Getting Started Renting
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Getting Started Renting
On the shaky premise that I pass my skill test this week, my thoughts are now turning to the best way of getting flying and building my hours.
I have been learning to fly at Denham which, as I live in the centre of London, seems to be my nearest aerodrome apart from Elstree. I've been learning on a C152 to date, but most flying friends have suggested I get rated on a PA28 after I pass.
I'm not 100% sure on the general availability of PA28s at Denham, but as they only have 2 I'm guessing its not going to be great - certainly not at the weekends which is the only time I can fly.
Does it make any sense to join 2 clubs and hire from both? I'm presuming I need to add a duel-check with the new club and pay their membership fee, but I guess thats not a huge deterrent. Although I think you've got to stay "current" with every club, so I'm not sure if that complicates things to a point where the idea no longer makes sense?
Anyway - any advice on this very much appreciated.
I have been learning to fly at Denham which, as I live in the centre of London, seems to be my nearest aerodrome apart from Elstree. I've been learning on a C152 to date, but most flying friends have suggested I get rated on a PA28 after I pass.
I'm not 100% sure on the general availability of PA28s at Denham, but as they only have 2 I'm guessing its not going to be great - certainly not at the weekends which is the only time I can fly.
Does it make any sense to join 2 clubs and hire from both? I'm presuming I need to add a duel-check with the new club and pay their membership fee, but I guess thats not a huge deterrent. Although I think you've got to stay "current" with every club, so I'm not sure if that complicates things to a point where the idea no longer makes sense?
Anyway - any advice on this very much appreciated.
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Manchester, UK
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Well, depending on how much flying you want to do, you really should look at joining a syndicate if you can. Anything over 25 hours per annum on an SEP merits it, plus you'll get the chance to develop your skills potentially with other group members.
However, it's worth noting that a lot of groups require a minimum of 100 hrs, therefore you'll maybe have to pay twice as much for the moment by renting...
So, you need to do some research on what's available and how easy it is to book, and on that business of remaining current, different clubs have different rules (some imposed by insurance restrictions, some by club policy).
Or you could see if anyone's renting out privately... So it's down to you to an extent, you'll have to mooch around, pick up on what's going on at the local airfields (plus of course some kind soul here on pprune or maybe on www.flyer.co.uk forum - which has a section on group flying - will chip in withj some useful info).
Good Luck !
However, it's worth noting that a lot of groups require a minimum of 100 hrs, therefore you'll maybe have to pay twice as much for the moment by renting...
So, you need to do some research on what's available and how easy it is to book, and on that business of remaining current, different clubs have different rules (some imposed by insurance restrictions, some by club policy).
Or you could see if anyone's renting out privately... So it's down to you to an extent, you'll have to mooch around, pick up on what's going on at the local airfields (plus of course some kind soul here on pprune or maybe on www.flyer.co.uk forum - which has a section on group flying - will chip in withj some useful info).
Good Luck !
Join Date: Apr 2002
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CS, I assume you're at the club on the North Side of Denham. The one on the other side of the airfield (being careful not to name names) has a number of PA28's (both Warriors and Cadets) which can be rented. As you say, you would need a check out and pay the membership fee, as well as the rental costs.
Join Date: Jul 2001
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Each club will tend to have it's own rules on currency on type, but I've not heard of any club that insists that your are current on their own aircraft. i.e. if you've flown the same variant of PA28 somewhere else in the last n days, the club will regard you as being current.
Join Date: Oct 2002
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I'm in much the same position having trained on C-152's in Florida I considered converting to PA-28s as that's all they have in Denham and a pilot friend of mine flies them so thought it would be nice if we could share the flying. Although the cost of doing it (in the region of £1000) has made me think again.
I am going to visit Elstree this weekend and stick to Cessna's after all you can always hire a 172 for touring which is just as good as a Piper and you don't need to convert with 5hrs and a checkride, just need to do the checkride. Plus if your on your on your own you can save a bit of cash and take a 152.
No clever sign off yet
I am going to visit Elstree this weekend and stick to Cessna's after all you can always hire a 172 for touring which is just as good as a Piper and you don't need to convert with 5hrs and a checkride, just need to do the checkride. Plus if your on your on your own you can save a bit of cash and take a 152.
No clever sign off yet
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Join Date: Mar 2002
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ChiSau,
If any prospective club really asks you to do a duel-check I'd advise that you find somewhere else. Armed combat seems a rather extreme way of resolving booking conflicts!
If any prospective club really asks you to do a duel-check I'd advise that you find somewhere else. Armed combat seems a rather extreme way of resolving booking conflicts!
Renting and Building Hours
ChiSau The Poet is correct that getting into a syndicate is the cheapest way if you are going to fly every couple of weeks or more. That's something I ought to do but meanwhile fly with a Club.
Another thing from your point of view is where you want to fly. I trained at Luton (amongst others) and so know that local area fairly well. Now I fly at Fairoaks where we are all PA-28 (which is probably fairly equidistant from central London to Denham/Elstree for you) and have a completely different area to fly in .... south and west of London and along the South Coast. That gives me somewhere different to fly and new scenery to explore without long familiar transit flights.
