Inviting non pilots along
Inviting non pilots along
As a low hours PPL, I have never flown with a non pilot. I am beginning to wonder about asking among my group of friends and colleagues if they would like to come along for a sight-seeing flight to one of the more picturesque airstrips that I am familiar with, and perhaps contribute to the fuel costs, or at least buy me a $100 hamburger. I could use the flying time, and someone contributing to the costs would be very helpful. Of course, I understand that this would be a different scale of responsibility compared to flying with someone who understands exactly what they are letting themselves in for.
I know that I would have jumped at the chance to do this just a couple of years ago - but obviously I am strange. I wonder if you folks could share some experiences/suggestions/precautions on approaching and flying with innocent non pilot friends? What reaction might I expect when they first see a rattly old C172 rather than the sleek jet they probably had in their minds ? How do passengers typically react to being bounced around by turbulence while squeezed into a tin can with all the sophistication of a Hillman Imp? How often do they scream and grab your arm?! A few sudden and substantial, buffets are almost inevitable as we descend over ground that has been baking in the sun. Obviously a good briefing is critical to set their expectations, but how to get that right without overloading or terrifying them....
I know that I would have jumped at the chance to do this just a couple of years ago - but obviously I am strange. I wonder if you folks could share some experiences/suggestions/precautions on approaching and flying with innocent non pilot friends? What reaction might I expect when they first see a rattly old C172 rather than the sleek jet they probably had in their minds ? How do passengers typically react to being bounced around by turbulence while squeezed into a tin can with all the sophistication of a Hillman Imp? How often do they scream and grab your arm?! A few sudden and substantial, buffets are almost inevitable as we descend over ground that has been baking in the sun. Obviously a good briefing is critical to set their expectations, but how to get that right without overloading or terrifying them....
The first consideration when taking people flying for the first time is the weather; good visibility is paramount and also light winds. Involve everyone fully in what you are doing during all checks and actions. You will need to supervise your non flying passengers continuously and assume nothing. Involve everyone as much as you can. Whilst taxiing allow the front seat passenger to check their brakes: you don't want the passenger to use the brakes as a foot rest during the take off or landing, I assure you words are not enough. Invite them to check controls for full and free movement during the pre-take off checks. All this involvement will ease their nerves. All this will help your passengers to build confidence in the aeroplane and you.
Once airborne keep the chatter to the minimum and allow every one to enjoy their new view of the world. Pointing out well known landmarks and towns will help them with their orientation of course. Make great efforts to fly in balance: hopefully your instructor was fastidious that you did. Sitting on or very close to the C of G you may not have appreciated what hell it is for any rear seat passengers when being swung from side to side. Consider also not to make sudden and large changes in pitch, consider the see saw effect experienced by rear seats passengers.
Best wishes
Once airborne keep the chatter to the minimum and allow every one to enjoy their new view of the world. Pointing out well known landmarks and towns will help them with their orientation of course. Make great efforts to fly in balance: hopefully your instructor was fastidious that you did. Sitting on or very close to the C of G you may not have appreciated what hell it is for any rear seat passengers when being swung from side to side. Consider also not to make sudden and large changes in pitch, consider the see saw effect experienced by rear seats passengers.
Best wishes
Last edited by Fl1ingfrog; 10th Dec 2021 at 14:40.
Give extensive briefing before and during and after flight. Especially, extended pre-flight briefing, also explaining what to do if things go wrong but do not forget to stress that this is extremely unlikely. If feasible, invite your guests to the airfield a couple of hours in advance: they can then get at their ease in this surrounding, and get familiar with the kind of planes and the kind of people and the kind of flying.
Do NOT suggest they share in the cost: if they do, they have a right to expectations. Which you might or might not be able to meet.
Pleasures in life ought to be shared freely, for the joy of the pleasure and for the joy of sharing it.
Above all, try to look at the whole event from your guests' view, and do all you can to make it a pleasure to them. Your own interests come second, just like when taking people to restaurant or to a concert or whatever.
Do NOT suggest they share in the cost: if they do, they have a right to expectations. Which you might or might not be able to meet.
Pleasures in life ought to be shared freely, for the joy of the pleasure and for the joy of sharing it.
Above all, try to look at the whole event from your guests' view, and do all you can to make it a pleasure to them. Your own interests come second, just like when taking people to restaurant or to a concert or whatever.
Yes, always be prepared for airsickness, indeed. OTOH, the smaller the plane, the less need for an _airport_ to land - I can imagine very light planes to make an out-landing in the first the best suitable field, at need; and even a C172 doesn't need CDG or JFK to land 
My observations:
1. If you haven’t flown with back seat passengers before, consider making your first flight with an instructor or experienced pilot in the right seat. The handling, particularly in the flare, maybe quite different. Also, do make a CG calculation before departure.
