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New Farnborough CAS

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New Farnborough CAS

Old 28th Feb 2020, 10:23
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New Farnborough CAS

Nobody on this forum seems to have noticed but Farnborough's new controlled airspace came into effect yesterday 27 Feb affecting operations at Farnborough, Blackbushe, Fairoaks and Odiham (Lasham is outside the airspace).
A new CAA published half mil is available but the new quarter mil will not be out until May apparently.
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Old 28th Feb 2020, 11:06
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Yes I did notice.

The CAA are clearly concerned that it is far too complicated because they have already published two guides ( https://airspacesafety.com/updates/ ) to remind GA pilots of the rules under the heading,
"Preventing airspace infringements in the vicinity of Farnborough Controlled Airspace. This infringement update is intended to follow the format of the narratives focusing on identified infringement ‘hot-spots’ in the UK. It has been written to provide pilots with a comprehensive guide to the Class D and Class E Farnborough controlled airspace which become effective on 27 February 2020 to assist in the prevention of airspace infringements."
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Old 28th Feb 2020, 11:42
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I shall be avoiding the areas concerned for the next few months,seems the prudent thing to do whilst the dust settles.Locally based aircraft do not have that luxury.Over the years I have been a regular visitor to White Waltham and occasionally Blackbushe always using Farnborough west’s services.I do not see how it will all work on very busy days when initial calls cannot be established.I shall watch from afar. Stampe.
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Old 28th Feb 2020, 13:02
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I have been a regular visitor to White Waltham and occasionally Blackbushe always using Farnborough west’s services.I do not see how it will all work on very busy days when initial calls cannot be established. I shall watch from afar. Stampe.
Absolutely- try getting a call into Farnborough on a Summer Sunday afternoon. Is there any beefing up of ATCOs and frequencies at Farnborough to enable separation of zone transit and LARS traffic. Otherwise people may not get the transits they need to get to destination on summer Sundays
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Old 28th Feb 2020, 14:26
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Originally Posted by 22/04 View Post
Absolutely- try getting a call into Farnborough on a Summer Sunday afternoon. Is there any beefing up of ATCOs and frequencies at Farnborough to enable separation of zone transit and LARS traffic. Otherwise people may not get the transits they need to get to destination on summer Sundays
Zone transits will be on a 'new' frequency 133.440 thus relieving pressure on LARS West.
Well that's the theory any way; just wait until they're short of staff and have to 'bandbox' with LARS West or Approach.

Last edited by chevvron; 29th Feb 2020 at 03:46.
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Old 28th Feb 2020, 16:05
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Originally Posted by chevvron View Post
Nobody on this forum seems to have noticed but Farnborough's new controlled airspace came into effect yesterday 27 Feb affecting operations at Farnborough, Blackbushe, Fairoaks and Odiham (Lasham is outside the airspace).
A new CAA published half mil is available but the new quarter mil will not be out until May apparently.
I certainly noticed (it directly affects our operations and I was in the area yesterday but chose to avoid the airspace). But surely re-posting everything on here isn't most working folks' #1 priority.
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Old 28th Feb 2020, 21:12
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I regularly transit the Farnborough overhead - will continue to do so this year and don't expect any trouble. If asked to hold awaiting clearance then a few orbits will hardly affect my flight. If told to remain clear and reroute - guess what - that's exactly what I will do!

Lifes too short to worry about this stuff. Anyway - at 150kts everywhere is "just around the corner"
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Old 1st Mar 2020, 22:40
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re route is precisely the problem that many fear as it will funnel lots of traffic through the Lasham overhead where there is winch wire up to 3000' AGL, up to 200 movements per hour ( yes that is 200 hundred in just one hour) and pretty intense aerobatics at times, along with over 50 gliders local soaring while waiting to set off on cross country. As a glider pilot I will be asking to be inside the airspace where there are almost no aeroplanes as its the safest place to be round there !


bb
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Old 2nd Mar 2020, 09:13
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Yes I know about Lasham. If transits prove to be a problem then I would plan a more westerly route even west of Popham.
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Old 2nd Mar 2020, 19:04
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I
If you are refused a transit through Farnborough Class D ( or any other Class D) report it via the following link
https://apply.caa.co.uk/CAAPortal/se...Code=fcs1521v2
The CAA will be monitoring the new farnborough airspace to see that they fullfill the terms of the ACP
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Old 3rd Mar 2020, 08:15
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I must say, I've never heard anyone complain as much as brits when it comes to controlled airspaces?
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Old 3rd Mar 2020, 13:09
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Originally Posted by jmmoric View Post
I must say, I've never heard anyone complain as much as brits when it comes to controlled airspaces?
Maybe you should take a look at how little uncontrolled airspace is left in some parts of the country before you knock British people.
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Old 3rd Mar 2020, 16:24
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Must admit having just seen the B727 on finals into Lasham an hour ago - when they are on 09 - there is a sky full of gliders and something like a 738/727/A320 is inbound to Lasham on a sunny summer weekend - a few GA pilots might have a bit of fright as the descent from Southampton towards Popham and then the turn into Lasham will be a hive of activity..... Take care!

