Liability stupidity
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Liability stupidity
For the past four or five years I have made the annual journey from Seething to Nuthampstead (BKY VOR) for the air cadets rally. Turn up, give the cadets some marshalling practice, have a burger, go home. I try and go in something which might interest the cadets and usually take Tiger Moth or Chipmunk.
This year turned up in Chippy on Saturday and found the ATC day had no ATC cadets present. Instead we were treated to an adult who attempted to marshal from every blind spot imaginable (if it was you sorry don't mean to criticise but the cadets did a damn good job).
When I enquired anout the lack of cadets at a cadet fly in I was told that the ATC squadron who were usually involved were unable to continue on their current insurance and it was now regarded as unsafe for them to be put in a situation where they could be injured. In other words the ATC appear to have decided that an airfield is an unsafe place for air cadets. At my own airfield signs have just sprouted up everywhere saying that the airfield is an unsafe place.
I just have to get this off my chest - this liability panic is beginning to get very silly and soon we will start so see a real impact if we dont fight back.
This year turned up in Chippy on Saturday and found the ATC day had no ATC cadets present. Instead we were treated to an adult who attempted to marshal from every blind spot imaginable (if it was you sorry don't mean to criticise but the cadets did a damn good job).
When I enquired anout the lack of cadets at a cadet fly in I was told that the ATC squadron who were usually involved were unable to continue on their current insurance and it was now regarded as unsafe for them to be put in a situation where they could be injured. In other words the ATC appear to have decided that an airfield is an unsafe place for air cadets. At my own airfield signs have just sprouted up everywhere saying that the airfield is an unsafe place.
I just have to get this off my chest - this liability panic is beginning to get very silly and soon we will start so see a real impact if we dont fight back.
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FF - it was my instructor (Alan Adams, ex Panshanger now PSF at High Cross) that set up the Nuthampstead fly-in all those years ago. The whole point of the fly-in, he never ceases to tell me, was to let the cadets do it, from operating the radio to marshalling once on the ground to cooking the hamburgers. It strikes me as sad that it now seems to have been taken from them.
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FF - I'm involved with the ATC (have been for 30 yrs now), and can confirm that with the removal of Crown immunity (which happened several years ago), no-one is ready to take an individual decision to approve anything which has the slightest risk. I am also a shooting supervisor and the air is full of the sound of dragging goalposts and covering of 6 o'clock positions in relation to anything that goes bang (or even 'phut'!!).
I'm not knocking the organisation; it's just that as UK society takes the (IMHO undesirable) step towards the US 'sue em and leggit' mentality, then the youngsters of today who yearn for challenge and adventure (which inevitably means an element of controlled and assessed risk) will have to undertake it for themselves as 'organised adventure' is too prone to adverse litigiousness for the organiser.
Sorry to hear about the Rally (but be aware that the decision was probably taken at a County / Region level - it may well be that another Region would be permitted to do a similar event).
I'm not knocking the organisation; it's just that as UK society takes the (IMHO undesirable) step towards the US 'sue em and leggit' mentality, then the youngsters of today who yearn for challenge and adventure (which inevitably means an element of controlled and assessed risk) will have to undertake it for themselves as 'organised adventure' is too prone to adverse litigiousness for the organiser.
Sorry to hear about the Rally (but be aware that the decision was probably taken at a County / Region level - it may well be that another Region would be permitted to do a similar event).
Join Date: Apr 2002
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Circuit Basher, sir, it appears that's a prevalent attitude throughout the ATC/ACO/AC:tNG or whatever it's called this week.
FF- I've got a few friends in the squadron that usually does the rally -- when I speak to them next I'll try and find out what happened.
-D (bitter about the fact we can't do stuff in greens -- ex-PongoPrivatePilot, where are you? Feel like taking some cadets with you on your next TA-type exercise?
)
FF- I've got a few friends in the squadron that usually does the rally -- when I speak to them next I'll try and find out what happened.
-D (bitter about the fact we can't do stuff in greens -- ex-PongoPrivatePilot, where are you? Feel like taking some cadets with you on your next TA-type exercise?
)
Join Date: Aug 2000
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It is ironic that just a few miles away at Bassingbourn, Air Cadets were marshalling aircraft, booking them in and going for air experience flights in visiting aircraft and microlights over the bank holiday weekend.
The museum in the old control tower was open for visiting pilots and a soldier was on duty to open the gates (Bassingbourn is the basic training base for the Queen's Division).
Isn't it ridiculous that it is permissable to fly in to an active army base and have cadets in close proximity when taxying, while a field in the middle of Cambridgeshire is deemed to be too dangerous!
At least there were people who took the time and trouble to enable the Nuthampstead fly-in to proceed. Let's hope sanity reigns next year and the cadets can come back.
RD
The museum in the old control tower was open for visiting pilots and a soldier was on duty to open the gates (Bassingbourn is the basic training base for the Queen's Division).
Isn't it ridiculous that it is permissable to fly in to an active army base and have cadets in close proximity when taxying, while a field in the middle of Cambridgeshire is deemed to be too dangerous!
At least there were people who took the time and trouble to enable the Nuthampstead fly-in to proceed. Let's hope sanity reigns next year and the cadets can come back.
RD
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Go to a Motor racing event, and your ticket will say something like this
Seems to work fine. I just wonder why we cannot do the same sort of thing?
Spectators are reminded that motor sport is dangerous and accidents can happen.
All care is taken to protect the public but spectators are warned there is a possibility of an accident causing injury, death or property damage.
All care is taken to protect the public but spectators are warned there is a possibility of an accident causing injury, death or property damage.
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Probably because the desire to be at a racing event is such that you're even prepared to pay for the entry privilege, hence the 'at your own risk' disclaimer.
The cadets would be there because that is what is demanded of them, and as such have no 'opt out' option, even if the danger element is brought to their attention. Therefore only the foolhardy would sign a disclaimer saying that if their 'employer' indirectly injures them, it's their own fault for taking the job in the first place!
The cadets would be there because that is what is demanded of them, and as such have no 'opt out' option, even if the danger element is brought to their attention. Therefore only the foolhardy would sign a disclaimer saying that if their 'employer' indirectly injures them, it's their own fault for taking the job in the first place!
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Actually, it's not just that, under UK law a disclaimer cannot cover you in the case of death or serious injury (apparently) ... unless it can be proved that the person that signed knew and understood the risks ... almost impossible to prove.
(That is if I understand it right, feel free to correct me)
GR14-- nothing is demanded of the cadets. In fact, most of them volunteer, when our cadets do the Southend Airshow the sign up list is usually filled very quickly, and everyone looks forward to the chance to get to see aircraft up close.
-D
(That is if I understand it right, feel free to correct me)
GR14-- nothing is demanded of the cadets. In fact, most of them volunteer, when our cadets do the Southend Airshow the sign up list is usually filled very quickly, and everyone looks forward to the chance to get to see aircraft up close.
-D
