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What is the future of instructing?

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What is the future of instructing?

Old 24th Apr 2020, 09:16
  #21 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Deltasierra010 View Post
In the U.K. the ban on all non “essential” journeys is not quite accurate, you are allowed to go to work if you “need” to, initially the building industry did continue but then the lawyers stopped it for fear of being sued for illness, then the supply industries shut down also. This week there are quite a few companies gearing up a return, due to customer pressure needing goods. It’s the social distancing advice that is going to cause problems and the “furlough” -( time off work on 80% pay), many don’t want to return they are happy doing nothing on 80% pay.

In theory if social distancing can be maintained there is no reason why flying cannot resume along with outdoor sports like golf and cycling, wearing masks would reinforce this change, the problem in the UK is there are not enough masks for the hospitals, never mind the public
In theory yes, that is the common sense approach. But there isn't much common sense around. I believe that pressure is increasing on the Govt every day to ease the lockdown due to the damage being done. People's lives are absolutely important but the biggest damage is being done to the majority by the economic catastrophe enforced upon them which quite frankly makes any virus look piddling in comparison. There has to be a balance struck somewhere. I respect the scientists as they are the experts and I am an ignoramus - the extent of my medical knowledge being 1st Aid - however everyone needs to be listened to and life must go on in some form or another. Life is all about trade-offs.
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Old 24th Apr 2020, 17:08
  #22 (permalink)  
 
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I think it will be the same as always. A shortage of Instructors. Aviation is used to rough cycles.
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Old 24th Apr 2020, 20:09
  #23 (permalink)  
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S Works

I would have thought that if schools/clubs survive, but airlines reduce piloting staff, there would be too many instructors, as redundant airline pilots take up/go back to instructing to enable them to fly?

please correct me if I’m wrong.
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Old 25th Apr 2020, 09:27
  #24 (permalink)  
 
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as redundant airline pilots take up/go back to instructing to enable them to fly?
Most pilots who have had to leave the airlines mid career will need to earn a living, you can't do that instructing.
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Old 25th Apr 2020, 11:54
  #25 (permalink)  
 
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Most airline pilots have long ago let their SEA & instructor ratings lapse.

Airlines are reluctant to let their instructional staff go so the trainers mostly get protected by this when the job cuts come.

A large chunk of the airline pilot population are not very good pilots when it comes to hand flying aircraft, years of de-skilling by over reliance on autoflight have taken there toll. So all in all you are not likely to find many ex-airline pilots that you would wish to be your instructor.

There are exceptions to this rule and they are likely to come from the charter airlines who spent summers flying visual approaches into small Greek islands
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Old 25th Apr 2020, 17:21
  #26 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by A and C View Post
Most airline pilots have long ago let their SEA & instructor ratings lapse.

Airlines are reluctant to let their instructional staff go so the trainers mostly get protected by this when the job cuts come.

A large chunk of the airline pilot population are not very good pilots when it comes to hand flying aircraft, years of de-skilling by over reliance on autoflight have taken there toll. So all in all you are not likely to find many ex-airline pilots that you would wish to be your instructor.

There are exceptions to this rule and they are likely to come from the charter airlines who spent summers flying visual approaches into small Greek islands
There are still airline pilots that own and fly light aircraft. A 777 FO that I know well can fly the pants off most instructors.
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Old 25th Apr 2020, 18:00
  #27 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by white light View Post
S Works

I would have thought that if schools/clubs survive, but airlines reduce piloting staff, there would be too many instructors, as redundant airline pilots take up/go back to instructing to enable them to fly?

please correct me if I’m wrong.
There are not enough Instructors. I am always recruiting. That won’t change.
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Old 26th Apr 2020, 06:44
  #28 (permalink)  
 
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Big Pistons

You are correct there are airline pilots who still fly light aircraft, but very few.

In my experience the number with a valid SEP rating would be less than 1%, in fact the flight crew who have an SEP are probably outnumbered by the cabin crew with a valid SEP rating.

As for those airline pilots with a valid SEP the number with a valid instructor rating is probably going to be in the 10% range.

I should point out that my view is from a European perspective and I am quite well aware that the ability to hand fly an aircraft is still prized on the western side of the Atlantic.

Last edited by A and C; 26th Apr 2020 at 07:53.
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Old 28th Apr 2020, 14:20
  #29 (permalink)  
 
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In England the government have designated construction as an essential industry so there is no restriction on them getting back to work as long as they can fulfill the social distancing requirements.

The reason why many firms shut down at the start was because they could not fulfill the requirements and needed time to work out how they could continue.So they are going back with much altered working methods and revised production plans etc.

These are the guidelines that have been issued, https://www.constructionleadershipco...n-3-published/

However Health and Safety law is still important and if an employer cannot maintain a safe place of work even with taking as many mitigation measures as are practical then they will be failing in their duty under the Health and Safety at Work Act and at risk.

Now some countries around the world don't have such legislation so it is not going to be an issue. In the UK it will be as that is the safety net for every one. Breaching health and safety law is subject to exemplary fines not least because of some severe failures in the past by, yes the construction industry.

These operating procedures are well worth reading to see how they might be adapted in a fight training environment where working in close proximity of others is a similar issue.

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Old 28th Apr 2020, 19:08
  #30 (permalink)  
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.....see how they might be adapted in a fight training environment where working in close proximity of others is a similar issue.
Back to the Tiger Moth - two separate cockpits!
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Old 29th Apr 2020, 07:09
  #31 (permalink)  
 
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Chrisbi

Your elf & safety observations if run to the full fear of the lawyers will cause the death of not only flying instruction but a multitude of other industries and the end of life as we know it, to survive in such an environment is to be a prisoner of paranoia.

