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Since the 8.33 introduction...many probs.

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Since the 8.33 introduction...many probs.

Old 11th Mar 2019, 23:54
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Since the 8.33 introduction...many probs.

I hung up my headset just before 8.33 was introduce...in fact it was one of a number of things that made me decide to reluctantly sell my aeroplane...all to do with expense.

I wonder...since the introduction have there been many operational issues.
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Old 12th Mar 2019, 01:07
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Well lots of people report ongoing Radio problems after expensive refits, so not everyone a happy bunny there. The cost of a full refit really has concentrated the minds of those who only operate privately with low utilisation. With the lack of a large 'World Market' there is no real competition for a simple tray replacement fix. No benefit to GA for the cost involved, and no benefit from a better 'air traffic' service as many 'providers' have a lack of staff to give a service to those who would call up when in transit.
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Old 12th Mar 2019, 02:46
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Biggest problem I have is itís a complete bugger trying to remember a longer string of numbers for local frequencies. 5 digits was fine, 6 is a bridge too far for my wee noggins.
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Old 12th Mar 2019, 11:15
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Both the popular 8.33 12 volt solutions, Trig and Garmin have a memory facility if, like piperboy84 above, you're becoming neuronally challenged. Our Garmin 255 also has 'last 10 used' facility. Also, it has a 'monitor' facility so I can talk on one channel and listen to another, only possible with 2 boxes previously. If you want to talk on the 2nd channel, then just hit the flip-flop button instead of having to reach for the comm panel. I find this so much easier and in fact don't feel the need for our 2nd comm box. We've retained it for the 2nd ILS/VOR function and just have COM tuned to the ATIS. I'm finding new, useful, features in the Garmin all the time. The Trig has a 'last received' button, too; saves those 'say again' moments (and 'was that for us?'!)

All in all, it was an expense, but in our case, rather than making us pack up, it had a positive impact on thinking about our radio stack and how we use it.
Next up, replacing our aged mode 'C' transponder, which is sometimes reported intermittent and is a real pain to use. We're going for a nice push-button solution with ADS-B out and re-positioning it for greater convenience. But then we currently train for the IMC/IR(R) rating as well as ab initio LAPL/PPL so it's all good.

Oh, and actually, there are only 5 digits to remember, not 6. Simply train your brain to eliminate the first '1' as it's the same for all channels and in fact is redundant.

TOO
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Old 12th Mar 2019, 11:18
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Originally Posted by piperboy84 View Post
Biggest problem I have is it’s a complete bugger trying to remember a longer string of numbers for local frequencies. 5 digits was fine, 6 is a bridge too far for my wee noggins.
Don't see why; the last number will always be '0' or '5' same as with 25kHz; the main difference is the 5th number which might be anything. eg Farnborough Tower changed from 122.5 to 122.780
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Old 12th Mar 2019, 11:23
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Originally Posted by TheOddOne View Post
Oh, and actually, there are only 5 digits to remember, not 6. Simply train your brain to eliminate the first '1' as it's the same for all channels and in fact is redundant.
It would help if the initial '1' was eliminated from RT exchanges too - only five figures to listen to and repeat back.
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Old 12th Mar 2019, 18:30
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Originally Posted by Discorde View Post
It would help if the initial '1' was eliminated from RT exchanges too - only five figures to listen to and repeat back.
You forget the military use UHF frequencies starting with 2 or 3 so the 1 is necessary to avoid ambiguity.
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Old 13th Mar 2019, 10:08
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Originally Posted by chevvron View Post
You forget the military use UHF frequencies starting with 2 or 3 so the 1 is necessary to avoid ambiguity.
UHF frequency notifications using civilian ATS facilities could be prefixed by the spoken character 'Uniform'.
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Old 13th Mar 2019, 10:36
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The only issue we've had is people still calling up on the old frequency (3 helicopters straight through the overhead last weekend! Just as well it was too windy to be dropping paras)
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Old 13th Mar 2019, 11:53
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There have been some operational issues:
* communication between 25k COM and 8k33 COM show the expected mismatch, i.e. a 25k COM transmission on FFF.F00 is often unreadable from a 8k33 COM at FFF.F05, although the same physical frequency
* ground stations changing to 8k33 frequencies frequently forget to give notice to FIS, thank to GDPR no automatic notice is given from the ITU authority to AIS and FIS, so fields have to actively give notice
* airfields still struggle with handhelds, forgot to buy 8k33 ones and find out by 'surprise'
* the not synchronized timing on when to go to 8k33 last year was the biggest sh*tty mess I ever saw
* 8k33 radios are usually modern digital devices with a lot of modes, menus, complex usability and not every old fart appears to be capable to deal with
* unpleasant surprise: Garmins older 4xx/5xx 8k33 capable GNSS/NAV/COM cannot store 8k33 frequencies, so the lookup of frequencies from the GPS is broken, wonder what they paid to get a 8k33 radio not capable to store 8k33 frequencies certified, upon complaint they say it is a database issue they are not willing to fix - cut purse behavior, drives more people to Avidyne though
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Old 13th Mar 2019, 13:31
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After reading your post Chickenhouse I have to say....that's more or less what I expected.

