Strange attitudes to female pilots.
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This is fascinating!
I see that a number of posts are saying more or less the same thing - that while there may be differences between male and female pilots, overall what counts is an individual's attributes and approach to the job. And that for many of us, there is a sort of higher plane of existence as a pilot.
So with that in mind, I have pulled a quote from another forum and topic because I think it says it all:
"When you become a pilot you join a group of people who enjoy their chosen career or hobby like no other person on earth. Its a passion you can feel and where you see the view change every single moment. When one of us gets cleared to a higher altitude than man could ever hope to fly we all feel that loss. We mourn briefly but choose to remember quickly with a drink and a smile and always remember those who fly with us. I hope those close to this young aviator can feel the spirit that now flies with all of us. We always remember."
This is from Ozbiggles posted on a very tragic and moving topic of the death of a young female Qantas trainee in a two-plane collision on landing at Moorabbin Airport, Melbourne Australia. Forum = Dunnunda & Godzone. Topic = Mb Collision
I think you'll agree with me that these words are deeply moving but also help to explain why, for many of us at least, or for much of the time, the passion of piloting transends the gender thing.
Cheers
I see that a number of posts are saying more or less the same thing - that while there may be differences between male and female pilots, overall what counts is an individual's attributes and approach to the job. And that for many of us, there is a sort of higher plane of existence as a pilot.
So with that in mind, I have pulled a quote from another forum and topic because I think it says it all:
"When you become a pilot you join a group of people who enjoy their chosen career or hobby like no other person on earth. Its a passion you can feel and where you see the view change every single moment. When one of us gets cleared to a higher altitude than man could ever hope to fly we all feel that loss. We mourn briefly but choose to remember quickly with a drink and a smile and always remember those who fly with us. I hope those close to this young aviator can feel the spirit that now flies with all of us. We always remember."
This is from Ozbiggles posted on a very tragic and moving topic of the death of a young female Qantas trainee in a two-plane collision on landing at Moorabbin Airport, Melbourne Australia. Forum = Dunnunda & Godzone. Topic = Mb Collision
I think you'll agree with me that these words are deeply moving but also help to explain why, for many of us at least, or for much of the time, the passion of piloting transends the gender thing.
Cheers
One thing that interests me about this thread, is that many posters, have admitted to being female, I'd noticed their posts before, but nothing in their names or in the contents of their posts to indicate any gender. As somebody said, statistical likelihood tends to make one assume that they were probably male - an evidently incorrect (and of-course, irrelevant) assumption.
At risk of upsetting Whirly's dictat, I saw a study once on parachute accident rates broken down by gender and experience. Female parachutists with little experience tended proportionately to have far more accidents, and more experienced female parachutists - well, never had any accidents. The lecturer blamed it on the relationship between testosterone (or lack thereof) and circumstance - inexperienced males tended to fight to get a result more than females, experienced females just wanted to get it perfect and didn't try to show off, whilst experienced males were routinely playing silly-******s and injuring themselves. By that argument, we should treat inexperienced female pilots as less safe than inexperienced male pilots, and experienced female pilots as better than experienced male pilots. Not sure I want to go down that path, but it's an interesting thought.
There's a poster over on Rotorheads who certainly wouldn't like that approach considering his response to some of Whirly's more recent posts. Given what a prat hes' made of himself in some of them, I'm almost inclined to suggest it be adopted.
G
At risk of upsetting Whirly's dictat, I saw a study once on parachute accident rates broken down by gender and experience. Female parachutists with little experience tended proportionately to have far more accidents, and more experienced female parachutists - well, never had any accidents. The lecturer blamed it on the relationship between testosterone (or lack thereof) and circumstance - inexperienced males tended to fight to get a result more than females, experienced females just wanted to get it perfect and didn't try to show off, whilst experienced males were routinely playing silly-******s and injuring themselves. By that argument, we should treat inexperienced female pilots as less safe than inexperienced male pilots, and experienced female pilots as better than experienced male pilots. Not sure I want to go down that path, but it's an interesting thought.
There's a poster over on Rotorheads who certainly wouldn't like that approach considering his response to some of Whirly's more recent posts. Given what a prat hes' made of himself in some of them, I'm almost inclined to suggest it be adopted.
G
The Original Whirly
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Genghis,
Where, precisely, is the cut-off line between "inexperienced" and "experienced", where we women go from being worst to best?
