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Since the 8.33 introduction...many probs.

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Since the 8.33 introduction...many probs.

Old 14th Mar 2019, 23:05
  #21 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Down at the sharp pointy end, where all the weather is made.
Age: 70
Posts: 1,440
Hi chevron,
Down our way it's the Senior Service, who may do things differently from their colleagues in pale blue.

Fortunately, they bandbox UHF and VHF controller transmissions, so we can guess when they're talking on UHF i.e. they say something and there's a deafening silence as far as we're concerned, then there's a further transmission. Usually, you can fill in the gaps yourself.

I used to hear 'stud' when getting a 'service' from Benson, so I guess it's a difference between the Services. Occasionally, they'll read out the full UHF frequency, mostly to visiting aircraft flying down from England.

TOO
TheOddOne is offline  
Old 15th Mar 2019, 14:27
  #22 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: River Thames & Surrey
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Originally Posted by TheOddOne View Post
Hi chevron,
Down our way it's the Senior Service, who may do things differently from their colleagues in pale blue.

Fortunately, they bandbox UHF and VHF controller transmissions, so we can guess when they're talking on UHF i.e. they say something and there's a deafening silence as far as we're concerned, then there's a further transmission. Usually, you can fill in the gaps yourself.

I used to hear 'stud' when getting a 'service' from Benson, so I guess it's a difference between the Services. Occasionally, they'll read out the full UHF frequency, mostly to visiting aircraft flying down from England.

TOO
Yes it's only home based aircraft who are given the 'Stud'; visitors will always get the full frequency.
When we used to do Odiham radar and director from Farnborough, we were Odiham's 'Stud 3' whilst Farnborough approach was ( I think) 'Stud 5' to an Odiham aircraft and 'Stud 2' to a Farnborough aircraft.
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Old 15th Mar 2019, 17:07
  #23 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Europe
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When 8.33 was first introduced the 8.33 frequencies were referred to as Channels but this seemed to cause even more confusion and was dropped.
In the marine world there is only a limited number of frequencies around 150 MHz so Channel numbering is convenient however; with 8.33Khz there are theoretically 2940 channels (760 + 2180)
In the main, the military use stud numbers for two purposes, frequencies were programmed to studs on some radios so no need to dial in frequencies, allowing more flexibility and to stop others following them to the next frequency.
Eurocontrol is still referring to channels
Given the difference between 25kHz spaced frequencies and the 8.33kHz channels, it is very important that flight crews understand the correct operation of their radio equipment and tune their radios accordingly. Pilots have to understand the difference between frequencies and channels and they should not attempt to tune their 25kHz radio to match an 8.33kHz channel.
In Class A, Class D and Class G airspace, what is the ratio of UHF frequency notifications to VHF notifications?
There is no ratio, all civil aeronautical communication is VHF. The Military use UHF but when aircraft are operating as civil air traffic they will be talking to civil ATC on VHF. There are military controllers embedded into the civil ATC system and military aircraft on operations may well be talking to RAF controllers on UHF. These controllers look after seperation with civil traffic. On V bombers we flew Navexes that took no account of civil airspace, the military controllers on the ground did all the work. I anticipate its much the same with our fighters today, we don't seem to have bombers any more.
Whopity is offline  
Old 16th Mar 2019, 08:16
  #24 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 1999
Location: north of barlu
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I have a question for those with early Garmin units.

Are you unable to save 8.33 channels in your communications radio memory ?

Can you retrieve 8.33 channels from the airport section of the airport data base and move them to the comm standby window ?
A and C is offline  
Old 16th Mar 2019, 12:58
  #25 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: The World
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Originally Posted by A and C View Post
I have a question for those with early Garmin units.

Are you unable to save 8.33 channels in your communications radio memory ?

Can you retrieve 8.33 channels from the airport section of the airport data base and move them to the comm standby window ?
Garmin is quite clear on it:

Thank you for contacting Garmin Support regarding the issues with your device. Unfortunately, GNS is not able to store 8.33 frequencies in the Navigation Database. I need to explain briefly some technical details regarding Navigation databases to help you understand the root cause of the problem. The original Navigation database format for the GNS series was designed in early 2000 ‘s when 8.33 frequencies were not being used in aviation, nor were there any plans to do so in future. This is why the format of the Navigation database does not allow to code 8.33 frequencies. This could only be achieved by designing new format of the Navigation Database. We call it ADB1 for the old format and ADB2 for the new format. ADB2 increases amount of information associated to each airfield which allows to code 8.33 frequencies as well as additional approaches and more. Sadly, GNS production has been discontinued years before the ADB2 format was created and therefore currently available and certified GNS firmware is not compatible with it. Garmin is monitoring the impact that this is having on our customers, but due to the discontinuation of this product and severity of the firmware changes required, it is unlikely that new software will be released to resolve the issue. Please accept our apologies for the inconvenience caused.
ChickenHouse is offline  
Old 16th Mar 2019, 19:15
  #26 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: on the ground
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Originally Posted by Jan Olieslagers View Post
As I remember, a "channel" as used in marine VHF consists of two frequencies, so that they can have duplex communication, which we poor aviators cannot. Even not in the days of 8,33 kHz
Some marine VHF channels are composed of a pair of frequencies to allow the use of repeaters located on high ground to extend range. Aircraft don't generally need to use repeaters. since you're supposed to already be above the highest ground most of the time!
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Old 16th Mar 2019, 21:46
  #27 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 1999
Location: north of barlu
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Chicken house

thanks for that , it explains a lot.
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