Firefighters strike- will it affect GA?
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Firefighters strike- will it affect GA?
Have just seen on TV the firefighters strike due for october & november, but my question is:
Will the fire fighters strike affect the fire/rescue services for GA/Major airports, or are they run by seperate organisations?
Just a general concern, after it was highlighted on the news that it may disrupt airports?
Will the fire fighters strike affect the fire/rescue services for GA/Major airports, or are they run by seperate organisations?
Just a general concern, after it was highlighted on the news that it may disrupt airports?
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I remember a fire-fighters strike affecting Manchester International - it became the biggest unlicensed airfield in the UK at the time.
No airline traffic what-so-ever. General Aviation able to do touch and go's (paying for each, of course) if they had a full pilot licence.
The schools on the field had to depart MAN, fly 12 miles North to Barton, do a touch and go there to "start the lesson from a licensed airfield" - do another touch and go at Barton on the way back "to finish at a licensed airfield" - then position the 12 miles back to MAN with the instructor flying (not loggable).
No airline traffic what-so-ever. General Aviation able to do touch and go's (paying for each, of course) if they had a full pilot licence.
The schools on the field had to depart MAN, fly 12 miles North to Barton, do a touch and go there to "start the lesson from a licensed airfield" - do another touch and go at Barton on the way back "to finish at a licensed airfield" - then position the 12 miles back to MAN with the instructor flying (not loggable).
Firefighters Strike
Any passenger carrying airport must have it's own fire fighters (in varying quantities and with assorted requirements for the equipment they must have) to comply with the terms of it's license based on the category of airport it is and all that is set out in CAP 168.
A GA field also has it's own first response fire team and as far as I know that is part of it's license requirements. No doubt they would expect to call for support off the local County Brigade if things got out of hand.
Personally I would feel more at risk (on a statistical basis) in a car on the M25 with no fire brigade to put out the conflagration and release me than in the Cherokee at Fairoaks where at least there is somebody with a truck and a few extingushers at hand.
A GA field also has it's own first response fire team and as far as I know that is part of it's license requirements. No doubt they would expect to call for support off the local County Brigade if things got out of hand.
Personally I would feel more at risk (on a statistical basis) in a car on the M25 with no fire brigade to put out the conflagration and release me than in the Cherokee at Fairoaks where at least there is somebody with a truck and a few extingushers at hand.
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The fire strike may affect airports.
Bigger airports where passenger aircraft fly into are all given a fire category depending, as already stated, on the type of fire equipment and personnel on the field.
For instance the airport where I work is category 8 ( 9 being the highest). This cat 8 means that aircraft with overall length of 49m up to but not including 61m and maximum fuselage width of 7 m can use the airport. Thats not to say larger aircraft cant use it, and indeed the cat can be upgraded to cat 9 when required.
As far as Im aware these categorys are based on outside services being available to attend bigger/more serious inccidences, and all airports have standing aggreements with local fire/police and ambulance services. Every time a full emergency or aircraft accident is innitiated the outside services automatically respond, no matter if the emergency is on for a B767 or for a C152.
Lets just hope this strike isn't going to last too long!
Bigger airports where passenger aircraft fly into are all given a fire category depending, as already stated, on the type of fire equipment and personnel on the field.
For instance the airport where I work is category 8 ( 9 being the highest). This cat 8 means that aircraft with overall length of 49m up to but not including 61m and maximum fuselage width of 7 m can use the airport. Thats not to say larger aircraft cant use it, and indeed the cat can be upgraded to cat 9 when required.
As far as Im aware these categorys are based on outside services being available to attend bigger/more serious inccidences, and all airports have standing aggreements with local fire/police and ambulance services. Every time a full emergency or aircraft accident is innitiated the outside services automatically respond, no matter if the emergency is on for a B767 or for a C152.
Lets just hope this strike isn't going to last too long!
Last edited by ATCbabe; 20th Oct 2002 at 11:02.
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GoneWest,
The dispute you describe at MAN was the Airport Firefighter, who walked out. As there was no fire cover at the airport, it became unlicensed, hence no commercial movements. Airport firefighters are normally employed by the Airport Authority or by a contractor operating on behalf of the Authority, therefore they are not involved in this dispute.
ATCbabe,
The airport fire category is defined solely by the personnel, equipment etc directly available to the Airport fire service themselves. The Merseyside fire brigade held a series of strikes last year and apart from not being able to use the direct line to the LFB (because they were not there) and having to use a special number to 'Green Goddes HQ', the effect on LJLA was sweet FA.
The dispute you describe at MAN was the Airport Firefighter, who walked out. As there was no fire cover at the airport, it became unlicensed, hence no commercial movements. Airport firefighters are normally employed by the Airport Authority or by a contractor operating on behalf of the Authority, therefore they are not involved in this dispute.
ATCbabe,
The airport fire category is defined solely by the personnel, equipment etc directly available to the Airport fire service themselves. The Merseyside fire brigade held a series of strikes last year and apart from not being able to use the direct line to the LFB (because they were not there) and having to use a special number to 'Green Goddes HQ', the effect on LJLA was sweet FA.
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Does anybody know where to find a list of the categories ATCBabe and Bill talk about?
The small licensed field I fly from is category 'special', I beleive. Always wondered what this means. (Might be to do with the fact that when the guy who drives the emergency truck goes out to get a sandwich, the field becomes unlicensed).
The small licensed field I fly from is category 'special', I beleive. Always wondered what this means. (Might be to do with the fact that when the guy who drives the emergency truck goes out to get a sandwich, the field becomes unlicensed).
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Knobbygb,
All the requirements can be found in CAP168, Licensing of Aerodromes. A pdf version can be downloaded from the CAA website by going to publications then clicking on the Aerodromes option.