BTW, I may have gone a little over the top with my "rules" about what you can post on this thread. Please feel free to chat amongst yourselves, about any damn thing you like.
Where, precisely, is the cut-off line between "inexperienced" and "experienced", where we women go from being worst to best?
BTW, I may have gone a little over the top with my "rules" about what you can post on this thread. Please feel free to chat amongst yourselves, about any damn thing you like.
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+Hi folks,
Sorry posing reply under "blokeys" title -not at my own computer. 2 thoughts for you ...... as Captain routing through security at Manchester in full uniform F/O was asked "Where are you going sir" whereas I through the barrier 2 seconds later got "morning luv!"
Also at a recent light aircraft rally based at Cranfield I felt like haveing a T Shirt made up. On the front What? When? Where?
and Who flies it? On the back The type (excuse me not revealing which one) it's age, my current base and ........ me actually. The final question alway being met with a look of suprise and "oh!" (Obviously I should be thin old and of a 1930s (male) body design - as opposed to gorgeously curvaceous, late 30s, and a girlie!)
Seriously professionally I have ben met for the last 13 years (7 in command) with utterly EQUAL treatment whlst in the light aircraft world their is sceptiscm. Only a few more years to go! Like another (99)
Diddly
Sorry posing reply under "blokeys" title -not at my own computer. 2 thoughts for you ...... as Captain routing through security at Manchester in full uniform F/O was asked "Where are you going sir" whereas I through the barrier 2 seconds later got "morning luv!"
Also at a recent light aircraft rally based at Cranfield I felt like haveing a T Shirt made up. On the front What? When? Where?
and Who flies it? On the back The type (excuse me not revealing which one) it's age, my current base and ........ me actually. The final question alway being met with a look of suprise and "oh!" (Obviously I should be thin old and of a 1930s (male) body design - as opposed to gorgeously curvaceous, late 30s, and a girlie!)
Seriously professionally I have ben met for the last 13 years (7 in command) with utterly EQUAL treatment whlst in the light aircraft world their is sceptiscm. Only a few more years to go! Like another (99)
Diddly
Dunno Whirly, probably about CPL level?
Seriously, the concept has primary benefit in annoying chauvanists, and no doubt with a bit of modification, many other 'ists who sorely deserve winding up.
A nice variation, which I've used once or twice, is to explain carefully to a Southern US racist that blacks are genetically superior to US whites since slaves were specifically selected for their strength and intelligence and American whites were the dregs of European society who couldn't cope so ran away. By which argument, the US, and particularly the former slave states, should logically be run by the blacks who will almost certainly do a far better job of it.
Very little credibility to either argument most times, but as an excuse to wind-up biggots, worth having.
Genghis
Male, white, happy to wind up anybody who thinks this is important.
Seriously, the concept has primary benefit in annoying chauvanists, and no doubt with a bit of modification, many other 'ists who sorely deserve winding up.
A nice variation, which I've used once or twice, is to explain carefully to a Southern US racist that blacks are genetically superior to US whites since slaves were specifically selected for their strength and intelligence and American whites were the dregs of European society who couldn't cope so ran away. By which argument, the US, and particularly the former slave states, should logically be run by the blacks who will almost certainly do a far better job of it.
Very little credibility to either argument most times, but as an excuse to wind-up biggots, worth having.
Genghis
Male, white, happy to wind up anybody who thinks this is important.
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Although I am a pilot of the male variety, I quite enjoyed this link:
http://www.skygod.com/quotes/womenfly.html
If this works, it should direct you to the Great Aviation Quotes website which has a female pilot quotes bit to it.
The rest of the site is a real treat as well.
Maarten
http://www.skygod.com/quotes/womenfly.html
If this works, it should direct you to the Great Aviation Quotes website which has a female pilot quotes bit to it.
The rest of the site is a real treat as well.
Maarten
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Diddly,
I'm sure, in the west, that few professional pilots would bat a eyelid at a female colleague, but not sure if the public are the same. I was on a go flight recently and the FO, who was a woman, was doing the cabin talking bit. I was in a party of about 30, and every single one though the voice was a flight attendant. When I said, no that was the pilot, they all said 'well that explains the hard landing'. (I noticed there was a strong wind across the runway, which explained it better to me.) They seem to be little things that expose preconceptions.
The quotation from captsumday reminds me of that Yeats poem about the Irish airman, how does it go? The years to come, a waste of breath, when compared with this life, this death. Or something. I'll have to look it up now!
