UK Flight training with a PMD

[billythefrog]

Hi, does anyone know if it's possible to train for either a PPL or NPPL in the UK with a UK CAA Pilot's Medical Declaration?

Explanation: I'm a lapsed JAA PPL with a lapsed class 2 medical (and little chance of getting it back) but the PMD option is open to me. I have a homebuilt / permit aircraft. Thanks all

[ETOPS]

Is this what you you mean?

JAA Licences

If you have a JAA-PPL, do not confuse the expiry dates of the licence and the rating, JAA licences are valid for 5 years and the rating that is usually added, the SEP(L) is valid for 2 years. If the licence has expired then so long as it is expired by less than 5 years all that is needed is a valid medical (EASA class 2 or better) then reapply to the CAA to renew it.

Best chap to speak to is Irv Lee. His website is Irv Lee - UK Pilot Mentoring

[SWBKCB]

Originally Posted by billythefrog

Hi, does anyone know if it's possible to train for either a PPL or NPPL in the UK with a UK CAA Pilot's Medical Declaration?

Explanation: I'm a lapsed JAA PPL with a lapsed class 2 medical (and little chance of getting it back) but the PMD option is open to me. I have a homebuilt / permit aircraft. Thanks all

An NPPL is possible on a PMD. Is the a/c a LAA one? Maybe speak to them?

[Mickey Kaye]

Training as required plus test to renew the rating on your expired PPL (no medical at all is needed for this) then apply and pay a fee to have your licence reissued.

Once you have this you can fly on a PMD

[billythefrog]

Thanks for all the helpful replies!

Unfortunately both my licence and rating are well lapsed (> 5 years). Yes my a/c is LAA, I'll speak to them about the NPPL option... I'll post back what I find out.

[Whopity]

Much easier to renew your existing licence than have to get a new one (NPPL)!

[Davep1958]

I have an old (non FCL brown licence) which had expired by over 10 years. Went to an ATO did some training, passed a check ride and that was all that was needed.

Did it on a PMD, examiner signed off my licence and submitted forms to the CAA. No fee required.

Don't know if this applies with yours being a JAA.

First ever posting so be nice :-)

[billythefrog]

Hi, thanks again everyone.

I spoke to the (really helpful) head of training at the LAA and although it's perfectly possible to do NPPL training on a PMD, he agreed with others on this thread that it should be possible to convert my expired JAA licence to a UK Part FCL license with sufficient training and a check ride (with a PMD). In other words, very similar to the experience of Davep1958 ...

However, CAA form SRG 1102 states that this requires a Class 2 medical! On that basis he'd expect the administrators at the CAA to reject my application (and that it would take time for them to be convinced otherwise) :-(

Davep1958 I'm assuming you needed to file a SRG 1102 with the CAA to renew your UK PPL(A) (and they accepted it with a PMD)? If so, that would be great news for me!

Thanks again!

[BEagle]

[..] although it's perfectly possible to do NPPL training on a PMD [...]

Ab initio NPPL(SSEA) training with a PMD is ONLY permitted on non-Part 21 aeroplanes. Hence if someone wishes to train for an NPPL(SSEA) on a Cessna 150, in order to fly solo they must hold a LAPL medical certificate as a minimum.

[Davep1958]

Billy - The examiner completed the forms for the CAA and got me to sign them, also signed off the certificate in my PPL. He checked my licence and logbook and was aware that I was flying on a PMD prior to the check ride.

Test was in a Robin DR2120. I now fly that and and a C172 I've been checked out on.

[billythefrog]

Thanks BEagle that's what I thought until I started investigating, hence my initial assertion that I have a non-part-21 a/c. However the head of training at the LAA (who run the NPPL on behalf of the CAA) tells me that, "The training is usually carried out on a Part 21 (EASA) aeroplane (because you're not exercising licence privileges until you possess the licence) but in general can be on a non-Part-21 aeroplane if you are the owner or part-owner."

So I think the rules may have changed?

[billythefrog]

Thanks Davep1958 My only remaining concern is from earlier in this thread, your licence as a UK CAA PPL didn't actually expire, but the fact you and your instructor would have filled out the same licence renewal form, and that you conducted your training with a PMD, is extremely encouragoing! I'll get back to the CAA again armed with this new knowledge!

Thanks again all

[BEagle]

The 'rules' have not changed. Learning to fly using a PMD is ONLY permitted for NPPL solo students flying non-Part 21 aeroplanes. Even then, they cannot use the 'alternative criteria' for sub 2000kg PMD, but must meet the 'up to 5700kg' PMD criteria.

[Fl1ingfrog]

BEagle you refer to the ab initio student learning to fly and, in particular, flying solo. A student, even ab initio, is NOT required to hold any kind of medical for their dual training but only at the time they are sent solo. This thread is with regard to a lapsed license holder undertaking revision training when solo flying is not required. Their question has been answered correctly.

[jollyrog]

Can you either -

Apply to the CAA for a UK National PPL (ICAO complaint licence), which should be OK with a PMD? They don't seem to have a form for it, website says in a couple of places: "If you wish to apply for a UK national PPL, you must submit your request in writing by email to [email protected] (with the subject heading: 'National licence')."
This is not an NPPL and avoids the downgrade.

Or - persuade an AME to issue a Class 2 if possible, with safety pilot restriction? Even if the Class 2 said safety pilot, it's still a Class 2 and gets you into the Part FCL issue process?

You don't need any solo flight to renew your class rating and once you've done so, you rely on the PMD.

[rjc54n]

Originally Posted by billythefrog

Thanks BEagle that's what I thought until I started investigating, hence my initial assertion that I have a non-part-21 a/c. However the head of training at the LAA (who run the NPPL on behalf of the CAA) tells me that, "The training is usually carried out on a Part 21 (EASA) aeroplane (because you're not exercising licence privileges until you possess the licence) but in general can be on a non-Part-21 aeroplane if you are the owner or part-owner."

So I think the rules may have changed?

I was also under the impression that I couldn't train & solo in a C152 under a PMD - until I received this by email from the LAA:

"Yes you can undertake NPPL training including solo exercises on a PMD."

To be fair, the CAA website manages to contradict itself or at least be quite ambiguous. My CFI wasn't aware either but encouraged me to keep investigating.