Go Back  PPRuNe Forums > Non-Airline Forums > Private Flying
Reload this Page >

PPL Schools - South East

Private Flying LAA/BMAA/BGA/BPA The sheer pleasure of flight.

PPL Schools - South East

Old 3rd Aug 2020, 01:41
  #1 (permalink)  
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Apr 2020
Location: UK
Posts: 3
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
PPL Schools - South East

Hi all - first time poster here in need of a bit of PPL advice.

I was due to start a whitetail integrated course at a 'big' FTO this year, which I have of course put the brakes on due to CV19. I've instead decided to do a Masters degree to further my aviation 'plan B' and buy some time to see where the world/industry is in 16-18 months. I have (or had) a good 3 or so months before starting, and as such was looking to do a relatively intensive PPL as I would love to get some flying in sooner rather than later (and likely complete my training via the modular route), but have been quite disheartened in my search for a suitable school in the south east.

I have enquired at 2 different schools and have been quoted no less than 185p/h dual rate on a C152, with seemingly no discounts available for blocks of x hours at a time. I am not sure if I have underestimated the cost of a PPL, but I had a figure of sub 10k in mind and as such this rate seems very high. Minimum hours at 185p/h already totals near enough 8.5k, not leaving an awful lot for everything else - additional hours, landing fees, club membership, equipment/books, theory exams, skills test, etc.

What was more disappointing was that I really didn't get a good feel whatsoever about either of the places I enquired with. Maybe this could be put down to the wrong person picking the phone up that day, rather than being able to pop in and speak with an instructor face to face, but unfortunately this doesn't seem possible at the moment. They certainly didn't seem to value the potential custom that a PPL (and likely beyond - hour building etc.) would bring and seemingly had better things to be getting on with than answer any questions or queries I had.

As such, I would be extremely grateful if anyone could advise on what I should be aiming to spend on a PPL in 2020 and also recommend a good school within a c. 30 mile radius of North Hants.

Many thanks in advance.

afctom is offline  
Old 3rd Aug 2020, 13:57
  #2 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Surrey, UK ;
Age: 69
Posts: 1,114
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
Suggest that rather than ask the question again, you browse (or search) some of the previous responses .. maybe starting just a couple of posts below. [personally I fly at Redhill and am very happy there.]

It may depend what you want to do but I have heard that if you intend to get fully trained from ab initio by an airline, that they won't take too kindly to you having got a PPL and (their words not mine) a load of bad habits not in keeping with the airline in question's SOPs and "way of doing stuff".

However after CV-19 who knows what'll happen.
Dave Gittins is offline  
Old 3rd Aug 2020, 14:10
  #3 (permalink)  
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Apr 2020
Location: UK
Posts: 3
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by Dave Gittins View Post
Suggest that rather than ask the question again, you browse (or search) some of the previous responses .. maybe starting just a couple of posts below. [personally I fly at Redhill and am very happy there.]

It may depend what you want to do but I have heard that if you intend to get fully trained from ab initio by an airline, that they won't take too kindly to you having got a PPL and (their words not mine) a load of bad habits not in keeping with the airline in question's SOPs and "way of doing stuff".

However after CV-19 who knows what'll happen.
Thanks Dave. Please be assured that I have spent many hours/days/weeks searching this forum as to hopefully avoid repeating the same questions somebody else has asked. Redhill and Stapleford are 70/90 minute journeys each way respectively so are certainly out of the question for me unfortunately. I really like the look of Stapleford though and have considered their on-site accommodation for an intensive course.

Yes that's also a concern of mine, but again based on what I've read on here, the general consensus seems to be that choice of school for PPL alone isn't particularly important in the grand scheme of things, and what's most important is a positive learning environment to nail the basics. Which is also a reason for the post - I didn't get that from either of the places I enquired with!

afctom is offline  
Old 4th Aug 2020, 08:53
  #4 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Uxbridge
Posts: 857
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Most students average 55 to 60 to complete the course. Then there's all the other costs on top. Test fee, radio practical, written exams (soon to be online and more expensive), medical, licence application fee, books, landing fees etc. Around London area fields you're more likely to pay approx 200 per hour. The most important thing is picking the right club or school, not going for the lowest price quote. It doesn't even take the back of an envelope to reach the realistic estimate of 10k to 15k to gain a PPL today.