2. Don’t mention sick bags, but make sure they are easily accessible. Ask your passengers to let you know if they feel uncomfortable.
3. Don’t make side-slipping approaches - it can scare your passengers. Ask me how I know!
1. If you haven’t flown with back seat passengers before, consider making your first flight with an instructor or experienced pilot in the right seat. The handling, particularly in the flare, maybe quite different. Also, do make a CG calculation before departure.
2. Don’t mention sick bags, but make sure they are easily accessible. Ask your passengers to let you know if they feel uncomfortable.
3. Don’t make side-slipping approaches - it can scare your passengers. Ask me how I know!
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Do not underestimate what a distraction passengers can be - brief them on the need for silence (unless another aircraft spotted) when you require it.
I got the passengers to demonstrate to me how to undo the seatbelt and unlatch/open the door - as well as assurance for me, more importantly it gave them muscle memory should I not be able to assist.
For the first few times, I suggest that you give them a tour of the aircraft then send them for a coffee (& toilet!) before you conduct the pre-flight alone. Its tough looking out for their safety (E.G. propeller arc/staying close/hurting themselves on bits of the airframe) while you concentrate on ensuring the airframe is fit to fly.
Give yourself plenty of time so you don't get stressed. Things take a lot longer with passengers.
Ensure they can get a supply of cool air to the face.
Re-reading the above, I really need to add that I have had some passengers say how much they really enjoyed it (and obviously meant it), and that's a great reward for their trust in you.
I got the passengers to demonstrate to me how to undo the seatbelt and unlatch/open the door - as well as assurance for me, more importantly it gave them muscle memory should I not be able to assist.
For the first few times, I suggest that you give them a tour of the aircraft then send them for a coffee (& toilet!) before you conduct the pre-flight alone. Its tough looking out for their safety (E.G. propeller arc/staying close/hurting themselves on bits of the airframe) while you concentrate on ensuring the airframe is fit to fly.
Give yourself plenty of time so you don't get stressed. Things take a lot longer with passengers.
Ensure they can get a supply of cool air to the face.
Re-reading the above, I really need to add that I have had some passengers say how much they really enjoyed it (and obviously meant it), and that's a great reward for their trust in you.
Re-reading the above, I really need to add that I have had some passengers say how much they really enjoyed it (and obviously meant it), and that's a great reward for their trust in you.
I’ve taken many non-pilots along with me on flights. Do not let small children in the front seat, as you never want to know what knobs or levers they might want to play with. Plus, weight and balance dictates that they should be in the back seat. I took my spouse and young child flying with me multiple times. Young child buckled in their car seat in the back usually nodded off and fell asleep very quickly with the droning hum of the plane. Get them ear protection if you can.
Having headsets available where passengers can hear what is going on is a bonus.
Keep weight and balance in mind, as if you have some chubby friends along, it will take longer to get off the ground.
I have never had a problem taking passengers, but I didn’t do so until I had many hours under my belt.
In the US, if you are a private pilot, you can split the cost of the fuel, but they cannot pay you to fly them around. You need to have a commercial license before you can charge fees.
Make sure you are comfortable with your flying skills before you take passengers. You do not need to show off. They’ll be thrilled regardless, if only because they get to see their neighborhood from above for the first time.
Turbulence does bother some people much more than others, especially if they don’t have a clue what causes it.
Having headsets available where passengers can hear what is going on is a bonus.
Keep weight and balance in mind, as if you have some chubby friends along, it will take longer to get off the ground.
I have never had a problem taking passengers, but I didn’t do so until I had many hours under my belt.
In the US, if you are a private pilot, you can split the cost of the fuel, but they cannot pay you to fly them around. You need to have a commercial license before you can charge fees.
Make sure you are comfortable with your flying skills before you take passengers. You do not need to show off. They’ll be thrilled regardless, if only because they get to see their neighborhood from above for the first time.
Turbulence does bother some people much more than others, especially if they don’t have a clue what causes it.
I hardly ever fly alone and I hardly ever accept money, and certainly never on a first flight.
I have introduced that if we go somewhere the passenger contributes by paying the landing fee (usually £10 or £15) really this is just a token to be involved, it takes the pressure off that aspect.
If you want to fly with others to share the cost, do this with pilots. Go somewhere and have a leg each. It’s all flying, it doesn’t matter which seat you are in. You can also get to places you previously wouldn’t have because of the cost involved.
The point of flying with non pilots is to share the experiences we are lucky enough to have.
If you’re doing it to share costs you are doing it for the wrong reasons.
