement. I would recommend tailwheel experience for everyone even if they had no intention of continuing to fly tailwheel aircraft if only just to perfect landing techniques, it's real fun and makes it much easier to land nosewheel aircraft afterwards.
From my own experience, my landings improved after I had obtained a tailwheel endorsement. I would recommend tailwheel experience for everyone even if they had no intention of continuing to fly tailwheel aircraft if only just to perfect landing techniques, it's real fun and makes it much easier to land nosewheel aircraft afterwards.
Last edited by Sensible; 25th Jan 2003 at 11:54.
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Firstly thanks for all those who replied. As you may or may not have guessed, I'm not a pilot! But perhaps my use of words wasn't the best, but why didn't you TRY to understand what I meant? Landing speed for me is the speed you have whilst landing! Crashing speed would be something else wouldn't it, and for that I would have asked!
For someone who has no knowledge of V-speeds and the correct usage of the proper aviation jargon, give us a break yeah!
So, the lowest speed would be the stalling speed I'm now under the impression of? Thank you. Around the 50 mark. Cool.
LJ.
For someone who has no knowledge of V-speeds and the correct usage of the proper aviation jargon, give us a break yeah!
So, the lowest speed would be the stalling speed I'm now under the impression of? Thank you. Around the 50 mark. Cool.
LJ.
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Ahhhhh, that puts a different perspective on the whole thing L.J. I think that in the absence of information to the contrary, I for one assumed that you had a basic flying knowledge.
Ok, lets start again. The trick of landing an airplane is to manage the approach speed of an aircraft so that when passing over the threshold (the numbers at the end of the runway) the airspeed is close to the speed at which the airplane will no longer fly. At this point, the power has already been set to idle (throttle closed) and then as the airplane starts to sink, the yoke is slowly pulled back to hold the airplane off the runway and so it enters a nose high attitude (the flare) and therefore the wing wheels land before the nose wheel. With a tailwheel airplane (old ones mainly) there is no nose wheel and then the idea is to hold the airplane just off the runway until it is unable to fly because of it’s low speed and then the whole airplane drops onto the runway and all three wheels touch at the same time. It is important to land a tailwheel airplane correctly otherwise the propeller is very likely to hit the ground and that becomes very expensive!
So in answer to your question, the landing speed is the speed at which the airplane cannot hold itself in the air any longer and drops the last couple of feet onto the runway. That will depend on the aircraft type, weight, altitude, temperature and wind etc. I for one have never checked the average sort of speed because at this time I am looking down towards the end of the runway to maintain the centre line and adjust my altitude and attitude for landing and if landing on grass, potholes etc!
Hope this helps!
Ok, lets start again. The trick of landing an airplane is to manage the approach speed of an aircraft so that when passing over the threshold (the numbers at the end of the runway) the airspeed is close to the speed at which the airplane will no longer fly. At this point, the power has already been set to idle (throttle closed) and then as the airplane starts to sink, the yoke is slowly pulled back to hold the airplane off the runway and so it enters a nose high attitude (the flare) and therefore the wing wheels land before the nose wheel. With a tailwheel airplane (old ones mainly) there is no nose wheel and then the idea is to hold the airplane just off the runway until it is unable to fly because of it’s low speed and then the whole airplane drops onto the runway and all three wheels touch at the same time. It is important to land a tailwheel airplane correctly otherwise the propeller is very likely to hit the ground and that becomes very expensive!
So in answer to your question, the landing speed is the speed at which the airplane cannot hold itself in the air any longer and drops the last couple of feet onto the runway. That will depend on the aircraft type, weight, altitude, temperature and wind etc. I for one have never checked the average sort of speed because at this time I am looking down towards the end of the runway to maintain the centre line and adjust my altitude and attitude for landing and if landing on grass, potholes etc!
Hope this helps!
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Hi Lumpjockey
You may benefit from reading the fantastic book by Alex Kimbel: Think like a bird.
In here he describes in truly fascinating fashion his early flying career and explaines some of the fundamentals of aircraft handling.
You can get it through amazon.
FD
PS: Excellent read for all others as well.
Anyway approach speed is 1.3 * Vstall (+10 if required) from which light aircraft round out, flare and land at near stall speed. Vstall varies with weight and CofG
You may benefit from reading the fantastic book by Alex Kimbel: Think like a bird.
In here he describes in truly fascinating fashion his early flying career and explaines some of the fundamentals of aircraft handling.
You can get it through amazon.
FD
PS: Excellent read for all others as well.
Anyway approach speed is 1.3 * Vstall (+10 if required) from which light aircraft round out, flare and land at near stall speed. Vstall varies with weight and CofG
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Going through the checklist directly out of the 1979 Cessna 172N POH (copy picked up from local airport shop) I quote:
"Normal Landing
1. Airspeed -- 60-70 KIAS (flaps UP).
2. Wing Flaps -- AS DESIRED (below 85 KIAS).
3. Airspeed -- 55-65 KIAS (flaps DOWN)."
touchdown, etc.
My interpretation of this is that the top landing speed with flaps operable is 65 knots. When the flaps are inoperable (or you're practicing a flaps-up landing) that top speed goes up to 70 due to the higher stalling speed with flaps retracted. Anything over 65 with a 172 and flaps down and you'll learn how well a high-wing floats in ground effect.
"Normal Landing
1. Airspeed -- 60-70 KIAS (flaps UP).
2. Wing Flaps -- AS DESIRED (below 85 KIAS).
3. Airspeed -- 55-65 KIAS (flaps DOWN)."
touchdown, etc.
My interpretation of this is that the top landing speed with flaps operable is 65 knots. When the flaps are inoperable (or you're practicing a flaps-up landing) that top speed goes up to 70 due to the higher stalling speed with flaps retracted. Anything over 65 with a 172 and flaps down and you'll learn how well a high-wing floats in ground effect.