PPL Schools - South East
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PPL Schools - South East
Hi all - first time poster here in need of a bit of PPL advice.
I was due to start a whitetail integrated course at a 'big' FTO this year, which I have of course put the brakes on due to CV19. I've instead decided to do a Masters degree to further my aviation 'plan B' and buy some time to see where the world/industry is in 16-18 months. I have (or had) a good 3 or so months before starting, and as such was looking to do a relatively intensive PPL as I would love to get some flying in sooner rather than later (and likely complete my training via the modular route), but have been quite disheartened in my search for a suitable school in the south east.
I have enquired at 2 different schools and have been quoted no less than £185p/h dual rate on a C152, with seemingly no discounts available for blocks of x hours at a time. I am not sure if I have underestimated the cost of a PPL, but I had a figure of sub £10k in mind and as such this rate seems very high. Minimum hours at £185p/h already totals near enough £8.5k, not leaving an awful lot for everything else - additional hours, landing fees, club membership, equipment/books, theory exams, skills test, etc.
What was more disappointing was that I really didn't get a good feel whatsoever about either of the places I enquired with. Maybe this could be put down to the wrong person picking the phone up that day, rather than being able to pop in and speak with an instructor face to face, but unfortunately this doesn't seem possible at the moment. They certainly didn't seem to value the potential custom that a PPL (and likely beyond - hour building etc.) would bring and seemingly had better things to be getting on with than answer any questions or queries I had.
As such, I would be extremely grateful if anyone could advise on what I should be aiming to spend on a PPL in 2020 and also recommend a good school within a c. 30 mile radius of North Hants.
Many thanks in advance.
I was due to start a whitetail integrated course at a 'big' FTO this year, which I have of course put the brakes on due to CV19. I've instead decided to do a Masters degree to further my aviation 'plan B' and buy some time to see where the world/industry is in 16-18 months. I have (or had) a good 3 or so months before starting, and as such was looking to do a relatively intensive PPL as I would love to get some flying in sooner rather than later (and likely complete my training via the modular route), but have been quite disheartened in my search for a suitable school in the south east.
I have enquired at 2 different schools and have been quoted no less than £185p/h dual rate on a C152, with seemingly no discounts available for blocks of x hours at a time. I am not sure if I have underestimated the cost of a PPL, but I had a figure of sub £10k in mind and as such this rate seems very high. Minimum hours at £185p/h already totals near enough £8.5k, not leaving an awful lot for everything else - additional hours, landing fees, club membership, equipment/books, theory exams, skills test, etc.
What was more disappointing was that I really didn't get a good feel whatsoever about either of the places I enquired with. Maybe this could be put down to the wrong person picking the phone up that day, rather than being able to pop in and speak with an instructor face to face, but unfortunately this doesn't seem possible at the moment. They certainly didn't seem to value the potential custom that a PPL (and likely beyond - hour building etc.) would bring and seemingly had better things to be getting on with than answer any questions or queries I had.
As such, I would be extremely grateful if anyone could advise on what I should be aiming to spend on a PPL in 2020 and also recommend a good school within a c. 30 mile radius of North Hants.
Many thanks in advance.
Suggest that rather than ask the question again, you browse (or search) some of the previous responses .. maybe starting just a couple of posts below. [personally I fly at Redhill and am very happy there.]
It may depend what you want to do but I have heard that if you intend to get fully trained from ab initio by an airline, that they won't take too kindly to you having got a PPL and (their words not mine) a load of bad habits not in keeping with the airline in question's SOPs and "way of doing stuff".
However after CV-19 who knows what'll happen.
It may depend what you want to do but I have heard that if you intend to get fully trained from ab initio by an airline, that they won't take too kindly to you having got a PPL and (their words not mine) a load of bad habits not in keeping with the airline in question's SOPs and "way of doing stuff".
However after CV-19 who knows what'll happen.
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Suggest that rather than ask the question again, you browse (or search) some of the previous responses .. maybe starting just a couple of posts below. [personally I fly at Redhill and am very happy there.]
It may depend what you want to do but I have heard that if you intend to get fully trained from ab initio by an airline, that they won't take too kindly to you having got a PPL and (their words not mine) a load of bad habits not in keeping with the airline in question's SOPs and "way of doing stuff".
However after CV-19 who knows what'll happen.
