Go Back  PPRuNe Forums > Non-Airline Forums > Private Flying
Reload this Page >

Exporting permit aircraft UK- EU

Private Flying LAA/BMAA/BGA/BPA The sheer pleasure of flight.

Exporting permit aircraft UK- EU

Old 24th Sep 2020, 06:08
  #1 (permalink)  
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: France
Age: 57
Posts: 33
Exporting permit aircraft UK- EU

Hi anyone out there have any experience of taking permit aircraft such as RV4 , RV6 from UK to EU ( permanently) ie likely to entail a move to French or other EU register.

Iíve just been offered a job in EU and as well as relocating would like to take my plane. Have been looking on line but there are not many references to my specific question. Also the impending Brexit changes will doubtless add further complexity. The alternative would I guess be to buy another aircraft registered in EU once I get there however I would prefer to take my own aircraft.

Hope someone may be able to speak from experience or direct to me the best reference sources.
Freefly170 is offline  
Old 24th Sep 2020, 06:26
  #2 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2019
Location: EDSP
Posts: 306
So as we're talking about non-EASA aircraft there can't be an answer for UK to EU but instead UK to individual country.
I'll try to give some insight on the situation UK to Germany:
It depends.
If it is an old "regular" aircraft but non-EASA type one would have to look at something called the "blue book" https://www.lba.de/DE/TechnikUmwelts...ebersicht.html . If it's in there it could be . However the aircraft would have to be brought to a condition as certified in year dot by the LBA with only LBA approved modifications - which may be hard as modifications on a UK permit were much more common and easier as I understand it.
If it is a home built experimental (which I assume is the case here) - bad luck without rebuilding it and having the build inspected according to german processes for building home built aircraft.
BDAttitude is offline  
Old 24th Sep 2020, 07:38
  #3 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: belgium
Posts: 93
France used to be impossible for homebuilds but since a few years if the airplane is based there they want it to go on the French register. Several of the Dutch registered (flag of convenience) homebuilds have since moved to the French register
deing is offline  
Old 24th Sep 2020, 08:52
  #4 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: Bressuire
Posts: 279
BDAttitude's information is correct. France, for instance, will only accept such an aircraft if it has been wholly built by the original manufacturer and the same for all subsequent modifications and ADs (the manufacturer's official agents are included). But it will be a risk just the same.

With regard to dutch aeroplanes: it is no different because there are no international agreements for ULMs/Microlights/LSAs, call them what you will, including within the EU member countries. There are a large number of dutch registered ULMs in France and most likely throughout the EU but they remain on the dutch register - extremely risky. This is achieved by the dutch seller agreeing to keep your aeroplane on the dutch register with their name and dutch address pretending they are still the owner. A number of dutch sellers offer this as part of their sale agreement but there is nothing to stop them changing their minds later.
Fl1ingfrog is online now  
Old 24th Sep 2020, 10:12
  #5 (permalink)  
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: France
Age: 57
Posts: 33
Many thanks for those helpful replies. As I suspected it is fraught with issues and with impending Brexit layered on top probably not a good idea. perhaps best to look for an EASA type such as a Robin which is already either registered here or which can be more easily switched onto the local register. Nothing is particularly simple regards flying and paperwork in EU so best to try to start off in the right direction.
Freefly170 is offline  
Old 25th Sep 2020, 05:42
  #6 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Brighton, UK
Age: 41
Posts: 75
My RV8 was born in Germany, and the paperwork shows how strictly it was treated, itís all ďas a certified aircraftĒ. Power plant and prop all from a damaged certified machine. Maintenance all by part 145 organisation.

it was imported to Denmark and it took a year before it flew again. But it did. A few modifications were made, and clearly danish register is more liberal. It was still maintained part 145 org.

then I brought it to the UK. A year ago. And itís at the final stage and should get permission for test flying paperwork soon if all goes to plan.

so: a year seems to be the answer!
carlmeek is offline  
Old 12th Oct 2020, 15:46
  #7 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: North of the border
Posts: 184
Permit a/c to EU

I lived in France for 12 years and although they embrace home builds and ULM's the French will not allow a UK or any other countries permit based aircraft to switch to their registration.

Aircraft have to be built in France to qualify. It's a shame but there it is.

Last edited by gyrotyro; 12th Oct 2020 at 15:48. Reason: missed word out
gyrotyro is offline  
Old 13th Oct 2020, 09:35
  #8 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: Bressuire
Posts: 279
That isn't true, French regulation allows for the import of homebuilt ULMs. There is of course a big difference between theory and practice. As with most countries the process is best avoided. The detail and the required provenance is demanding and therefore very risky. There is always the likelihood that your aeroplane will be rejected with a demand that it is impossible to satisfy.

The RV series are perhaps the most sought after of home built aeroplanes. Difficult to find but quick to sell. The best advice is to buy a ULM/Microlite registered within the country where it is intended to operate at least most of the year. Buy an aeroplane that thorough research assures a quick sale should it become necessary.
Fl1ingfrog is online now  
Old 13th Oct 2020, 12:11
  #9 (permalink)  
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: France
Age: 57
Posts: 33
Thanks Gyrotyro and Fl1ingfrog, appreciate your comments and definitely along the lines that Iím currently thinking. I will probably have to either purchase a ULM/Microlight that is already registered in France or purchase something such as a Robin or similar that is recognised and conforms the local regulations. Iím finding advice from locals is not that forthcoming ! But Iím going to keep trying !!
Freefly170 is offline  
Old 13th Oct 2020, 15:11
  #10 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: Bressuire
Posts: 279
The benefits of a ULM in France are good and very suited to the weather. The annual maintenance costs in my experience are relatively low at around £500 per year including an inspectors annual fee. A large choice of types with a great short field performance. For the price of a small Robin you can buy a lot of ULM. ULMs are mostly maintenance friendly as most were sold as kits for non professionals. The ULM useful load is of course limited and no flight at night or in IMC. The glass cockpits commonly found in so many ULMs these days are incredible. You don't need expensive STC stuff and can fit it all yourself. These modern navigation units are simple to install and absolutely brilliant. VFR minima is 1500 metres and if you have the skills and are confident to fly in this minima you have a great utility in a ULM. Authority oversite is very light touch in France.

To buy at a comparable cost a C of A aeroplane then your looking at a very old aircraft with a maintenance budget out of your hands. Annual maintenance can easily exceed £3-5,000. You can do very little yourself and so upgrades are always expensive. But most are approved for IMC and night if that's in your hands. Flight throughout the world is always possible and the registration is moveable between counties but beware there are trip hazards.

You could of course buy a permit aircraft, the operation costs are somewhere between a ULM and a C of A aircraft but with in flight limitations similar to a ULM: i.e. no night or IMC, so little benefit there. If your not mechanically minded or don't have the time for maintenance the operating costs can rise substantially. Moving the registration between countries is not always straightford but normally possible without too much pain with a comprehensive paperwork trail.

Last edited by Fl1ingfrog; 13th Oct 2020 at 15:56.
Fl1ingfrog is online now  
Old 15th Oct 2020, 08:15
  #11 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: North of the border
Posts: 184
Just speak to your local DGAC office I am sure they will help.
gyrotyro is offline  

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Do Not Sell My Personal Information -

Copyright © 2018 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.