What is the future of instructing?
Joined: Feb 2016
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From: Hadley's Hope, LV426
In the U.K. the ban on all non “essential” journeys is not quite accurate, you are allowed to go to work if you “need” to, initially the building industry did continue but then the lawyers stopped it for fear of being sued for illness, then the supply industries shut down also. This week there are quite a few companies gearing up a return, due to customer pressure needing goods. It’s the social distancing advice that is going to cause problems and the “furlough” -( time off work on 80% pay), many don’t want to return they are happy doing nothing on 80% pay.
In theory if social distancing can be maintained there is no reason why flying cannot resume along with outdoor sports like golf and cycling, wearing masks would reinforce this change, the problem in the UK is there are not enough masks for the hospitals, never mind the public
In theory if social distancing can be maintained there is no reason why flying cannot resume along with outdoor sports like golf and cycling, wearing masks would reinforce this change, the problem in the UK is there are not enough masks for the hospitals, never mind the public
Thread Starter
Joined: Apr 2020
Posts: 38
Likes: 3
From: Wrexham
S Works
I would have thought that if schools/clubs survive, but airlines reduce piloting staff, there would be too many instructors, as redundant airline pilots take up/go back to instructing to enable them to fly?
please correct me if I’m wrong.
I would have thought that if schools/clubs survive, but airlines reduce piloting staff, there would be too many instructors, as redundant airline pilots take up/go back to instructing to enable them to fly?
please correct me if I’m wrong.
Joined: Jan 1999
Posts: 6,209
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From: north of barlu
Most airline pilots have long ago let their SEA & instructor ratings lapse.
Airlines are reluctant to let their instructional staff go so the trainers mostly get protected by this when the job cuts come.
A large chunk of the airline pilot population are not very good pilots when it comes to hand flying aircraft, years of de-skilling by over reliance on autoflight have taken there toll. So all in all you are not likely to find many ex-airline pilots that you would wish to be your instructor.
There are exceptions to this rule and they are likely to come from the charter airlines who spent summers flying visual approaches into small Greek islands
Airlines are reluctant to let their instructional staff go so the trainers mostly get protected by this when the job cuts come.
A large chunk of the airline pilot population are not very good pilots when it comes to hand flying aircraft, years of de-skilling by over reliance on autoflight have taken there toll. So all in all you are not likely to find many ex-airline pilots that you would wish to be your instructor.
There are exceptions to this rule and they are likely to come from the charter airlines who spent summers flying visual approaches into small Greek islands
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 5,658
Likes: 501
From: Canada
Most airline pilots have long ago let their SEA & instructor ratings lapse.
Airlines are reluctant to let their instructional staff go so the trainers mostly get protected by this when the job cuts come.
A large chunk of the airline pilot population are not very good pilots when it comes to hand flying aircraft, years of de-skilling by over reliance on autoflight have taken there toll. So all in all you are not likely to find many ex-airline pilots that you would wish to be your instructor.
There are exceptions to this rule and they are likely to come from the charter airlines who spent summers flying visual approaches into small Greek islands
Airlines are reluctant to let their instructional staff go so the trainers mostly get protected by this when the job cuts come.
A large chunk of the airline pilot population are not very good pilots when it comes to hand flying aircraft, years of de-skilling by over reliance on autoflight have taken there toll. So all in all you are not likely to find many ex-airline pilots that you would wish to be your instructor.
There are exceptions to this rule and they are likely to come from the charter airlines who spent summers flying visual approaches into small Greek islands
Joined: Sep 2003
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From: UK,Twighlight Zone
There are not enough Instructors. I am always recruiting. That won’t change.
Joined: Jan 1999
Posts: 6,209
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From: north of barlu
Big Pistons
You are correct there are airline pilots who still fly light aircraft, but very few.
In my experience the number with a valid SEP rating would be less than 1%, in fact the flight crew who have an SEP are probably outnumbered by the cabin crew with a valid SEP rating.
As for those airline pilots with a valid SEP the number with a valid instructor rating is probably going to be in the 10% range.
