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Flying in EU with non-EU PPL 28 days per year "holiday" license

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Flying in EU with non-EU PPL 28 days per year "holiday" license

Old 9th Jul 2023, 05:22
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zs1
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Flying in EU with non-EU PPL 28 days per year "holiday" license

Hi. Seems the EU regulations allow a country to accept a foreign PPL for a 28 days a year non-commercial "holiday" license, after a 1 hour acclimatisation with an instructor and filling out a form.
See (EU) 2020/723 clause 8.3
I can only find that Germany and UK actually offer this. In the UK I have done it successfully. Does anyone know of more countries that offer this please?
(Here are the URLs for the relevant regulations - as a newbie I can't post them as a link though so add https before)
eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/?uri=CELEX%3A32020R0723
aopa.de/ueber-uns/private-pilot-license-validation/
http://www.caa.co.uk/Commercial-indu...n-UK-airspace/
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Old 9th Jul 2023, 12:11
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Hi

Having investigated this last year regarding someone with a FAA licence, unless there has been an extension that I am not aware of, this option ceased to be valid after the 2 year transition period. It was made clear by the CAA after a direct question, that to fly a G reg aircraft after 31 Dec 22, a U.K. licence is required.

Now, what has Brexit ever done for me…….?

Me
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Old 9th Jul 2023, 12:21
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I'm pleased to tell you that's wrong. I can't post a URL but Google for "CAA Recognition of ICAO third country licences in UK airspace". I have recently been through this process and the CAA officially confirmed that I can fly 28 days a year non-commercial VFR day time with my FAA license (there was a small fee and I had to do an acclimatisation flight). Now I'm wondering which other countries offer something similar. The only other one I found was Germany but I haven't tried it yet.
Zvi
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Old 9th Jul 2023, 13:12
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Originally Posted by zs1
I'm pleased to tell you that's wrong. I can't post a URL but Google for "CAA Recognition of ICAO third country licences in UK airspace".
Thanks for that reference. Doesn't help me though as CAA requires a class 2 medical and, to fly the same aircraft in USA, I need only Class 3 or BasicMed.

The current rules are more stringent than when I went back to UK in 1982. At that time there was no limitation on how long I could fly on my FAA certificate and I was checked out to rent and to tow at my local gliding club.
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Old 9th Jul 2023, 14:56
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The UK CAA did recognise the US third-class medical certificate as being equivalent to ICAO Class 2. That position was stated several years ago in ORS4 No. 1228, if I recall.

Italy, Spain, Cyprus, and France all offer the 28-day validation.

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Old 9th Jul 2023, 15:15
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Yes confirmed - the CAA accepted my FAA class 3
Ah very interesting about Italy, Spain, Cyprus, and France - I wonder if you have references for that. Maybe the problem is that I am searching in English and I only found UK and Germany.
So now the next question is if the CAA recognise my FAA license then I assume I can take a G-reg (UK) plane and fly it to another country right?
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Old 9th Jul 2023, 19:34
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If anyone has any info regarding the possibility of using a U.K. licence in Europe I’d be very interested.
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Old 9th Jul 2023, 21:01
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Of course you can use a UK licence in Europe and just about anywhere else. That is if flying a UK registered aeroplane.

It is the state with which the aircraft is registered that determines the validity of the pilot not the state where the flight is taking place.
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Old 10th Jul 2023, 04:47
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zs1
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Right you can fly a G-Reg plane to other countries but the point of this thread is that some countries such as Germany (and someone claimed also France, Spain. Cyprus although I can't find a reference) will recognize your license for 28 days a year of non-commercial flying even for a plane registered in that country, after doing an acclimitization flight and filling out some forms.
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Old 10th Jul 2023, 06:08
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Fl1ingfrog

thanks for replying but I meant using a U.K. licence to fly a EU aircraft. Before BREXIT one only needed a local check flight and then could fly without restriction. At least that was my experience.

i promise I don’t want to start a debate about the B word but my question is can we regain what has been lost.
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Old 10th Jul 2023, 06:51
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Hi I know what you're asking - like i said Germany and probably some other countries can recognise your license to fly a German aircraft 28 days a year non-commercial
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Old 10th Jul 2023, 14:59
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zs1,

For Cyprus (DCA/CY) form LIC-030. Or see list of forms, under table C, "Application For Validation or extension of Validation of a Third Country License under Annex III of EASA Aircrew Regulation."

For Spain (AESA/ES) form LIC-VAL-P01-F05. Or see list of forms, under ICAO Third Country Licensing Holders → License Validation issued in Third Country ICAO → "Request for validation of pilot licences for specific non-commercial tasks (maximum 28 natural days-year)."

For France (DGAC/FR) form 88i-FORMLIC. Or see list of forms, under Validation d’une licence étrangère → Validation à titre privé → "Formulaire de demande de validation à titre privé d'une licence OACI."

For Italy (ENAC/IT), I received an email response on 4 Mar 2022 stating that "article 8(3) is approved. The [ac]climatisation flight shall be done in Italy with an Instructor." I've emailed the inspector for the appropriate form. If a response is received, I will post it to this thread.