I'm sure, in the west, that few professional pilots would bat a eyelid at a female colleague, but not sure if the public are the same. I was on a go flight recently and the FO, who was a woman, was doing the cabin talking bit. I was in a party of about 30, and every single one though the voice was a flight attendant. When I said, no that was the pilot, they all said 'well that explains the hard landing'. (I noticed there was a strong wind across the runway, which explained it better to me.) They seem to be little things that expose preconceptions.
The quotation from captsumday reminds me of that Yeats poem about the Irish airman, how does it go? The years to come, a waste of breath, when compared with this life, this death. Or something. I'll have to look it up now!
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An Irish Airman Foresees His Death
I know that I shall meet my fate
Somewhere among the clouds above;
Those that I fight I do not hate,
Those that I guard I do not love;
My country is Kiltartan Cross,
My countrymen Kiltartan's poor,
No likely end could bring them loss
Or leave them happier than before.
Nor law, nor duty bade me fight,
Nor public men, nor cheering crowds,
A lonely impulse of delight
Drove to this tumult in the clouds
I balanced all, brought all to mind,
The years to come seemed waste of breath,
A waste of breath the years behind
In balance with this life, this death.
W B Yeates 1919
Somewhere among the clouds above;
Those that I fight I do not hate,
Those that I guard I do not love;
My country is Kiltartan Cross,
My countrymen Kiltartan's poor,
No likely end could bring them loss
Or leave them happier than before.
Nor law, nor duty bade me fight,
Nor public men, nor cheering crowds,
A lonely impulse of delight
Drove to this tumult in the clouds
I balanced all, brought all to mind,
The years to come seemed waste of breath,
A waste of breath the years behind
In balance with this life, this death.
W B Yeates 1919
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No problem Penquina, Yeates is one of my favourite poets, so I recognised your quote.
So, is this another difference with female pilots. Do more of us like poetry, or are there are few old fashioned romantic males out there?
So, is this another difference with female pilots. Do more of us like poetry, or are there are few old fashioned romantic males out there?
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I read absolutely ages ago the results of a study of accident statistics and gender influence (and cannot remember the source unfortunately - I would love to be able to post it to verify the following). This is a generalisation only.
1. Women are less likely to get into trouble in the first place because they are more likely to follow procedures and less likely to take risks they deem unacceptable.
2. Having got into trouble, men are more likely to make a successful recovery.
Conclusion: depends on individual ability, and works out pretty much even.
1. Women are less likely to get into trouble in the first place because they are more likely to follow procedures and less likely to take risks they deem unacceptable.
2. Having got into trouble, men are more likely to make a successful recovery.
Conclusion: depends on individual ability, and works out pretty much even.
The Original Whirly
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The trouble with almost any of these studies of gender differences is that you get hugely overlapping populations. What that means, to take a very simple example, is that while men tend to be taller than women, you'll find large numbers of both in the middle range. So while it tends to be a fascinating way of getting a grant to spend a few years studying, it doesn't tell you much about individuals, who have an annoying habit of not fitting into neat categories. That applies even more to something as complicated as flying, than it does to simple physical characteristics. And especially to something that can be altered by practice, motivation, learning, experience, and a whole host of other things - you can't alter your height, but you can change your flying ability. So...interesting, perhaps...but only to the psychologists.
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Wide Body
Sorry to read your comments.
I'm a PPL and I respect UK ATPLs per se. In fact I have been fortunate enough to benefit from their experience and advice which has been given freely in every respect.
I had just settled in my seat on a Big Airlines 747 at Cairo last year when the captain made a professional PA to welcome us on board.
Shortly afterwards the two other pax in the middle three seats (females travelling together) had a shocked conversation on the lines of "ohmigod its a woman pilot.")
Talk about shooting your own gender in the foot.
Sorry to read your comments.
I'm a PPL and I respect UK ATPLs per se. In fact I have been fortunate enough to benefit from their experience and advice which has been given freely in every respect.
I had just settled in my seat on a Big Airlines 747 at Cairo last year when the captain made a professional PA to welcome us on board.
Shortly afterwards the two other pax in the middle three seats (females travelling together) had a shocked conversation on the lines of "ohmigod its a woman pilot.")
Talk about shooting your own gender in the foot.
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Still at blokes house - my own body is not too wide - honest
Only negative pax comments in 15 years (3) were all from women!
Oh well just another century might change things.
Only negative pax comments in 15 years (3) were all from women!
Oh well just another century might change things.