I should point out that my view is from a European perspective and I am quite well aware that the ability to hand fly an aircraft is still prized on the western side of the Atlantic.
In my experience the number with a valid SEP rating would be less than 1%, in fact the flight crew who have an SEP are probably outnumbered by the cabin crew with a valid SEP rating.
As for those airline pilots with a valid SEP the number with a valid instructor rating is probably going to be in the 10% range.
I should point out that my view is from a European perspective and I am quite well aware that the ability to hand fly an aircraft is still prized on the western side of the Atlantic.
Last edited by A and C; 26th April 2020 at 07:53.
Joined: May 2003
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From: uk
In England the government have designated construction as an essential industry so there is no restriction on them getting back to work as long as they can fulfill the social distancing requirements.
The reason why many firms shut down at the start was because they could not fulfill the requirements and needed time to work out how they could continue.So they are going back with much altered working methods and revised production plans etc.
These are the guidelines that have been issued, https://www.constructionleadershipco...n-3-published/
However Health and Safety law is still important and if an employer cannot maintain a safe place of work even with taking as many mitigation measures as are practical then they will be failing in their duty under the Health and Safety at Work Act and at risk.
Now some countries around the world don't have such legislation so it is not going to be an issue. In the UK it will be as that is the safety net for every one. Breaching health and safety law is subject to exemplary fines not least because of some severe failures in the past by, yes the construction industry.
These operating procedures are well worth reading to see how they might be adapted in a fight training environment where working in close proximity of others is a similar issue.
The reason why many firms shut down at the start was because they could not fulfill the requirements and needed time to work out how they could continue.So they are going back with much altered working methods and revised production plans etc.
These are the guidelines that have been issued, https://www.constructionleadershipco...n-3-published/
However Health and Safety law is still important and if an employer cannot maintain a safe place of work even with taking as many mitigation measures as are practical then they will be failing in their duty under the Health and Safety at Work Act and at risk.
Now some countries around the world don't have such legislation so it is not going to be an issue. In the UK it will be as that is the safety net for every one. Breaching health and safety law is subject to exemplary fines not least because of some severe failures in the past by, yes the construction industry.
These operating procedures are well worth reading to see how they might be adapted in a fight training environment where working in close proximity of others is a similar issue.
Fleet Manager
Joined: Aug 2006
Aviation Qualifications: CPL
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From: Ontario, Canada
.....see how they might be adapted in a fight training environment where working in close proximity of others is a similar issue.
Joined: Jan 1999
Posts: 6,209
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From: north of barlu
Chrisbi
Your elf & safety observations if run to the full fear of the lawyers will cause the death of not only flying instruction but a multitude of other industries and the end of life as we know it, to survive in such an environment is to be a prisoner of paranoia.
Personality I would rather take my chances with covid 19 than live in the dismally safe world the extreme end of the elf & safety industry has planned for us .
Personality I would rather take my chances with covid 19 than live in the dismally safe world the extreme end of the elf & safety industry has planned for us .
Joined: Jun 2019
Posts: 93
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From: Leicester
I want to be proved wrong but will there be any students to instruct? The damage to the economy is likely to prevent people being able to take up recreational flying... and anyone considering commencing flying training for a professional career right now surely qualifies to finish lockdown in an asylum!
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 141
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From: UK
I want to be proved wrong but will there be any students to instruct? The damage to the economy is likely to prevent people being able to take up recreational flying... and anyone considering commencing flying training for a professional career right now surely qualifies to finish lockdown in an asylum!
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 1,092
Likes: 10
From: uk
Well around this way factories never closed down, neither did the foreign car wash, almost like normal around here.
I think the biggest problem is getting airfields to open. They are on to a good thing. Furlough staff and still get residents to cough up for rent and parking(fair enough) takeoff landing fees(not fair), etc.
I would be quite happy to carry on as normal today.
I think the biggest problem is getting airfields to open. They are on to a good thing. Furlough staff and still get residents to cough up for rent and parking(fair enough) takeoff landing fees(not fair), etc.
