Does ultralight flight time count towards unfreezing ATPL?

[Kriekos]

Hi!

I hold an EASA frozen ATPL and I have been contacted by a company to fly their Sirius TL ultralight aircraft. I was wondering whether flight hours on an ultralight aircraft count towards the 1500 flight hours needed to unfreeze my ATPL license but I can’t find any conclusive information about this. Do you know whether they count? And could you provide EASA regulations supporting your answer?

The aircraft: https://www.tl-ultralight.cz/en/ultr...tl-3000-sirius

Thank you in advance.

Grtz,
Kriekos

[Genghis the Engineer]

I think this is ambiguous between countries at the moment, but most likely the answer is "no" because this is not an EASA administered aeroplane. Best thing to do is double check with the local authorities in Belgium.

G

[Jan Olieslagers]

The holder of a (now expired) Belgian ultralight licence, I fully concur with GtE (except for the nuance that the crux is not in the plane being sub-EASA, but rather the licence; but of course the two go hand in hand). It seems unlikely, but it never hurts to inquire. If you can manage to get someone on the phone, that is, I understand that the service is badly understaffed.

I do have a vague memory though, that at one time the mandatory 50 hours for getting a new PPL could be reduced to 40 if one had an ultralight licence.

@GtE below: thanks, G., I am sure your memory is better than mine !

[Genghis the Engineer]

Under JAA, the predecessor of EASA, the 45 (not 50) hrs for a PPL could be reduced to 35 if you had a microlight licence with at least 100hrs PiC in 3-axis microlights. I don't think that rule survived into the creation of EASA, but is probably what you're thinking of Jan. I was able to exploit that when I got my JAR PPL(A) in 2001, having a few hundred microlight hours at that point.

I think that our holder of an fATPL is in a bit of a different place 'though, as he already has an ICAO compliant professional licence - the question is about the hours in micro/ultralights counting towards the 1500hr requirement for removal of the frozen aspect of his ATPL.

G

[Fl1ingfrog]

From the UK CAA website;

Flying

When the applicant holds a current and valid pilot licence for another categories of aircraft they can be credited with flight time up to a maximum of:

• for TMG or sailplanes, 30 hours flown as PIC;
• for helicopters, 50% of all the flight time requirements for the issue of an ATPL(A).

Holders of a UK issued flight engineer licence may be credited with 50% of the flight engineer time up to a maximum of 250 hours. These 250 hours may be credited against the 1500 hours of total flight time listed above and the 500 hours multi-pilot operations requirement above, provided that the total credit given against any of these does not exceed 250 hours.

The experience requirement shall be completed before the skill test for the ATPL(A) is taken.

Although Ultralight, Light Sport or Microlite aircraft aren't mentioned they presumably aren't intended to be excluded.

[Sam Rutherford]

I had this when doing some research for Z and M. Their Shark hours count for very nearly nothing/nothing in Europe/UK - but are valid at full value for the FAA. Hence why they are continuing their flying qualifications career down an American path.... Zara got her FAA commercial certificate based almost entirely on her Shark hours (about 300).

[ahwalk01]

This is why the FAA wins. I'm never converting.

[Genghis the Engineer]

Originally Posted by ahwalk01

This is why the FAA wins. I'm never converting.

When I converted the other way, the FAA accepted all my UK 3-axis microlight time towards my CPL!

Originally Posted by Fl1ingfrog

Although Ultralight, Light Sport or Microlite aircraft aren't mentioned they presumably aren't intended to be excluded.

I suspect that they were deliberately excluded as microlights and LSA are not part 21, and sailplanes and helicopters are.

G

[klester79]

Ultralight flight time does not count towards unfreezing ATPL as ultralights are considered as recreational aircraft and the flight time logged in them does not count towards any professional pilot certification requirements. Only flight time logged in a certified aircraft, such as a single or multi-engine airplane, can be counted towards the requirements for unfreezing an ATPL. It is important to consult with your aviation authority or a qualified flight instructor to determine the specific requirements for unfreezing an ATPL in your country or region.

[Whopity]

ultralights are considered as recreational aircraft and the flight time logged in them does not count towards any professional pilot certification requirements.

A PPL is considered as a recreational licence i.e no commercial activity other than flight instruction so how would a PPL holder claim hours towards a commercial licence if that was the case?
Under the JAA there was a clear statement that Microlight time could not be counted towards aircraft experience however; that changed with EASA who amended the recency and revalidation requirements just over 2 years ago:

We here at EASA tell you (in our regulation AMC1 FCL.140.A; FCL.140.S; FCL.740.A(b)(1)(ii)) that you need to revalidate your license every 2 years and in that same regulation give you instructions how to do it.

We are now providing another way for you to do it. You can count hours in aeroplanes and sailplanes that are Annex 1 aircraft and under your countries National rules ((a)Historic aircraft, (b)Experimental Aircraft, (c) 51% kit built aircraft, (d) Military aircraft, (e) Ultralights under the old 450 kg limitations) or Ultralights up to 600 kg with our new rule Article 2(8) if your country has agreed to allow it.

That means they have accepted Article 2(8) which the UK has.
If the hours are acceptable for revalidation, why would they not count as experience for future licence issue. I had a friend who built his hours on a Rollason Turbulent, the Sirrius would run rings around that in terms of performance.
Whilst there is no clear answer to the original question, the latest amendment shows a clear intent to recognise hours that indicate an appropriate level of experience.

[TB74]

Hi Sam, my husband is considering going the same route. He has EASA PPL, plans to get the FAA PPL issued and then do FAA CPL. What school did you use in US?

[Sam Rutherford]

Mack also now has his FAA comm certificate, based almost entirely on his Shark (microlight) hours.

Both Zara and Mack did theirs with a very good friend CFII of mine in Chicago. He's a great instructor and cheaper than a school. Happy to share his details by email: sam AT prepare2go dot com

Safe flights! Sam.