Air Conditioning.
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Joined: Dec 2001
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From: www.tiovicente.com
Air Conditioning.
The last few flights that I've done have been a little hot, hence my question.
Isn't it about time that GA manufacturers looked at installing air conditioning in aircraft these days? Apart from some of the bigger and more powerful models it seems that no-one is installing it and I would imagine that in some of the hotter parts of the world it would be a real bonus.
Obviously, there is a decrease in power when it's in operation and it would increase fuel consumption but in some of the more modern aircraft such as Diamond and Cirrus which are fuel efficient and light surely this wouldn't be a problem? Shut the air conditioning off during T/O and Landing for sure but some of the modern Hydrocarbon based systems that are much more efficient would fit the bill.
Any thoughts?
Isn't it about time that GA manufacturers looked at installing air conditioning in aircraft these days? Apart from some of the bigger and more powerful models it seems that no-one is installing it and I would imagine that in some of the hotter parts of the world it would be a real bonus.
Obviously, there is a decrease in power when it's in operation and it would increase fuel consumption but in some of the more modern aircraft such as Diamond and Cirrus which are fuel efficient and light surely this wouldn't be a problem? Shut the air conditioning off during T/O and Landing for sure but some of the modern Hydrocarbon based systems that are much more efficient would fit the bill.
Any thoughts?
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 66
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From: Manchester, England
A/C units ARE fitted to a number of GA aircraft, but usually for those bound for hotter climes than the UK.
I remember an article about some training aircraft supplied to the middle east which had to be upgraded with larger a/c systems, as the ones supplied were allowing the occupants to be gently basted in their own juices.
I remember an article about some training aircraft supplied to the middle east which had to be upgraded with larger a/c systems, as the ones supplied were allowing the occupants to be gently basted in their own juices.
Joined: Oct 1998
Posts: 67
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From: Wessex
I think the answer is the same one for nearly every why are aeroplane systems still stuck in 1970.
Certification costs.
Then you can add extra weight and the fact that nearly all power plants are american and they are probably using refrigerants that are banned in the EU.
Finally I would not want to be sat behind a hydrocarbon filled a/c system even if it was retarded so it didnot explode but just burnt well instead.
Certification costs.
Then you can add extra weight and the fact that nearly all power plants are american and they are probably using refrigerants that are banned in the EU.
Finally I would not want to be sat behind a hydrocarbon filled a/c system even if it was retarded so it didnot explode but just burnt well instead.
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 605
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From: Midlands
Aircon
I tour around France quite a bit in my 2001 Robin Regent. At 25C+ it does get uncomfortably hot in the cockpit.
My latest model does have improved ventilation but still not that good.
I have discussed airconditioning as a retrofit with Robin - they tell me that there are packs available for the 0360. THe downside is certification and - they tell me - 13kg for the entire fit.
Also - take out your wallet and repeat after me - 'help yourself'.
So - in theory it is possible but in practise not.
This is why the French clubs seem to be at their most active in the late afternoon/ evenings.
On another note - how puzzling is it to see aircraft shut up tight out in the blazing sun without even so much as a canopy cover or sun shield to protect the avionics.
I have seen some incredible examples of faded paint, cracked upholstery, melted headsets etc. It must play havoc with the avionics too. I bet the temperatures inside will be really really high.
I carry a full set of Cambrai touring covers with me.
It is surely a false economy not to cover your bird up in the sun.
My latest model does have improved ventilation but still not that good.
I have discussed airconditioning as a retrofit with Robin - they tell me that there are packs available for the 0360. THe downside is certification and - they tell me - 13kg for the entire fit.
Also - take out your wallet and repeat after me - 'help yourself'.
So - in theory it is possible but in practise not.
This is why the French clubs seem to be at their most active in the late afternoon/ evenings.
On another note - how puzzling is it to see aircraft shut up tight out in the blazing sun without even so much as a canopy cover or sun shield to protect the avionics.
I have seen some incredible examples of faded paint, cracked upholstery, melted headsets etc. It must play havoc with the avionics too. I bet the temperatures inside will be really really high.
I carry a full set of Cambrai touring covers with me.
It is surely a false economy not to cover your bird up in the sun.
Thread Starter
Joined: Dec 2001
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From: www.tiovicente.com
A_Pommie.
I take your point about certification but a HC based system using, say Propane (R290) is going to have around 250g due to density differences compared to a HFC system. If you have a leak then you won't get more than a 50% discharge so you are now down to 125g (about 2 cigarette lighters equivalent) which will require an auto ignition temperature of more than 420 C to ignite.
Significantly less than the fuel you are carrying. And not a major hazard in the greater scheme of things.
My point about using a HC was that they are more efficient and can be designed to be smaller in many cases, which is why I asked the question. It just seems to me that with some of the modern Diesel engines being developed it would be nice if we could have A/C in a plane as well.
I take your point about certification but a HC based system using, say Propane (R290) is going to have around 250g due to density differences compared to a HFC system. If you have a leak then you won't get more than a 50% discharge so you are now down to 125g (about 2 cigarette lighters equivalent) which will require an auto ignition temperature of more than 420 C to ignite.
Significantly less than the fuel you are carrying. And not a major hazard in the greater scheme of things.
My point about using a HC was that they are more efficient and can be designed to be smaller in many cases, which is why I asked the question. It just seems to me that with some of the modern Diesel engines being developed it would be nice if we could have A/C in a plane as well.