The UK CAA forms are SRG2141 and SRG2142.
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Old 10th Jul 2023, 15:09
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NORDO

Interesting UK requirement - "You are not permitted to use radio equipment fitted to an aircraft unless you hold a valid Aircraft Radio Operators Licence and valid English Language Proficiency at a minimum of Level 4"

ref - https://publicapps.caa.co.uk/docs/33...%20Issue05.pdf

No radio operators licence is required in USA I doubt many US pilots have one.
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Old 10th Jul 2023, 16:01
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Fantastic thanks for all the links!

I think the UK accept that the FAA pilot's license includes a radio license. If not people with an FAA pliot's license can get a radio license for a few dollars from the FCC - the FCC website is difficult to use but you want to apply for a Restricted Radiotelephone Operator Permit (look for RR).
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Old 12th Jul 2023, 21:50
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Not wanting to muddy the waters here but, out of interest, where I come from (Commonwealth country) the radio operators qualification is a rating, not a licence per se. As such it has no expiry and if the flight crew/pilot's licence were accepted in another country it must follow that the radio rating was included, as with the rating for whatever aircraft you fly.

FP.
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Old 13th Jul 2023, 09:49
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Interesting UK requirement - "You are not permitted to use radio equipment fitted to an aircraft unless you hold a valid Aircraft Radio Operators Licence and valid English Language Proficiency at a minimum of Level 4"
It is now the UK norm for the RT privileges to be included in the pilots licence, as it is in many states. It is true that a UK pilots licence can still be issued without RT privileges.
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Old 16th Jul 2023, 21:46
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"if the flight crew/pilot's licence were accepted in another country it must follow that the radio rating was included"

The operating of aircraft radio equipment will be subject to the laws of the state of registry. It should not be assumed that any foreign pilot licence validation certificate confers the privilege.

The Radio Regulations (provision 37.1) annexed to the ITU Convention give States discretion in accepting a foreign radiotelephone operating certificate/licence/permit, eg Canada allows its aircraft radios to be operated by US citizens who hold a US pilot certificate and US restricted radiotelephone operator's permit (Treaty Series 1952 No 7, art I). The UK ANO 2016, art 150, has made a meal of deeming foreign RT certificates valid. The article title includes the words "... deeming a non-United Kingdom radiotelephony licence valid for any aircraft" (emphasis added), however, para 3 appears to limit this validity to non–Part-21 (UK-registered) aircraft.
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Old 24th Jul 2023, 13:00
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the original post wasn't very specific. "allow a country to accept a foreign PPL for a 28 days a year non-commercial "holiday" license, after a 1 hour acclimatisation with an instructor and filling out a form."

In the UK - It depends on if the pilot is resident, or visiting. It also depends where the aircraft (operator) is based.


Full details here https://www.caa.co.uk/commercial-ind...n-uk-airspace/

The two simple cases are:

Visiting pilots who wish to fly for pleasure in the UK, in an aircraft of the same registry of the State of their licence issue, do not need permission from the Civil Aviation Authority (CAA).

Visiting pilots who wish to fly for pleasure in the UK, in a G reg aircraft You will need to:
  • Be in current flying practice on the class or type of aircraft you wish to fly in UK airspace.
  • Be flying purely for pleasure, private flying, not receiving remuneration. The flight can only be conducted in non-complex motor-powered aircraft, and do not allow fo flight instruction or examination.
  • Meet the requirements of, complete and submit forms SRG2141and SRG2142.
  • Please note there is a fee associated with SRG2142, more information can be found in the related information section at the bottom of this page.
You must:
  • Hold a valid Licence/Certificate (that is a licence that is not subject to suspension, limitation or other enforcement action by the issuing authority).
  • Hold a valid, current rating relevant to the aircraft to be operated, and the privileges to be exercised, demonstrable by reference to appropriate logbook and licence evidence.
  • Hold at least a valid Class 2 Medical issued by the issuing authority.
  • Hold an “English proficient” endorsement on their ICAO licence, to meet the minimum level 4 proficiency, or have their proficiency confirmed by a UK Civil Aviation Authority (CAA) Approved Language Proficiency Assessment Centre if no such endorsement applies or the candidate wishes to be credited with proficiency levels 5 or 6 (Form CAA5003 applies).
  • Complete an acclimatisation flight which is a check flight conducted with a qualified UK instructor, the aim of the flight is to demonstrate that you are safe to fly the aircraft in UK airspace.
You must keep the declaration you have made to the CAA. Once you have received email confirmation from the CAA, you can fly in UK airspace. Please note the expiry date of your declaration is stated on your confirmation email from the CAA.

For more than 28 days per calendar year:

You need to hold either a UK short- term validation or a UK licence.
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Old 24th Jul 2023, 13:38
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If you fly a 'permit to fly' aircraft you dont need to convert.

As per p8 of the following Pitts_S-1C_G-BTOO_07-23.pdf (publishing.service.gov.uk)

Articles 137, 138 and 150 of the UK Air Navigation Order (ANO) 2016 permit a pilot to fly an aircraft with a ‘permit to fly’ on the privileges of a pilot’s licence issued by an ICAO compliant third country. The pilot held a valid FAA private pilot’s licence with a current single engine land airplane rating and a valid FAA third class medical.
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