Type checks with us aren't - in my experience - a big deal, the fourth next most important thing .. after safety, safety and safety of course .. is familiarity with the area so you don't infringe LHR and GAT.
If you wanted to use 2 clubs how about Denham and Fairoaks 2 get 2 different starting points ????
I have got my time pretty much split between Cessnas and Pipers and we have use of a 172. Although I haven't flown one since GumBOIL at Barton about 3 years ago, I don't anticipate any problems doing a quick type check and check ride to get "authority" to fly it.
Another thing from your point of view is where you want to fly. I trained at Luton (amongst others) and so know that local area fairly well. Now I fly at Fairoaks where we are all PA-28 (which is probably fairly equidistant from central London to Denham/Elstree for you) and have a completely different area to fly in .... south and west of London and along the South Coast. That gives me somewhere different to fly and new scenery to explore without long familiar transit flights.
Type checks with us aren't - in my experience - a big deal, the fourth next most important thing .. after safety, safety and safety of course .. is familiarity with the area so you don't infringe LHR and GAT.
If you wanted to use 2 clubs how about Denham and Fairoaks 2 get 2 different starting points ????
I have got my time pretty much split between Cessnas and Pipers and we have use of a 172. Although I haven't flown one since GumBOIL at Barton about 3 years ago, I don't anticipate any problems doing a quick type check and check ride to get "authority" to fly it.
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Getting Started Renting
Thanks for the comments and thoughts...
highwinger - let me know how Elstree looks will you?
BlueRobin - nice line, but does it mean?
I'm hoping that one will come with the other as long as I'm doing different stuff.
DG - like the thought of being based at two locations, so can go North and South easily - would be nice to fly near the coast.
I think I'll definitely try to get rated on a PA28 as it will increase the options open to me.
highwinger - let me know how Elstree looks will you?
BlueRobin - nice line, but does it mean?
I'm hoping that one will come with the other as long as I'm doing different stuff.DG - like the thought of being based at two locations, so can go North and South easily - would be nice to fly near the coast.
I think I'll definitely try to get rated on a PA28 as it will increase the options open to me.
Why do it if it's not fun?
Join Date: Jul 2001
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ChiSau,
You asked BlueRobin what he means about experience vs hours. Yes, you're right, you will get both at the same time, as long as you keep doing different things.
Spending an hour in the circuit is good practice, but never leaving the circuit isn't. Going to local area will give you hours, but not experience. Going to the local area and practicing PFLs, stalls and steep turns, and making sure you maintain your altitude to within 50' while flying between the airfield and the local area, will improve your experience as far as general handling is concerned, but not as far as navigation is concerned. I could go on, but you get the idea.
Good luck for the skills test!
FFF
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You asked BlueRobin what he means about experience vs hours. Yes, you're right, you will get both at the same time, as long as you keep doing different things.
Spending an hour in the circuit is good practice, but never leaving the circuit isn't. Going to local area will give you hours, but not experience. Going to the local area and practicing PFLs, stalls and steep turns, and making sure you maintain your altitude to within 50' while flying between the airfield and the local area, will improve your experience as far as general handling is concerned, but not as far as navigation is concerned. I could go on, but you get the idea.
Good luck for the skills test!
FFF
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The first thing you ought to do is join the PFA and root out a group near you.
Alternatively, another way to build "cheap" hours is to forget the £100+/hour rental approach and buy a cheap PFA aeroplane.
A VP1 or a Fred can be had for around the £2-2.5k mark. Burning Mogas at about 2gph for a cruise of around 60 knots you don't get far but it's not distance you're measuring is it! Due to their limited range you will visit a lot of airfields thus adding to the experience side of things. Also a Biggles leather jacket is compulsory as they are open cockpit aeroplanes.
When you have built up sufficient hours you can sell the aeroplane on for pretty much what you paid for it so no net loss there.
Your insurance and maintenance will be around £1,000 pa and your direct costs around £20/hour. Thus 200 hours / year will cost you £5,000 this way but it'll cost you £20,000 renting at £100/hour........
These areoplanes ain't fast and they ain't pretty but the only cheaper SEP flying is as an instructor
.
Alternatively, another way to build "cheap" hours is to forget the £100+/hour rental approach and buy a cheap PFA aeroplane.
A VP1 or a Fred can be had for around the £2-2.5k mark. Burning Mogas at about 2gph for a cruise of around 60 knots you don't get far but it's not distance you're measuring is it! Due to their limited range you will visit a lot of airfields thus adding to the experience side of things. Also a Biggles leather jacket is compulsory as they are open cockpit aeroplanes.
When you have built up sufficient hours you can sell the aeroplane on for pretty much what you paid for it so no net loss there.
Your insurance and maintenance will be around £1,000 pa and your direct costs around £20/hour. Thus 200 hours / year will cost you £5,000 this way but it'll cost you £20,000 renting at £100/hour........
These areoplanes ain't fast and they ain't pretty but the only cheaper SEP flying is as an instructor
.
Last edited by LowNSlow; 15th Oct 2002 at 16:15.
