Newcastle International Squeezes GA
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Newcastle International Squeezes GA
The future looks bleek for GA at EGNT.
The charges are going up to a minimum of £25+VAT per movement (including touch and go s). This will cripple flight training.
For visiting aircraft there is mandatory handling by Samson on top of the landing fee.
The airport state they are losing money on GA, but it is difficult to see how.
1) There is no commercial demand for the South sites at the moment. Gill hangars have remained unoccupied since they went into liquidation, and the plans to build a Britannia engineering facility collapsed several years ago. The demolition of the Skyways hangar made room for a car park which is always empty.
2) Services such as ATC, Fire and security are required with or without GA, as are all the maintenance facilities. The only additional cost is for maintenace of the Bellman hangar, and the airport has indicated that it will not be spending any money to maintain this. (It hasn't done anything to maintain for the past decade so nothing new there! despite the fact that it is full of fee paying private aircraft!) Commercial moverments almost always take priority over GA, and circuit training is already difficult with students getting long holds and plenty of orbitting. (Despite the fact that most ATCOs try very hard to get us in and out as expeditiously as possible).
The sad fact is that like so many other medium sized airports, management at newcastle are going to squeeze GA out because of a short sighted approach to the overall benefits of GA to the community.
One excuse cited by the airport is to bring it into line with other similar sized airports. What they forget is that incomes, land prices etc are not the same in the NE, and it would be a great shame if access to recreational flying and flight training became restricted to the very wealthy.
Newcastle aero club is characterised by attracting people from all walks of life, and it would be a great shame if this were to change. The local councils still have some interest in the airport and should act to prevent "social exclusion". Were this to be almost any other minority group the politically correct would be falling over backwards with support.
Unfortunately there are very limted alternative options for private flying in the NE. Lets hope that someone with deep pockets can invest in a purpose run GA field in the N NE. Perhaps MOD would like to donate Ouston (Hopefully the nukes have all gone now).
The charges are going up to a minimum of £25+VAT per movement (including touch and go s). This will cripple flight training.
For visiting aircraft there is mandatory handling by Samson on top of the landing fee.
The airport state they are losing money on GA, but it is difficult to see how.
1) There is no commercial demand for the South sites at the moment. Gill hangars have remained unoccupied since they went into liquidation, and the plans to build a Britannia engineering facility collapsed several years ago. The demolition of the Skyways hangar made room for a car park which is always empty.
2) Services such as ATC, Fire and security are required with or without GA, as are all the maintenance facilities. The only additional cost is for maintenace of the Bellman hangar, and the airport has indicated that it will not be spending any money to maintain this. (It hasn't done anything to maintain for the past decade so nothing new there! despite the fact that it is full of fee paying private aircraft!) Commercial moverments almost always take priority over GA, and circuit training is already difficult with students getting long holds and plenty of orbitting. (Despite the fact that most ATCOs try very hard to get us in and out as expeditiously as possible).
The sad fact is that like so many other medium sized airports, management at newcastle are going to squeeze GA out because of a short sighted approach to the overall benefits of GA to the community.
One excuse cited by the airport is to bring it into line with other similar sized airports. What they forget is that incomes, land prices etc are not the same in the NE, and it would be a great shame if access to recreational flying and flight training became restricted to the very wealthy.
Newcastle aero club is characterised by attracting people from all walks of life, and it would be a great shame if this were to change. The local councils still have some interest in the airport and should act to prevent "social exclusion". Were this to be almost any other minority group the politically correct would be falling over backwards with support.
Unfortunately there are very limted alternative options for private flying in the NE. Lets hope that someone with deep pockets can invest in a purpose run GA field in the N NE. Perhaps MOD would like to donate Ouston (Hopefully the nukes have all gone now).
PPruNaholic!
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Well, I suppose with charges like that the chances of guys like me bothering to plan a trip there will have diminished... counterproductive or what?
Hard to believe that they are "losing money on GA" - their marginal costs for supporting GA (given that the field is primarily open to service commercial traffic, so most costs remain even if GA traffic reduces) will be neglibile I'd have thought?
T*ssers!
Hard to believe that they are "losing money on GA" - their marginal costs for supporting GA (given that the field is primarily open to service commercial traffic, so most costs remain even if GA traffic reduces) will be neglibile I'd have thought?
T*ssers!
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Somebody up there (Newcastle, not heaven...), doesn't like GA. First we have SB pi55ing all over it, now the airport 'authority' decide to impose sanctions on pleasure seekers.