I thought to myself...I just cant be bothered with all the hassle...knowing my old and trusty interface/intercom would prob also need changing as plugs connector could be different.

That and lots of other niggles was enough to send me AWOL.

​​​​​P.S. I had a spare 25khz A20 for my aircraft...I kept that...still works a treat as an airband receiver when I want to have a listen...just as sensitive as ever on an external antenna...obviously cant get the new in between frequency's but in my area nobody is using them far as I know.
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Old 13th Mar 2019, 16:43
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unpleasant surprise: Garmins older 4xx/5xx 8k33 capable GNSS/NAV/COM cannot store 8k33 frequencies, so the lookup of frequencies from the GPS is broken, wonder what they paid to get a 8k33 radio not capable to store 8k33 frequencies certified, upon complaint they say it is a database issue they are not willing to fix
Is this applicable to the older sets that have not been upgraded to WAAS status? My 430 stores my local 8.33khz frequencies to the best of my knowledge (although your post will make me check next time out) and I've not seen the issue mentioned before.
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Old 13th Mar 2019, 17:26
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Originally Posted by BoeingBoy View Post
Is this applicable to the older sets that have not been upgraded to WAAS status? My 430 stores my local 8.33khz frequencies to the best of my knowledge (although your post will make me check next time out) and I've not seen the issue mentioned before.
According to telephone support, it is all old boxes and it is not a principal problem, but Garmin simply refusing to upgrade the software according to the supports answer. Try to put a FPL in a late AIRAC cycle and choose an airfield you'll see 'frequencies not available'. Garmin told these boxes are unable to store 8k33.

I only update the 430 once a year, due to VFR only in this aircraft and was absolutely surprised, especially since Jeppesen selling the update confirmed to deliver all data.

The way customer service has been trained to answer will be a significant part of later decisions when repairs occur - I'll most probably will no longer consider staying Garmin, lucky we have choices.

Last edited by ChickenHouse; 13th Mar 2019 at 17:37.
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Old 14th Mar 2019, 09:09
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Originally Posted by Discorde View Post
UHF frequency notifications using civilian ATS facilities could be prefixed by the spoken character 'Uniform'.
Adding 2 extra syllables for the sake of deleting one.
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Old 14th Mar 2019, 09:48
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Locally, the UHF boys and girls routinely say 'contact Tower channel 2 good-day'.

The boating lot seem to use channel numbers, 16 generally and channel 80 if you want fuel at the marina, for instance. I've no idea what these frequencies are and why would it matter?

TOO
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Old 14th Mar 2019, 10:48
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Originally Posted by chevvron View Post
Adding 2 extra syllables for the sake of deleting one.
In non-military airspace, what is the ratio of UHF frequency notifications to VHF notifications?
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Old 14th Mar 2019, 13:14
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I don't think there is such a thing as non-military airspace! I don't know how much use the military make of Class 'A' but they certainly can be found everywhere else.

TOO
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Old 14th Mar 2019, 13:59
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Originally Posted by TheOddOne View Post
I don't think there is such a thing as non-military airspace! I don't know how much use the military make of Class 'A' but they certainly can be found everywhere else.
Amended version:

In Class A, Class D and Class G airspace, what is the ratio of UHF frequency notifications to VHF notifications?
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Old 14th Mar 2019, 15:22
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The boating lot seem to use channel numbers
As I remember, a "channel" as used in marine VHF consists of two frequencies, so that they can have duplex communication, which we poor aviators cannot. Even not in the days of 8,33 kHz
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Old 14th Mar 2019, 18:02
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Originally Posted by TheOddOne View Post
Locally, the UHF boys and girls routinely say 'contact Tower channel 2 good-day'.

The boating lot seem to use channel numbers, 16 generally and channel 80 if you want fuel at the marina, for instance. I've no idea what these frequencies are and why would it matter?

TOO
I doubt if they say 'Channel 2' as this would indicate a common (UK wide) frequency.
At RAF airfields home based aircraft are usually equipped with a radio box containing pre-set frequencies for that airfield referred to as 'Studs'.
'Stud 2' is the normal setting on a home based aircraft's radio for that airfield's approach frequency, Stud 1 being that airfield's tower frequency. At another airfield, Stud 1 and Stud 2 will be entirely different frequencies.
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