Be prepared that lots of people will give a flat “no” and may even find the concept terrifying, do not try to convince them it’ll be fun, for them it won’t. (I hate swimming, but love flying, would I want anyone to try and convince me swimming is great)
If you find people that want to do it, they’ll love it, they’ll talk about it for days, they’ll tell everyone what happened, that’s the point, not cost sharing.
I took a friend and his 12 year old son flying once, the son sat in the front, it was his birthday.
His Dad told me afterwards, that his son said it was the best Birthday he had ever had and just didn’t stop talking about it for ages.
Anyway…
as above, involve them in everything, I usually show them where the rudder pedals, brakes are, explain they are not footrests, and how to put “feet on floor”, I then say “feet on floor” before take off and landing.
The thing I’ve found they object to most is sharply banking into turns, bank slower than you are used to, they really hate banking.
I have a phrase when I’m doing my preamble outside the aircraft. I say,
“So, what’s this like? You’ve ridden a roll coaster right?”
This usually gets a nod and a very worried face.
I then say “well, this is NOTHING LIKE THAT, in fact, if it is, we are doing it wrong, this is NOT an adrenalin sport, we are going for some gentle sightseeing”.
This changes their expectations, they are already nervous and full of adrenalin, this relaxes them.
As above really, don’t rush, show them everything, take time, do a safety brief, show them how to get out, have a sick bag to hand, but don’t tell them.
I always allow an hour extra to get into the air from arrival with a new passenger, everything must be relaxed and non rushed, they’ll be picking up all their cues on how to act and what it’s going to be like from you. You need to be calm and relaxed, then they will be too.
I have introduced that if we go somewhere the passenger contributes by paying the landing fee (usually £10 or £15) really this is just a token to be involved, it takes the pressure off that aspect.
If you want to fly with others to share the cost, do this with pilots. Go somewhere and have a leg each. It’s all flying, it doesn’t matter which seat you are in. You can also get to places you previously wouldn’t have because of the cost involved.
The point of flying with non pilots is to share the experiences we are lucky enough to have.
If you’re doing it to share costs you are doing it for the wrong reasons.
Be prepared that lots of people will give a flat “no” and may even find the concept terrifying, do not try to convince them it’ll be fun, for them it won’t. (I hate swimming, but love flying, would I want anyone to try and convince me swimming is great)
If you find people that want to do it, they’ll love it, they’ll talk about it for days, they’ll tell everyone what happened, that’s the point, not cost sharing.
I took a friend and his 12 year old son flying once, the son sat in the front, it was his birthday.
His Dad told me afterwards, that his son said it was the best Birthday he had ever had and just didn’t stop talking about it for ages.
Anyway…
as above, involve them in everything, I usually show them where the rudder pedals, brakes are, explain they are not footrests, and how to put “feet on floor”, I then say “feet on floor” before take off and landing.
The thing I’ve found they object to most is sharply banking into turns, bank slower than you are used to, they really hate banking.
I have a phrase when I’m doing my preamble outside the aircraft. I say,
“So, what’s this like? You’ve ridden a roll coaster right?”
This usually gets a nod and a very worried face.
I then say “well, this is NOTHING LIKE THAT, in fact, if it is, we are doing it wrong, this is NOT an adrenalin sport, we are going for some gentle sightseeing”.
This changes their expectations, they are already nervous and full of adrenalin, this relaxes them.
As above really, don’t rush, show them everything, take time, do a safety brief, show them how to get out, have a sick bag to hand, but don’t tell them.
I always allow an hour extra to get into the air from arrival with a new passenger, everything must be relaxed and non rushed, they’ll be picking up all their cues on how to act and what it’s going to be like from you. You need to be calm and relaxed, then they will be too.
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Some of the advice above is good, lots of it is nonsense.
You need to remember that people can only remember three things. So your breifing needs to cover the three things that are crucial- how to get in and out and put the straps on- don't touch the controls- if you see another aircraft, tell meThey won't remember anything else.
The best way to reassure people is for you to be calm and confident (allow plenty of time) and to give them time to ask questions beforehand.
Do not involve them in the preflight checks!!! That's a sure way for you to be distracted and miss something.
The best advice I can give is for you to ignore stuff on here and to find an instructor you trust and to ask them what they do with trial flight people.
It's good that you realise you need to think carefully about this - get advice from someone you trust.
You need to remember that people can only remember three things. So your breifing needs to cover the three things that are crucial- how to get in and out and put the straps on- don't touch the controls- if you see another aircraft, tell meThey won't remember anything else.
The best way to reassure people is for you to be calm and confident (allow plenty of time) and to give them time to ask questions beforehand.
Do not involve them in the preflight checks!!! That's a sure way for you to be distracted and miss something.