Last edited by Jetscream 32; 3rd Mar 2020 at 22:23.
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Old 3rd Mar 2020, 17:35
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I must say, I've never heard anyone complain as much as brits when it comes to controlled airspaces?
As I read it, the complaints are not so much about the airspace as such, but rather about the changes to it, and their rapidity, and the perceived lack of consideration and thought and afterthought. My own EBBU biotope is rather complex, too, but has been quite constant for the 15 years or so that I've been aloft - quite doable, but if they start making it a lottery then I'll be screaming, too!
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Old 3rd Mar 2020, 17:37
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the decent from Southampton towards Popham and then the turn into Lasham
Better the decent than the indecent. Sorry, I know it sounds like smartassery but I just couldn't resist for this once...
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Old 5th Mar 2020, 20:48
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Originally Posted by Jetscream 32 View Post
Must admit having just seen the B727 on finals into Lasham an hour ago - when they are on 09 - there is a sky full of gliders and something like a 738/727/A320 is inbound to Lasham on a sunny summer weekend - a few GA pilots might have a bit of fright as the descent from Southampton towards Popham and then the turn into Lasham will be a hive of activity..... Take care!
You saw a non-standard routing for Lasham as the B727 was operating VFR completely off airways which is very unusual. Most arrivals into Lasham will be positioned through Farnborough CAS on a STAR and then onto a visual right hand circuit on the odd occasion 09 is in use. Still a busy area but there is some predictability.

Avoid the immediate Lasham overhead at all costs however....
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Old 5th Mar 2020, 21:18
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Grrr

Originally Posted by Jetscream 32 View Post
Must admit having just seen the B727 on finals into Lasham an hour ago - when they are on 09 - there is a sky full of gliders and something like a 738/727/A320 is inbound to Lasham on a sunny summer weekend - a few GA pilots might have a bit of fright as the descent from Southampton towards Popham and then the turn into Lasham will be a hive of activity..... Take care!
Lasham has had airliners land and depart perfectly safely since the mid 1950s and amazingly, even on busy summer weekends!

Our friendly glider pilots are aware of every movement and kindly remain away from the final approach and missed approach areas.

Southampton toward Popham and then onto 09 final, would be extremely rare. This 727 came virtually direct and via Boscombe LARS from EGGD.

During 2019, 2Excel had 210 commercial movements and none had TCAS RAs or AIRPROX with GA in Class G.

Having provided LARS from a London airport for a number of years, Class G is very much 'keep em' peeled'. Expect the unexpected. That 727 has a perfect right to be in it, as do flexwings or exec jets, GA balloons..........
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Old 5th Mar 2020, 21:50
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Originally Posted by Buster the Bear View Post
That 727 has a perfect right to be in it, as do flexwings or exec jets, GA balloons..........
Hear hear!

That particular flight had departed IFR on an IFR FPL. I find it hard to believe that the crew cancelled IFR. It is extremely unusual to encounter an airliner flying in accordance with the VFR because of flight-deck 'see and avoid' limitations. (The last airliner I encountered flying in accordance with VFR was a Boeing 757 on a maintenance positioning flight during the 2010 Eyjafjallajökull eruption, if only because IFR flight was not permitted at the time)

I am seriously beginning to wonder if some perceive off-airways flights to be 'VFR'. I note that one particular operator files VFR for the Class G portion before joining 'airways', yet departs into solid IMC. We should all know that operating in UK Class G does not mean the operation has to be termed as 'VFR'.

Originally Posted by Jetscream 32 View Post
Must admit having just seen the B727 on finals into Lasham an hour ago - when they are on 09
Oh, and, according to FR24, the 727 which arrived at 1632 on 3rd March landed on Runway 27...

Last edited by Talkdownman; 5th Mar 2020 at 22:01.
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Old 6th Mar 2020, 13:27
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TDM, Is there an IFR let down into Lasham?
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Old 6th Mar 2020, 14:01
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None currently published. IFR flights are limited to visual approaches (where a visual approach is [for those who might not know] an approach by an IFR flight executed with visual reference to terrain)
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