What Dave said may have been the case with a minority of airlines many years ago. In more recent times, tens of thousands of modular students have managed to get jet jobs. (2020 not withstanding) It's all about the individual, not how they got to the interview. The current Red One got his PPL before joining the RAF.............
MrAverage is offline  
Old 12th Aug 2020, 12:13
  #5 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Wherever I lay my hat
Posts: 3,494
Likes: 0
Received 2 Likes on 1 Post
A PPL is 45 hours. If you're doing it correctly that's what it will take, don't aim to be Mr Average.

Best advice: if you're new make sure you have an empty inbox if you message people for advice 👍
rudestuff is offline  
Old 12th Aug 2020, 13:15
  #6 (permalink)  
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Apr 2020
Location: UK
Posts: 3
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by rudestuff View Post
A PPL is 45 hours. If you're doing it correctly that's what it will take, don't aim to be Mr Average.

Best advice: if you're new make sure you have an empty inbox if you message people for advice 👍

That's very true and an excellent way of looking at it. I think it's easy to be swayed by the schools which state 'this is minimum time to completion, typically students take x hours'. If it's done properly with good instruction then why should it take longer than necessary.

Also I must not have full private messaging privileges as a new member - I have no messages in my inbox and yet was unable to receive either of your messages. I wasn't aware of this when I messaged you - sorry about that, but your responses are appreciated nonetheless! If there was anything else in them could you please post here?

Thanks a lot mate.
afctom is offline  
Old 12th Aug 2020, 17:15
  #7 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Uxbridge
Posts: 857
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by rudestuff View Post
A PPL is 45 hours. If you're doing it correctly that's what it will take, don't aim to be Mr Average.

Best advice: if you're new make sure you have an empty inbox if you message people for advice 👍
I'm tempted, but I'm not going to bite...........
MrAverage is offline  
Old 12th Aug 2020, 23:13
  #8 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Temporarily Unsure!
Posts: 260
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by afctom View Post
That's very true and an excellent way of looking at it. I think it's easy to be swayed by the schools which state 'this is minimum time to completion, typically students take x hours'. If it's done properly with good instruction then why should it take longer than necessary.
.
It’s only fair to warn that the quoted figure is a minimum and that it will likely take more. At least the student is then forewarned. Even with the best instruction, the weather and other issues outwith the control of the school can disrupt the training. In that case newly learned skills fade very quickly and elements of previous lessons need to be re-taught.

The course won’t take longer than necessary - it will take as long as necessary which is usually, but not always, more than the minimum hours.
rarelyathome is offline  
Old 13th Aug 2020, 09:40
  #9 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Uxbridge
Posts: 857
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Which is largely why the average is what it is. Of course we've had students who got through in 45 to 50, but also (thankfully) only a few who've taken a 100 or more. The simple "law" of averages.
MrAverage is offline  
Old 13th Aug 2020, 09:57
  #10 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: ...back of the drag curve
Age: 59
Posts: 558
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
I had a truly exceptional student a few years ago who was ready in the minimum time, couldn't teach him anything else, so we did lots of X/C flying to get to 45 hours.. He was a natural, but sadly not many are.