It's a long way away from NVQ's isn't it? No Government support, no Law Enforcement support, now the bl00dy airfields don't even want us there...
I give up
Not really, but you know what I mean.
It's a long way away from NVQ's isn't it? No Government support, no Law Enforcement support, now the bl00dy airfields don't even want us there...
I give up
Not really, but you know what I mean.
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It does seem odd that Newcastle want to be in line with other airports maybe they should look at Manchester (a slightly larger airport) which is actualy encoraging GA and opening new facilities.
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Now I am confused. Does 
then :o signify irony (or am I reading too much into all this?)
The Newcastle issue is just the sort of thing that Martin Robinson does get involved in. However, this time round there's been no complaint from any AOPA member.
It is not that AOPA is reluctant to represent the broader piloting community, nor that the organisation is slow in coming forward. However, resources are limited by the relatively small percentage of pilots who become members ('till they find themselves in planning or CAA Enforcement grief!)
In my case, I think that shelling out the equivalent of half an hour's club aircraft rental on buying representation and potential legal assistance is money well spent.
Hey, and this isn't an ad because I didn't mention the magazine - doh!
then :o signify irony (or am I reading too much into all this?)The Newcastle issue is just the sort of thing that Martin Robinson does get involved in. However, this time round there's been no complaint from any AOPA member.
It is not that AOPA is reluctant to represent the broader piloting community, nor that the organisation is slow in coming forward. However, resources are limited by the relatively small percentage of pilots who become members ('till they find themselves in planning or CAA Enforcement grief!)
In my case, I think that shelling out the equivalent of half an hour's club aircraft rental on buying representation and potential legal assistance is money well spent.
Hey, and this isn't an ad because I didn't mention the magazine - doh!
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Sad for the aeroclub. I think it used to be their airfield!
I gather that the GA flyers are not the only ones suffering at EGNT. Rumour has it that ATCOs and others are suffering under the new management.
Pehaps someone should start a save EGNT campaign?
I gather that the GA flyers are not the only ones suffering at EGNT. Rumour has it that ATCOs and others are suffering under the new management.
Pehaps someone should start a save EGNT campaign?
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You are correct neutron....GA are not the only people who have suffered at the hands of EGNT management.
45 years in residence and after sterling service to the airport and surrounding community 733 (Newcastle Airport) Squadron Air Training Corps were thrown out on their ears!
Absolute disgrace.....what message does that send out! Aviation minded young men and women should be supported and applauded by EGNT management not kicked in the teeth.
45 years in residence and after sterling service to the airport and surrounding community 733 (Newcastle Airport) Squadron Air Training Corps were thrown out on their ears!
Absolute disgrace.....what message does that send out! Aviation minded young men and women should be supported and applauded by EGNT management not kicked in the teeth.
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Doc:
Some interesting and extremely valid points, it's going from one extreme to the other at Newcastle.
Did AOPA not become involved with the initial hike up in landing fees?
I think we all agree the short sighted management at EGNT are to blame but like "The Doc" quotes - who does cooks figures to say GA costs them?
After Martin Ballinger's "sizeable" investmant in the south side, I bet he won't be a happy man if GA is squeezed out as his Samson Jet Centre handles around 95% of the "biz jet" movements.
Some interesting and extremely valid points, it's going from one extreme to the other at Newcastle.
Did AOPA not become involved with the initial hike up in landing fees?
I think we all agree the short sighted management at EGNT are to blame but like "The Doc" quotes - who does cooks figures to say GA costs them?
After Martin Ballinger's "sizeable" investmant in the south side, I bet he won't be a happy man if GA is squeezed out as his Samson Jet Centre handles around 95% of the "biz jet" movements.
Last edited by TOPJET973K; 1st Jun 2005 at 17:18.
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Hi All
Have we not been in this situation previously when fee's were discounted to NAC, and then hiked up to full price.
As stated the council have an interest in NIA and NFS does supply a lesuire facility and what about the people who have invested time and money in upgrading all the new facilitys.
Who can we contact in the council ?
AOPA may be a lifeline but as stated above people only join when they need some help.
Regards all
Have we not been in this situation previously when fee's were discounted to NAC, and then hiked up to full price.
As stated the council have an interest in NIA and NFS does supply a lesuire facility and what about the people who have invested time and money in upgrading all the new facilitys.
Who can we contact in the council ?
AOPA may be a lifeline but as stated above people only join when they need some help.
Regards all
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Flew to Newcastle last week to pick someone up. No fuel taken on, nor even a cup of coffee from "handling agents" Samsons (one wasn't offered in any case).