All the requirements can be found in CAP168, Licensing of Aerodromes. A pdf version can be downloaded from the CAA website by going to publications then clicking on the Aerodromes option.
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Hooligan Bill you are correct in what you are saying. I've done a spot of research and it seems that most of the larger airports all have contingency plans for when this strike does take place.
These range from having greater water reserves to having a few extra appliances on site and available for use. This should mean that for the majority of airports (certainly for the passenger ones), there should be no downgrades in fire cat needed.
From what I understand there only becomes a problem if something goes wrong with any of the appliances, then a possible downgrade may be required, but that is what would happen even with external fire services available.
These range from having greater water reserves to having a few extra appliances on site and available for use. This should mean that for the majority of airports (certainly for the passenger ones), there should be no downgrades in fire cat needed.
From what I understand there only becomes a problem if something goes wrong with any of the appliances, then a possible downgrade may be required, but that is what would happen even with external fire services available.
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The CAA wrote sometime ago to Aerodrome Licensees laying out the contingency requirements in event of a National/Local strike. (Letter in office) I am not AFS personnel however.
The Airport Fire service is seen as the initial response in a major incident - at Full Emergency status or above, most airports will have support from their local authority services. An airport service will discharge its entire "on board" foam/water supply in a very short time and if the fire is not extinguished / damped down to enable rescue, support for additional water supplies has to come from an external source...........or from an on airfield supply very rapidly.
Whether or not each airfield can attain the required standards remains to be seen. I will be landing in the U.K. in an aircraft requiring CAT 8 cover on one of the planned strike days
The Airport Fire service is seen as the initial response in a major incident - at Full Emergency status or above, most airports will have support from their local authority services. An airport service will discharge its entire "on board" foam/water supply in a very short time and if the fire is not extinguished / damped down to enable rescue, support for additional water supplies has to come from an external source...........or from an on airfield supply very rapidly.
Whether or not each airfield can attain the required standards remains to be seen. I will be landing in the U.K. in an aircraft requiring CAT 8 cover on one of the planned strike days
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Sharpshot is correct.
The primary task of any airfield/airport fire crew is to save lives, if necessary they will expend all their media (foam and power reserves) doing that.
The local authority fire sevice have the responsibility for preventing the consequences of any incident spreading any further.
This is where the airport PR machine will go into overdrive as the industrial action draws nearer;
What every airport in the UK has failed to tell the travelling public is that without the local authority fire services, their is a very serious risk that the airport fire service would not be able to cope with a fire in a public area such as a large terminal building / cargo area/ fuel farm etc.
God forbid that it should happen, but .............
The primary task of any airfield/airport fire crew is to save lives, if necessary they will expend all their media (foam and power reserves) doing that.
The local authority fire sevice have the responsibility for preventing the consequences of any incident spreading any further.
This is where the airport PR machine will go into overdrive as the industrial action draws nearer;
What every airport in the UK has failed to tell the travelling public is that without the local authority fire services, their is a very serious risk that the airport fire service would not be able to cope with a fire in a public area such as a large terminal building / cargo area/ fuel farm etc.
God forbid that it should happen, but .............
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Niknak,
Did you have to mention the fuel farm...........
However, your comments are absolutely on the mark.
See what comes of the COBRA get - together and ensuing advice
Did you have to mention the fuel farm...........
However, your comments are absolutely on the mark.
See what comes of the COBRA get - together and ensuing advice
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Health & Safety at Work?
Since that last national fire service strike, some 25 years ago, the Health and Safety at Work regulations, that cover all workers, has altered dramatically.
As I understand it, a worker in ANY industry, is entitled to walk out if he has due cause to believe that his health & safety at work is being compromised. His employer cannot discipline him for this.
So, after reading all the above posts, does this mean that, say baggage handlers at a major airport, have less than optimum fire cover?
e.g. the Airport Fire Service is using all its resourses to rescue the passengers & crew from a B747, that has run into the terminal building. Presumably, it would usually be up to the local authority's fire brigade (that will be on strike) to rescue all the passengers & workers (including those baggage handlers) from the terminal.
Secondary striking in the UK, was mostly banned a decade ago. However it does seem possible that any workers, who are sympathetic to the Firefighters, could walk out, using the excuse of Health & Safety at Work.
As I understand it, a worker in ANY industry, is entitled to walk out if he has due cause to believe that his health & safety at work is being compromised. His employer cannot discipline him for this.
So, after reading all the above posts, does this mean that, say baggage handlers at a major airport, have less than optimum fire cover?
e.g. the Airport Fire Service is using all its resourses to rescue the passengers & crew from a B747, that has run into the terminal building. Presumably, it would usually be up to the local authority's fire brigade (that will be on strike) to rescue all the passengers & workers (including those baggage handlers) from the terminal.
Secondary striking in the UK, was mostly banned a decade ago. However it does seem possible that any workers, who are sympathetic to the Firefighters, could walk out, using the excuse of Health & Safety at Work.
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distaff_beancounter
I understand that those are exactly the grounds for some railway staff refusing to work and some London Underground stations being closed during the firefighters' strike...
I understand that those are exactly the grounds for some railway staff refusing to work and some London Underground stations being closed during the firefighters' strike...
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re Stansted
Telephoned Ryanair to find out whether they would be affected by fireman's strike next week. They said they had no information, and that I would have to telephone Stansted to find out whether Ryanair would be affected!
Stansted much more helpful. Confirmed that their firemen would not be on strike, and that the local brigades were largely "retained" firemen and would therefore also not be on strike.
Hope they are right!
Stansted much more helpful. Confirmed that their firemen would not be on strike, and that the local brigades were largely "retained" firemen and would therefore also not be on strike.
Hope they are right!