I would be quite happy to carry on as normal today.
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 141
Likes: 0
From: UK
Well around this way factories never closed down, neither did the foreign car wash, almost like normal around here.
I think the biggest problem is getting airfields to open. They are on to a good thing. Furlough staff and still get residents to cough up for rent and parking(fair enough) takeoff landing fees(not fair), etc.
I would be quite happy to carry on as normal today.
I think the biggest problem is getting airfields to open. They are on to a good thing. Furlough staff and still get residents to cough up for rent and parking(fair enough) takeoff landing fees(not fair), etc.
I would be quite happy to carry on as normal today.
Joined: Feb 2016
Aviation Qualifications: CPL
Posts: 2,037
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From: S.E.Asia
'Sure will! Where, in past times, I would have bought a ticket for a short haul trip, now I'll be taking my time, and my plane. For my "few hundred miles" travel, the airline I would use has completely stopped flying. I wish them well, but I'll be defaulting now to solo travel where that's practical, for the time to come. I'm very lucky that I can make that choice....
A friend of mine is a British pilot who has instructed in the Vancouver area for some years on wheels and floats. Back in the UK he will have to pay around £5k to get an instructor licence. At 65 is it worth it for the meagre returns?
I Have Control
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 51
Likes: 1
From: North-West England
Most airline pilots have long ago let their SEA & instructor ratings lapse.
Airlines are reluctant to let their instructional staff go so the trainers mostly get protected by this when the job cuts come.
A large chunk of the airline pilot population are not very good pilots when it comes to hand flying aircraft, years of de-skilling by over reliance on autoflight have taken there toll. So all in all you are not likely to find many ex-airline pilots that you would wish to be your instructor.
There are exceptions to this rule and they are likely to come from the charter airlines who spent summers flying visual approaches into small Greek islands
Airlines are reluctant to let their instructional staff go so the trainers mostly get protected by this when the job cuts come.
A large chunk of the airline pilot population are not very good pilots when it comes to hand flying aircraft, years of de-skilling by over reliance on autoflight have taken there toll. So all in all you are not likely to find many ex-airline pilots that you would wish to be your instructor.
There are exceptions to this rule and they are likely to come from the charter airlines who spent summers flying visual approaches into small Greek islands
Astonishing statement. Hand-flying jets, which all do, occurs at up to three times the speed of hand-flying pistons. It is simplicity itself for jet pilots to fly today's training aircraft. The reverse does not hold true. Many very good GA instructors could unfortunately not hack complex turboprops or jets.
Joined: Sep 2003
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From: UK,Twighlight Zone
I want to be proved wrong but will there be any students to instruct? The damage to the economy is likely to prevent people being able to take up recreational flying... and anyone considering commencing flying training for a professional career right now surely qualifies to finish lockdown in an asylum!
Fleet Manager
Joined: Aug 2006
Aviation Qualifications: CPL
Posts: 7,089
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From: Ontario, Canada
It is simplicity itself for jet pilots to fly today's training aircraft.
I make no assumptions about the skills pilots from other aircraft classes when flying GA with them - good or bad. But, I don't "sit back and relax" either, until I am actually confident in that pilot's skill based upon my observation. A pilot telling me that they have 10,000 hours in a jet does not provide me complete assurance while flying GA with them.
Thread Starter
Joined: Apr 2020
Posts: 38
Likes: 3
From: Wrexham
Been speaking to a few fellow students & qualified people (by email of course) & it appears most of them are chomping at the bit to go back.
Not too sure how happy instructors are to go back however, they are the ones who would have to spend all day in an aircraft with lots of different people, thus increasing their risk of catching the virus, (with a possible high infectious dose)
As for me, I’m unsure at the moment how I feel about flying again
Not too sure how happy instructors are to go back however, they are the ones who would have to spend all day in an aircraft with lots of different people, thus increasing their risk of catching the virus, (with a possible high infectious dose)
As for me, I’m unsure at the moment how I feel about flying again