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Aircraft Down North Wales

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Aircraft Down North Wales

Old 27th Nov 2019, 06:44
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I know this area very well; I used to keep my own boat in Beaumaris and I sailed a commercial vessel through the Menai straits many times (and as a student I lived in Penmon!)

The tide rips through the deep water between Anglesey and Puffin Island. Between Puffin Island and Conwy is a vast area of shallow sandbanks without much tide except in the Conwy river channel. North of Anglesey, where the search seems to be focussed, you are back into strong tides close inshore, fierce tidal races off Pt Lynas and Moelfre and deep water. So a complex area to search with many hazards and steep tide gradients which will make a search challenging because a mile or so difference in where and how he entered the water can make a huge difference in where the wreckage ends-up.
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Old 28th Nov 2019, 13:32
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Originally Posted by KelvinD View Post
Given the age of the pilot, is it not possible that he may have had a medical mishap leading to the accident?
I have to agree, that was my thoughts when I heard the age of the pilot. The sudden 1660 ft per min decent kind of suggests he possibly became Incapacitated or even unconscious, if this is proven to be the case, then hopefully he was unconscious before impacting the water. RIP

I'm 71 yrs old and no longer have any desire to fly solo, I usually fly with my wife who is 70, but the chances of us both becoming incapacitated at the same time is pretty remote.


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Old 28th Nov 2019, 22:38
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Damn. Had the pleasure of attending lectures by David on radio navigation at Bangor back around 2000.
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Old 28th Nov 2019, 22:52
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David's website

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Old 29th Nov 2019, 19:47
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The Local Police said that the underwater diving team had been operating on Wednesday and Thursday, although their diving support vessel does not appear on the AIS radar.
Today (Friday.) The Prince Madoc has been doing a systematic grid search all afternoon, and now at 19:30 seems to have selected an area 1000m E.N.E. of the northern tip of Puffin Island, for a more concentrated search.
This area is between 90 and 101 ft deep, and could be where the heavy engine would have sunk.
.
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Old 12th Dec 2019, 14:32
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Looking at marine traffic just now, I see there is a police boat, Cormorant, currently a mile or two to the NE of Puffin Island and apparently stationary.
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Old 13th Dec 2019, 00:21
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They have recovered his body.
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Old 13th Dec 2019, 06:53
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What a very sad coincidence. From that report, it would seem the police were recovering his body at the same time I wrote my post #26.
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Old 30th Oct 2020, 13:24
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The report was published by the AAIB on 29 Oct 20 - very sad reading of a highly-respected Past-President of the Royal Institute of Navigation.
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Old 30th Oct 2020, 16:00
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AAIB report:

https://assets.publishing.service.go...CBXJ_12-20.pdf
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Old 30th Oct 2020, 19:18
  #31 (permalink)  

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The mention of the pilot having previously suffered from an ear, nose and throat illness and then said he had felt strange when a car he was in accelerated is intriguing. This type of illness can take a relatively long time to clear up completely. It seems very possible that he may have suffered from an inner ear/balance issue, especially as he was operating over the sea, where there are fewer visual cues, resulting in disorientation and subsequent loss of control.
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Old 30th Oct 2020, 22:41
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I had a chest infection at the start of the year which led to several extreme asthmatic coughing bouts while out walking up hill and getting a bit out of breath; twice I suddenly felt very dizzy and had to grab hold of something to stop myself collapsing and, while conscious of my surroundings, I just felt as though I was spinning rapidly, presumably a temporary reduction of oxygen in my brain or something. Took several minutes for sense of balance to return after I leaned forward and got my head down a bit - gripping tightly to a fence and a tree. Not something I'd experienced before and I'm glad they happened in relatively safe circumstances!
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Old 31st Oct 2020, 06:32
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Thread drift related to the report. On page 2 there is a footnote:
Aircraft are required to transit the Menai Straits below 1,500 ft on the Holyhead QNH
I didn't think there was any controlled airspace in that area, which seems to be confirmed by this very useful KMZ file from Airspace ? 3D Airspace


So why the imperative "Aircraft are required ..."?



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Old 31st Oct 2020, 09:00
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RAF Valley is a very busy training base - low level high speed jets abound. As a regular in that area I always make sure I'm in contact with Valley Radar and transit Menai below 1500'.
A quick glance upwards, as you pass through the Rnwy 31 centerline, is often instructive
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Old 31st Oct 2020, 13:38
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I'm unclear about the AAIB's reference to the "Holyhead QNH." Do they mean the Holyhead RPS (Regional Pressure Setting) or the Valley QNH?

ETOPS makes a good point about staying below high speed jets inbound to Runway 31, but I suspect that such aircraft would be using the Valley QFE?
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Old 31st Oct 2020, 14:45
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Itís the Holyhead RPS - the RAF use that and QFE. Slightly academic as Valley is just about sea level..
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Old 31st Oct 2020, 15:13
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OK, thanks ETOPS
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Old 31st Oct 2020, 15:19
  #38 (permalink)  
 
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...but not academic if you use the RPS, which could easily put you at 1800' in real terms. Maybe the 1500' takes this into account?

About time to do away with the RPS (and QFE, while we're about it)

TOO
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Old 31st Oct 2020, 15:23
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I appreciate your point ETOPS and if I was flying in that area, I would certainly contact Valley. However, my query was about the use of the word "required" implying that staying below 1500' was mandatory.

PS Let's not start another QFE/QNH debate! At my airfield, you would run out of sub-scale trying to set QFE.
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Old 31st Oct 2020, 17:21
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Originally Posted by India Four Two View Post
However, my query was about the use of the word "required" implying that staying below 1500' was mandatory.
It seems to be an agreement between Caernarfon and Valley, rather than an airspace requirement. I suspect that line of the report was a quote from a Caernarfon respondent rather than produced by the AAIB themselves, given the factual errors (eg Holyhead "QNH").
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