It may depend what you want to do but I have heard that if you intend to get fully trained from ab initio by an airline, that they won't take too kindly to you having got a PPL and (their words not mine) a load of bad habits not in keeping with the airline in question's SOPs and "way of doing stuff".
However after CV-19 who knows what'll happen.
Yes that's also a concern of mine, but again based on what I've read on here, the general consensus seems to be that choice of school for PPL alone isn't particularly important in the grand scheme of things, and what's most important is a positive learning environment to nail the basics. Which is also a reason for the post - I didn't get that from either of the places I enquired with!
Most students average 55 to 60 to complete the course. Then there's all the other costs on top. Test fee, radio practical, written exams (soon to be online and more expensive), medical, licence application fee, books, landing fees etc. Around London area fields you're more likely to pay approx £200 per hour. The most important thing is picking the right club or school, not going for the lowest price quote. It doesn't even take the back of an envelope to reach the realistic estimate of £10k to £15k to gain a PPL today.
What Dave said may have been the case with a minority of airlines many years ago. In more recent times, tens of thousands of modular students have managed to get jet jobs. (2020 not withstanding) It's all about the individual, not how they got to the interview. The current Red One got his PPL before joining the RAF.............
What Dave said may have been the case with a minority of airlines many years ago. In more recent times, tens of thousands of modular students have managed to get jet jobs. (2020 not withstanding) It's all about the individual, not how they got to the interview. The current Red One got his PPL before joining the RAF.............
A PPL is 45 hours. If you're doing it correctly that's what it will take, don't aim to be Mr Average.
Best advice: if you're new make sure you have an empty inbox if you message people for advice 👍
Best advice: if you're new make sure you have an empty inbox if you message people for advice 👍
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That's very true and an excellent way of looking at it. I think it's easy to be swayed by the schools which state 'this is minimum time to completion, typically students take x hours'. If it's done properly with good instruction then why should it take longer than necessary.
Also I must not have full private messaging privileges as a new member - I have no messages in my inbox and yet was unable to receive either of your messages. I wasn't aware of this when I messaged you - sorry about that, but your responses are appreciated nonetheless! If there was anything else in them could you please post here?
Thanks a lot mate.
That's very true and an excellent way of looking at it. I think it's easy to be swayed by the schools which state 'this is minimum time to completion, typically students take x hours'. If it's done properly with good instruction then why should it take longer than necessary.
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The course won’t take longer than necessary - it will take as long as necessary which is usually, but not always, more than the minimum hours.
Which is largely why the average is what it is. Of course we've had students who got through in 45 to 50, but also (thankfully) only a few who've taken a 100 or more. The simple "law" of averages.
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I had a truly exceptional student a few years ago who was ready in the minimum time, couldn't teach him anything else, so we did lots of X/C flying to get to 45 hours.. He was a natural, but sadly not many are.
Enjoy the flying, it's not a competition
Enjoy the flying, it's not a competition
I would guess I live in same area as you. When I started my PPL, 16 years ago, I went to Blackbushe, my local airfield. I tried both schools there (both are no longer in existence, so no reflection on current ones), and was not happy with either so ended up at White Waltham, where I completed my PPL in 47 hours total.
WW was a bit more expensive, but I liked their PA28s, and more importantly got paired with a brilliant instructor who was on same wavelength as me, and gave me great confidence. For me, finding somebody I got on well with was, on reflection, the thing which kept me going through some difficult hours when I was having doubts about my ability to get through the course.
There is nothing stopping you trying a few different places before committing to one, all hours count towards your licence.
One word of advice, be wary of paying up front for hours, even in the good times history is littered with failed flight training companies.
Please feel free to message me if you need any more info.
WW was a bit more expensive, but I liked their PA28s, and more importantly got paired with a brilliant instructor who was on same wavelength as me, and gave me great confidence. For me, finding somebody I got on well with was, on reflection, the thing which kept me going through some difficult hours when I was having doubts about my ability to get through the course.
There is nothing stopping you trying a few different places before committing to one, all hours count towards your licence.
One word of advice, be wary of paying up front for hours, even in the good times history is littered with failed flight training companies.
Please feel free to message me if you need any more info.
Just a note on 'average' hours to complete a PPL ( or any module for that matter..) as I know I've made a few sweeping statements!