Enjoy the flying, it's not a competition
'Chuffer' Dandridge is offline  
Old 13th Aug 2020, 13:50
  #11 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Wherever I lay my hat
Posts: 3,494
Likes: 0
Received 2 Likes on 1 Post
Originally Posted by MrAverage View Post
I'm tempted, but I'm not going to bite...........
Ah I can see what's happened.. I genuinely didn't notice your username there!
rudestuff is offline  
Old 13th Aug 2020, 17:54
  #12 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: SE England
Posts: 66
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
If your anywhere near Lydd you can come and see me tomorrow?
basil faulty is offline  
Old 14th Aug 2020, 09:02
  #13 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Uxbridge
Posts: 857
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Thanks rudestuff, no prob. I'm now really glad I didn't bite. If we ever meet it's my round......
MrAverage is offline  
Old 14th Aug 2020, 11:57
  #14 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: heathrow
Posts: 291
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
I would guess I live in same area as you. When I started my PPL, 16 years ago, I went to Blackbushe, my local airfield. I tried both schools there (both are no longer in existence, so no reflection on current ones), and was not happy with either so ended up at White Waltham, where I completed my PPL in 47 hours total.
WW was a bit more expensive, but I liked their PA28s, and more importantly got paired with a brilliant instructor who was on same wavelength as me, and gave me great confidence. For me, finding somebody I got on well with was, on reflection, the thing which kept me going through some difficult hours when I was having doubts about my ability to get through the course.
There is nothing stopping you trying a few different places before committing to one, all hours count towards your licence.
One word of advice, be wary of paying up front for hours, even in the good times history is littered with failed flight training companies.
Please feel free to message me if you need any more info.
cjhants is offline  
Old 14th Aug 2020, 13:31
  #15 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Wherever I lay my hat
Posts: 3,494
Likes: 0
Received 2 Likes on 1 Post
Just a note on 'average' hours to complete a PPL ( or any module for that matter..) as I know I've made a few sweeping statements!

When I learned to fly I was a cocky prick. I basically got in the plane and expected to be taught how to fly. Spoon fed if you will. I wasn't particularly interested in taking the exams either. With that attitude, you need a lot of luck, natural ability or both to make minimum times.

I have since discovered that actually it is entirely possible to do any module in minimum hours every time:

1... 99% of your learning should not be done in the pilots seat! Learning the POH and checklists is FREE at home. Know them back to front. Take all your exams before you have lessons, get that shit out of the way ASAP and concentrate on learning to fly. When you do start flying, prepare yourself for each lesson by turning up knowing exactly what to do. Which leads to.....

2... Chair flying is FREE. Practice your normal and abnormal procedures sitting in your imaginary airplane until they are second nature. I mean literally 100 times each. If you forget the downwind checks, guess what? You're going to have to fly it again, and that costs money. Do yourself a favour and give yourself every opportunity to get things right first time. How much spare brain capacity do you think you have in your first 50 hours? You'll be struggling to keep straight and level, let alone listen to anything your instructor is trying to teach you. The solution is to pay attention in the brief and essentially know everything before you go flying. The flying is then simply practicing what you already know.

3... Backseating is (virtually) FREE. If you're not doing this (assuming you have 4 seat planes) then you're doing it wrong. I guarantee you'll learn as much in the backseat watching someone else **** it up as you would in the front. Because you have no pressure, you have infinitely more mental capacity than the other guy in the front sweating. Plus it's always easier to get it right when you've watched someone else do it already. If you're not using a 4 seat aircraft for cost reasons, you should consider paying the extra and buddying up with another student to backseat each other. It will save you money!
You'll learn faster, you'll experience twice the number of exercises, twice the radio calls etc.

If you think you can be force-fed a PPL in 45 hours without being extremely lucky or skillful, you're in for an expensive surprise.
But if you spend 45 hours flying a chair, 45 hours in the backseat and 45 hours at the controls (not in that order!) Then you'd have to be pretty unlucky NOT to pass in 45 hours.
rudestuff is offline  
Old 14th Aug 2020, 20:25
  #16 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Moray,Scotland,U.K.
Posts: 1,728
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
For some people, such as me, only hands on flying has any learning value. Watching an instructor was a waste of time (and my money.)
PS I got my 30 hour PPL in 30 hours, age 23, with solo gliding experience, in 1964, on a Jackeroo at Thruxton, costing 135 including accommodation.
Maoraigh1 is offline  

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Do Not Sell or Share My Personal Information

Copyright © 2023 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.