VFR in and out. As straightforward as it gets.
Total time on the ground of about 25 mins. Worked out at approximately £2 per minute !
Next time they can get the train .... :-)
FF
VFR in and out. As straightforward as it gets.
Total time on the ground of about 25 mins. Worked out at approximately £2 per minute !
Next time they can get the train .... :-)
FF
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Hi all,
Well, I'm a bit gutted at that news, i'm just glad I've finished doing circuits now. I don't even want to imagine how much this will increase the cost of doing a PPL at EGNT now.
Paying £220 for 1 hour of circuits in the peak time was bad enough (and that was with a reduced T&G fee).
Contacts for the Council in the Woolsington area on the attached link.
http://www.newcastle.gov.uk/councill...n?opendocument
Not sure if these are the right people to speak to but it will be a start.
Big Steve
Well, I'm a bit gutted at that news, i'm just glad I've finished doing circuits now. I don't even want to imagine how much this will increase the cost of doing a PPL at EGNT now.
Paying £220 for 1 hour of circuits in the peak time was bad enough (and that was with a reduced T&G fee).
Contacts for the Council in the Woolsington area on the attached link.
http://www.newcastle.gov.uk/councill...n?opendocument
Not sure if these are the right people to speak to but it will be a start.
Big Steve
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Doh!
Hehe, was in a bit of a mood for a wee while there, guess we should have checked the dates first before posting away in a fit of rage.
Heart beat is returning to normal now.
Big Steve
Hehe, was in a bit of a mood for a wee while there, guess we should have checked the dates first before posting away in a fit of rage.
Heart beat is returning to normal now.
Big Steve
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Glad that someone has indeed checked the date of my original post.
However the problem of landing fees remains, and as we approach the summer months the "peak" period charging will again hit PPLs and particularly students in the circuit.
The problem is confounded by the fact that there is a great deal of confusion about when the peak period starts and finishes.
If this policy continues it will make it impossible to avoid operating during peak during any of the summer months.
Having recently returned from Naples Florida, I am certain that there is room for increasing the efficiency in use of the runway. As I have said before many of our ATCOs are excellent at sequencing us in (and those who try and occassionaly misjudge it and send us back to base off finals always deserve our admiration for trying to get us in).
What is really needed is a taxiway even if only grass on the South side to prevent us having to backtrack down the runway.
I must make clear, the views expressed are my own, and do not necessarily represent the views of any group or organisation with which I am affliated
However the problem of landing fees remains, and as we approach the summer months the "peak" period charging will again hit PPLs and particularly students in the circuit.
The problem is confounded by the fact that there is a great deal of confusion about when the peak period starts and finishes.
If this policy continues it will make it impossible to avoid operating during peak during any of the summer months.
Having recently returned from Naples Florida, I am certain that there is room for increasing the efficiency in use of the runway. As I have said before many of our ATCOs are excellent at sequencing us in (and those who try and occassionaly misjudge it and send us back to base off finals always deserve our admiration for trying to get us in).
What is really needed is a taxiway even if only grass on the South side to prevent us having to backtrack down the runway.
I must make clear, the views expressed are my own, and do not necessarily represent the views of any group or organisation with which I am affliated
Last edited by martinidoc; 4th Jun 2005 at 16:45.
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For visiting aircraft Samson charge their fee and provide nothing in return! The best thing is to avoid Newcastle and go to Teeside when touring - an extra 35 miles or so, but you are made welcome with much cheaper landing fees and good food!
Guess thats OK for us tourers but doesn't help the local club and people wanting to fly from Newcastle!
Guess thats OK for us tourers but doesn't help the local club and people wanting to fly from Newcastle!
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or, if you don't need to use Newcastle, there is Eshott to the north of Newcastle, not sure if there any restictions on visiting aircraft there though. Also Currock Hill is to the west of Newcastle
FC
FC
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Bahrain Lad
I think what we all want is a fair deal and maximum utilisation of what we all recognise to be an increasingly precious resource.
What I was suggesting has in any case been muted in the NIA "masterplan", and a southside taxiway would also help other GA movements on the southside.
Rednine
I will just say that the club house and food and welcome has dramatically improved and I hope you will try it next time you're at NCL
I think what we all want is a fair deal and maximum utilisation of what we all recognise to be an increasingly precious resource.
What I was suggesting has in any case been muted in the NIA "masterplan", and a southside taxiway would also help other GA movements on the southside.
Rednine
I will just say that the club house and food and welcome has dramatically improved and I hope you will try it next time you're at NCL