When I learned to fly I was a cocky prick. I basically got in the plane and expected to be taught how to fly. Spoon fed if you will. I wasn't particularly interested in taking the exams either. With that attitude, you need a lot of luck, natural ability or both to make minimum times.
I have since discovered that actually it is entirely possible to do any module in minimum hours every time:
1... 99% of your learning should not be done in the pilots seat! Learning the POH and checklists is FREE at home. Know them back to front. Take all your exams before you have lessons, get that **** out of the way ASAP and concentrate on learning to fly. When you do start flying, prepare yourself for each lesson by turning up knowing exactly what to do. Which leads to.....
2... Chair flying is FREE. Practice your normal and abnormal procedures sitting in your imaginary airplane until they are second nature. I mean literally 100 times each. If you forget the downwind checks, guess what? You're going to have to fly it again, and that costs money. Do yourself a favour and give yourself every opportunity to get things right first time. How much spare brain capacity do you think you have in your first 50 hours? You'll be struggling to keep straight and level, let alone listen to anything your instructor is trying to teach you. The solution is to pay attention in the brief and essentially know everything before you go flying. The flying is then simply practicing what you already know.
3... Backseating is (virtually) FREE. If you're not doing this (assuming you have 4 seat planes) then you're doing it wrong. I guarantee you'll learn as much in the backseat watching someone else **** it up as you would in the front. Because you have no pressure, you have infinitely more mental capacity than the other guy in the front sweating. Plus it's always easier to get it right when you've watched someone else do it already. If you're not using a 4 seat aircraft for cost reasons, you should consider paying the extra and buddying up with another student to backseat each other. It will save you money!
You'll learn faster, you'll experience twice the number of exercises, twice the radio calls etc.
If you think you can be force-fed a PPL in 45 hours without being extremely lucky or skillful, you're in for an expensive surprise.
But if you spend 45 hours flying a chair, 45 hours in the backseat and 45 hours at the controls (not in that order!) Then you'd have to be pretty unlucky NOT to pass in 45 hours.
When I learned to fly I was a cocky prick. I basically got in the plane and expected to be taught how to fly. Spoon fed if you will. I wasn't particularly interested in taking the exams either. With that attitude, you need a lot of luck, natural ability or both to make minimum times.
I have since discovered that actually it is entirely possible to do any module in minimum hours every time:
1... 99% of your learning should not be done in the pilots seat! Learning the POH and checklists is FREE at home. Know them back to front. Take all your exams before you have lessons, get that **** out of the way ASAP and concentrate on learning to fly. When you do start flying, prepare yourself for each lesson by turning up knowing exactly what to do. Which leads to.....
2... Chair flying is FREE. Practice your normal and abnormal procedures sitting in your imaginary airplane until they are second nature. I mean literally 100 times each. If you forget the downwind checks, guess what? You're going to have to fly it again, and that costs money. Do yourself a favour and give yourself every opportunity to get things right first time. How much spare brain capacity do you think you have in your first 50 hours? You'll be struggling to keep straight and level, let alone listen to anything your instructor is trying to teach you. The solution is to pay attention in the brief and essentially know everything before you go flying. The flying is then simply practicing what you already know.
3... Backseating is (virtually) FREE. If you're not doing this (assuming you have 4 seat planes) then you're doing it wrong. I guarantee you'll learn as much in the backseat watching someone else **** it up as you would in the front. Because you have no pressure, you have infinitely more mental capacity than the other guy in the front sweating. Plus it's always easier to get it right when you've watched someone else do it already. If you're not using a 4 seat aircraft for cost reasons, you should consider paying the extra and buddying up with another student to backseat each other. It will save you money!
You'll learn faster, you'll experience twice the number of exercises, twice the radio calls etc.
If you think you can be force-fed a PPL in 45 hours without being extremely lucky or skillful, you're in for an expensive surprise.
But if you spend 45 hours flying a chair, 45 hours in the backseat and 45 hours at the controls (not in that order!) Then you'd have to be pretty unlucky NOT to pass in 45 hours.
For some people, such as me, only hands on flying has any learning value. Watching an instructor was a waste of time (and my money.)
PS I got my 30 hour PPL in 30 hours, age 23, with solo gliding experience, in 1964, on a Jackeroo at Thruxton, costing £135 including accommodation.
PS I got my 30 hour PPL in 30 hours, age 23, with solo gliding experience, in 1964, on a Jackeroo at Thruxton, costing £135 including accommodation.