Personality I would rather take my chances with covid 19 than live in the dismally safe world the extreme end of the elf & safety industry has planned for us .
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Old 29th Apr 2020, 12:23
  #32 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by S-Works View Post
I think it will be the same as always. A shortage of Instructors
I want to be proved wrong but will there be any students to instruct? The damage to the economy is likely to prevent people being able to take up recreational flying... and anyone considering commencing flying training for a professional career right now surely qualifies to finish lockdown in an asylum!
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Old 29th Apr 2020, 13:43
  #33 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by DaveJ75 View Post
I want to be proved wrong but will there be any students to instruct? The damage to the economy is likely to prevent people being able to take up recreational flying... and anyone considering commencing flying training for a professional career right now surely qualifies to finish lockdown in an asylum!
There will always be intent as long as they have the money. But for a short time, a lot less no doubt.
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Old 2nd May 2020, 09:09
  #34 (permalink)  
 
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Well around this way factories never closed down, neither did the foreign car wash, almost like normal around here.
I think the biggest problem is getting airfields to open. They are on to a good thing. Furlough staff and still get residents to cough up for rent and parking(fair enough) takeoff landing fees(not fair), etc.

I would be quite happy to carry on as normal today.
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Old 2nd May 2020, 17:14
  #35 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by BigEndBob View Post
Well around this way factories never closed down, neither did the foreign car wash, almost like normal around here.
I think the biggest problem is getting airfields to open. They are on to a good thing. Furlough staff and still get residents to cough up for rent and parking(fair enough) takeoff landing fees(not fair), etc.

I would be quite happy to carry on as normal today.
I don't worry too much about GA after all of this. It's more the reliance on the public and business to fund commercial aviation. Maybe GA aircraft purchases are going to tumble and maybe we'll get part shipment issues but I don't see GA suffering too much.
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Old 4th May 2020, 07:13
  #36 (permalink)  
 
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I have no experience of large training setups but knowing the margins that small outfits with 2 or 3 Instructors or even single man operations exist under, then I think only those with enough pupils allready on their books and part way through training have much hope of making it to the second quarter of 2021 which is about a realistic timeframe for starting pupils having the confidence to actually book a course.
The instructors I know in these setups don't make a living from it they have other income streams
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Old 5th May 2020, 21:19
  #37 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Pilot DAR View Post
'Sure will! Where, in past times, I would have bought a ticket for a short haul trip, now I'll be taking my time, and my plane. For my "few hundred miles" travel, the airline I would use has completely stopped flying. I wish them well, but I'll be defaulting now to solo travel where that's practical, for the time to come. I'm very lucky that I can make that choice....
Perhaps time to look around us and not go looking for new adventures? Enjoying what we have and if we are lucky living off the beaten track where this pandemic does not travel quickly.

A friend of mine is a British pilot who has instructed in the Vancouver area for some years on wheels and floats. Back in the UK he will have to pay around £5k to get an instructor licence. At 65 is it worth it for the meagre returns?
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Old 5th May 2020, 23:08
  #38 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by A and C View Post
Most airline pilots have long ago let their SEA & instructor ratings lapse.

Airlines are reluctant to let their instructional staff go so the trainers mostly get protected by this when the job cuts come.

A large chunk of the airline pilot population are not very good pilots when it comes to hand flying aircraft, years of de-skilling by over reliance on autoflight have taken there toll. So all in all you are not likely to find many ex-airline pilots that you would wish to be your instructor.

There are exceptions to this rule and they are likely to come from the charter airlines who spent summers flying visual approaches into small Greek islands

Astonishing statement. Hand-flying jets, which all do, occurs at up to three times the speed of hand-flying pistons. It is simplicity itself for jet pilots to fly today's training aircraft. The reverse does not hold true. Many very good GA instructors could unfortunately not hack complex turboprops or jets.
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Old 6th May 2020, 07:27
  #39 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by DaveJ75 View Post
I want to be proved wrong but will there be any students to instruct? The damage to the economy is likely to prevent people being able to take up recreational flying... and anyone considering commencing flying training for a professional career right now surely qualifies to finish lockdown in an asylum!
We have no shortage of students chasing to find out when they can start training. I have to work out how to finish the ones we have back logged as well.
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Old 6th May 2020, 11:20
  #40 (permalink)  
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It is simplicity itself for jet pilots to fly today's training aircraft.
In flying right seat to jet experienced pilots both for type training, and formal test flights in GA types, this has generally not been my experience. I know that there are pilots who are excellent at crossing aircraft classes, but I never assume that any given pilot has this skill. Sure, the systems management skills are much more complex for jets, so pilots with that skill will surpass a GA pilot in that area. On the other hand, handling a low inertia plane, flying entirely power off approaches, effectively recovering unusual attitudes, judging a non paved surfaces for landing suitability, or flying a deliberately non stabilized approach may not be strengths fresh with jet pilots. Foremost, it has been my frequent observation that most jet pilots I've trained or mentored in GA types, either overlook keeping the ball in the middle, or at best, really have to focus on the task.

I make no assumptions about the skills pilots from other aircraft classes when flying GA with them - good or bad. But, I don't "sit back and relax" either, until I am actually confident in that pilot's skill based upon my observation. A pilot telling me that they have 10,000 hours in a jet does not provide me complete assurance while flying GA with them.
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