The best advice I can give is for you to ignore stuff on here and to find an instructor you trust and to ask them what they do with trial flight people.
It's good that you realise you need to think carefully about this - get advice from someone you trust.
Some of the advice above is good, lots of it is nonsense.
You need to remember that people can only remember three things. So your breifing needs to cover the three things that are crucial- how to get in and out and put the straps on- don't touch the controls- if you see another aircraft, tell me They won't remember anything else.
You need to remember that people can only remember three things. So your breifing needs to cover the three things that are crucial- how to get in and out and put the straps on- don't touch the controls- if you see another aircraft, tell me They won't remember anything else.
PASSENGER BRIEFING
- loose articles- use of seat belt and evacuation procedure
- keep hands and feet clear of controls unless I have given you control
- look out for and point out other aircraft
- avoid unnecessary conversation (I will say ‘stand by’ if I want you to stop talking)
- operation of transmit switch
Operation of transmit switch: the rationale is that if I become incapacitated my passenger can summon assistance. But to avoid alarm I say: 'If my transmit button goes u/s you can do the R/T for me'.
If the pax wants to have a go at poling I give them this brief to read beforehand:
How Do We Fly The Plane?
Last edited by Discorde; 17th Dec 2021 at 14:14. Reason: link edited
I think there’s quite a difference between taking friends and family flying to performing trial flights and experiences.
I don’t think the OP was asking how to give a trial flight or a paid for experience, he was asking for others experiences when flying with non pilots.
To the OP, if you are a qualified pilot, you really don’t need to find an FI to know how to take others flying, that’s ridiculous.
I don’t see any nonsense above either, some of it goes a bit further than I would, but none is nonsense or dangerous.
I had a passenger point at the PTT switch and say “and I push this when I want to talk
to you right?”
That could have been hilarious.
Anyway, do it your way and enjoy it!
It’ll be as much fun for you as it will for them.
I don’t think the OP was asking how to give a trial flight or a paid for experience, he was asking for others experiences when flying with non pilots.
To the OP, if you are a qualified pilot, you really don’t need to find an FI to know how to take others flying, that’s ridiculous.
I don’t see any nonsense above either, some of it goes a bit further than I would, but none is nonsense or dangerous.
I had a passenger point at the PTT switch and say “and I push this when I want to talk
to you right?”
That could have been hilarious.
Anyway, do it your way and enjoy it!
It’ll be as much fun for you as it will for them.
- loose articles
- use of seat belt and evacuation procedure
- keep hands and feet clear of controls unless I have given you control
- look out for and point out other aircraft
- avoid unnecessary conversation (I will say ‘stand by’ if I want you to stop talking)
- operation of transmit switch
- use of seat belt and evacuation procedure
- keep hands and feet clear of controls unless I have given you control
- look out for and point out other aircraft
- avoid unnecessary conversation (I will say ‘stand by’ if I want you to stop talking)
- operation of transmit switch
And definitely select your weather carefully... To the OP - pax management will increase your workload more than you expect! Apologies if I've missed someone else making this point!
Thanks all for these thoughts. Does anyone have any comments on the typical reaction when a potential passenger first sees a tatty looking C172 that is older than them and dramatically less smart than the car they just drove to the airfield in?
I certainly have no intention of charging fees!! But out of interest, and prompted by the thread on the 'Sala crash', I had a look at Wingly. I was astounded on the first link I clicked, to see someone with substantially less experience than me offering sight seeing tours for £170. That's insane, but an innocent passenger would have no way to know how insane.
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I think there’s quite a difference between taking friends and family flying to performing trial flights and experiences.
To the OP, if you are a qualified pilot, you really don’t need to find an FI to know how to take others flying, that’s ridiculous.
Anyway, do it your way and enjoy it!
It’ll be as much fun for you as it will for them.
To the OP, if you are a qualified pilot, you really don’t need to find an FI to know how to take others flying, that’s ridiculous.
Anyway, do it your way and enjoy it!
It’ll be as much fun for you as it will for them.
Actually it's never ridiculous to ask an instructor for advice if you're not sure about something.
Friends and family probably need more care, not less, than experience flights and can be harder to look after. To them you are not a skygod- you're the guy who keeps loosing his car keys and can't run the washing machine. Plus it's more important to you that they go away thinking that was fun, they enjoyed it and felt safe. You want them to come again, right?
To the OP- good on you for recognising the challenge. It's a great thing to be able to introduce non flyers to light aircraft.
Don't overload them with stuff they don't need to know. But during the flight do tell them what's happening - even reducing power at the top of the initial climb out can freak people out (just tell them you're going to do it). In turns get them to look at the horizon out the front (you need to check they can see over the panel before you leave).
Have fun!
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I've actually never found this to be an issue - they trust you.